Hi All,
I'm after some advice. 2 weeks ago we did a deal to buy an S-Max on a 56 plate. The car was at another site so we were not able to inspect it. We agreed a price and left a £250 deposit which we were told was refundable. The paperwork however says that it is not refundable.
Having now seen the car it's the most tatty one we have ever seen. Huge stain on the seat, ripped carpet, broken trim, missing parts, scratches etc. The dealer has said they will sort out all of the issues but I really don't want to buy a car that has been so badly cared for.
I want to back out and get my deposit back. I would be happy to buy another car from the dealer. Before I speak to them does anyone have any advice or thoughts?
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/09/2008 at 01:01
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Yes
Car not as advertised, not of merchantable quality, refund my deposit or i sue you in the small claims court
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Walk away from it, if there is so much damage in an almost new car, you can only imagine how it was driven, serviced (or lack of). If they keep the deposit you are still better off than risking this bean can. The trade is at a standstill you will be able to negotiate at least a 250 discount to recoup your loss. A friend of mine is a manager at a large car group, his branch went 17K into the red last month, the whole group were 3 Mil into the red. It's a buyers market, time to squeeze the dealers for a change.
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Direct from the Citizen's Advice Bureau' website
www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_secondhand_cars.pdf
Buying from a dealer - what the law says
If you bought the car from a dealer, the law says the car must:
? match its description. This means it must be as described by the seller. This includes any written description in an advertisement or catalogue; and
? be of satisfactory quality. This means the car must be in reasonable condition, considering its age and make, its past history and the price paid. It must be fit for its purpose (for example, if you request a vehicle which is capable of towing a large caravan, it must be capable of doing the job). It must also be roadworthy. (It is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy car). A car is not roadworthy if its brakes, tyres, steering, or construction make it unfit for the road. Even if the car has an MOT certificate, this doesn't necessarily mean that it is roadworthy.
Suggest you have a good read of the pdf at the above link
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UPDATE:
Spoke to dealer, he said he would speak to the finance director about refunding the deposit. For the moment I've let them hang on to it while they try to find a better condition car for me. At this point I can't fault them, very polite and didn't mind that I rejected the car. The good news is that the dealer called back later to say they had sold the car to someone else and they will try to find me another in the week.
For anyone else thinking of buying an S-max, I have grave concerns over the build quality. Here's the problems we spotted on a 56 with 18k miles:
2-3 inch rip in carpet in front footwell
Centre consol between front seats scratched, probably from something being loaded into it (i.e long bits of wood or such)
A mark on the rear carpet, possibly a burn
choclate on the drivers seat
silver plastic under the 'aircraft style' handbrake badly scratched
stone chip in the centre of the bonnet that showed the white primer underneath (black car)
Backs of the rear seats badly scratched and showing bare metal underneath
3 tyres were brand new - at 18k miles these cars must eat tyres
And my favorite was the huge white stain on one of the back seats, which the dealer conviently left folded flat so it couldnt be seen. This is from a large ford group dealer.
All of the above could be either due to abuse or poor quality, either way I didn't want that car!
Does anyone have any price guides or have ideas on what I should look to pay (from a dealer) for an 07/57 s-max titanium 2.0 diesel?
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The good news is that the dealer called back later to say they had sold the car to someone else >>
So you can get your deposit back no quibble now then.
For anyone else thinking of buying an S-max I have grave concerns over the build quality.
.............
All of the above could be either due to abuse or poor quality>>
All down to abuse IMO, how can a rip in carpet, chocolate on seat, scratches, stone chip and stain on seats be build quality?
And 18k is not too bad for tyres.
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Yes, you are right - mostly abuse and the main reason why I didn't want the car. The car was owned by the dealer from new, I reckon it started life as a demo car and then has been used as either courtesy car or pool car. Either way, its not been cared for.
Classic case of one carful owner, many careless drivers...
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Get the deposit back - you never know when these firms are going to disappear. Many are teetering on the brink.
And, if you didn't do it this time, only ever leave a deposit using a credit card - much easier to get back, and you also have some level of protection even if you buy the car and pay cash for the balance.
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Get the deposit back - you never know when these firms are going to disappear. Many are teetering on the brink.
This is a large ford franchised dealer, according to the sales guy they are very busy - he sold 11 cars on Sunday. But then of course it could be just like the estate agents, apparently they are all really busy as well... Busy despartly trying to flog stuff...
They have a sale on next weekend, desparate attempt to drum up business? To be honest I have no idea if this is normal, or if selling 11 cars in a day is good or bad...
And if you didn't do it this time only ever leave a deposit using a credit card - much easier to get back and you also have some level of protection even if you buy the car and pay cash for the balance.
Good advice - luckly I paid on the card rather than cash or debit.
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All down to abuse IMO how can a rip in carpet chocolate on seat scratches stone chip and stain on seats be build quality?
Something I missed off the list was that the trim on the handbrake lever was also missing. Wether it fell off or was broken off we will never now!
And 18k is not too bad for tyres.
Yes, I suppose so, for fronts anyway. I would of expected the rears to last a bit longer. To me its another sign that the car has had a hard life.
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..or if selling 11 cars in a day is good or bad...
Startlingly good/impossible for one salesmen in a day, particularly Sunday which has limited trading hours.
One order can easily take an hour, especially if there's a demonstration drive to be done, so he must have had the punters lined up one after the other.
Oh, and every punter he spoke to must have signed an order.
Having said that, I've heard retailers say Sunday has now taken over from Saturday as the biggest day of the week, so I suppose a busy showroom could do 11 deals.
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>I would have expected the rears to last a bit longer.<
Until you mentioned that the dealer had owned the car from new, I was going to suggest that the mileage had been adjusted. It also seems unlikely that a gullible buyer has been found as fast as that.
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It's a 1700kg car so bound to be heavy on tyres, particularly if it's carried heavy loads.
The rest of it sounds like abuse/neglect to me. A good reason to walk away from this particular example, but not the S-Max as a whole. I looked around some in a local Ford dealer recently with 10-12,000 miles on them and they still looked brand new, inside and out.
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Glad you got away from that one - it sounds like a complete shed.
I would get your deposit back - there's no guarantee this particular dealer will find a car that meets your expectations.
I was once in a situation like this with a Volvo S60. It was the dealer courtesy car and the salesmen wanted me to put a deposit down sight unseen based on a test drive of a different S60. I was extremely wary of this and refused. I did however go back a few days later to see the actual car and it was disappointing ie not well cared for.
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Thanks to all those who replied.
It was a shame to have to walk away as we have been trying to buy one for about a month now. I find it amazing that we have money in the bank and are actively looking to buy but unable to do so! Many dealers that I spoke to over the phone never bothered to call back, times can't be that hard for them:)
Also a shame to see how badly a car can be treated when it belongs to someone else. I've had the use of pool cars before and have always treated them with respect.
Lesson learned - never, ever put down a deposit on a car that you havn't seen.
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>Many dealers that I spoke to over the phone never bothered to call back,<
This does not surprise me at all. My experience is limited, but I can't recall any occasion when a dealer has called me back after I had suggested it (especially one, after I had bought a car and wanted some after-sales). Perhaps it is to reduce their phone bill? or the assumption that you will call again in case someone else is after the car ...
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I have been in exactly the same situation, bought a car without seeing it based on test drive of similar car and dealers reassurances that the car they would sell to us would be "perfect".
Came to the day and the car was a shed, it was only a few months old and suffered from poor resprays, interior filth and scratches, etc... Dealer agreed it wasn't good enough, obtained *another* model the same and that was rubbish too. We walked away from the deal with the dealer saying our deposit was gone and moaning about being stuck with these two cars, like it was my fault!
A quick letter to the dealer principle soon sorted that problem out and the deposit was quickly returned.
A bit of stress and hassle, but you can get the right result if you persevere.
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Lots of SMAX available here
www.motorpoint.co.uk/(S(u1mf5a4503jloy55i5heau45))/Search/GroupResults.aspx?make=Ford&model=S-max&type=0
Carse
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Thanks for the links guys - very useful
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UPDATE:
First dealer couldn't find another car for us so refunded our deposit. Couldn't fault them at all, very pleasant and would still buy a car from them.
In the meantime we have now found an S-Max at another dealer that is in much better condition - in fact it's like new and I could only find the tinest of scratches on it.
This was a 21k miles example and was still on the original tyres with plenty of tread left - backs up my thoughts that the first had been dirven hard.
Chatting with the dealer it seems like things are slow, but not dire yet. Bigger cars are not shifting at all great deals to had if you only do low miles.
The second dealer sold the car to us at a loss - he was stubborn on the price as they were making no money on it! In fact they were about £800 down on selling it to us. Reason was that they had bought the car 2 months ago - prices have dropped a lot since then. In the end we got a price we were happy with and the dealer shifted a rapidly depreciating asset - everyones happy!
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Do you honestly believe the dealer was losing money on it?
I had a laugh when the dealer I bought my new Clio from said it was a "loss leader" to get people into the showroom, and that he would make £35 profit from the sale!
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>>Do you honestly believe the dealer was losing money on it?
He went and got a large printed report (dot matrix style on folded paper) that showed the details of their stock - including the purchase price. So unless this is some sort of trick that dealers use I believe him.
The car in question had been with them for about 2 months. One of the other guys in the office said they hadn't sold a galaxy or s-max in months - until I bought the s-max, apparently they also sold a galaxy on the same day.
They had another identical s-max but priced £750 more - when I asked why I was told that it was becuase they had paid more for the car - crazy way to value your stock! I said they should have words with whoever is buying their stock!
Given the current market and the fact that the new regs have just come out it makes sense that s-maxs and galaxies have suffered large depreciation over the last few months.
I fully expect to lose £k's on the value of mine over the next year. I reckon if I took it striaght back for a part-x they would offer around £11-12k for it.
This is a large ford franchised delear BTW.
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Fair enough, hope you enjoy it. As for losing £k's....hey, its only money!
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Fair enough hope you enjoy it. As for losing £k's....hey its only money!
The wife is pleased with the car (I am too) so that makes my life easier :) Plan on keeping it for a number of years so the bitter depreciation pill will be swallowed over a number of years.
Anyway, enough chatting on forums, need to get back to work to earn the pennies to pay for it :)
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>Do you honestly believe the dealer was losing money on it? <
It's often hard to tell. All sorts of odd values can be written down for a car taken in as part-ex, to make the transaction look profitable. That in itself may depend on the nominal price for the vehicle it was traded against. There's a lot of flexibility in some dealers' accounting methods.
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sq
Very good point - it's possible that they paid over the odds for it as a part ex to get a sale on a new car.
Sales guy tried to flog GAP insurance to us (no hard sell mind you) and tyre insurance but was not pushy and happy to take no for answer.
At the end of the day I'm happy that we paid a fair price - i.e we didn't get a bargain, but then we were not ripped off either.
Edited by Pugugly on 19/09/2008 at 21:30
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At the end of the day I'm happy that we paid a fair price - i.e we didn't get a bargain but then we were not ripped off either. >>
Wise and sensible words, Moonshine, if I may say so.
It is very possible the dealer lost a few quid.
When I sold Renaults, we over-priced the odd part-exchange.
Put it on the front at a bit more than it should be, and it sticks.
You hope to get a mug, but most punters know what price the car should be and can spot one that's too much.
In the end, the bitter pill has to be swallowed, but as you rightly say, no one gets a bargain.
All that happens is the car is sold at the right price.
Back to your S-Max - best of luck with it.
They're well thought of, so it should do the job.
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Relative of mine is a Renault salesman. He does indeed make peanuts from the sale of a NEW Clio. He makes more from GAP insurance, finance etc. The real commission is on used cars.
Edited by midlifecrisis on 19/09/2008 at 20:26
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