Yes, they are all like this. They are poor quality, badly made, horrible cars which only really survive because fleet managers don't care about fit and finish and continually ordered thousands of the wretched things.
When you change it, buy something slightly older from a reputable manufacturer - you won't find anything but more of the same from people like Vauxhall. They just make cheap rubbish.
You wouldn't buy an Aiwa stereo and expect it to sound like a Bang and Olufsen, would you?
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They just make cheap rubbish.
Oh my aching sides. making cheap rubbish? Forgive me, but I've just read a load of rubbish.
Having owned various Vauxhall's for some 22 years now, on the whole every one I've had has been reliable and only have ever had small niggles. Same applies to all the Vauxhall hire cars I've driven as well. The only time a Vauxhall has seriously let me down so far is through my own fault of friction welding my previous Vectra into the side of a VW Passat.
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I have had the misfortune to drive Vectra, Astra, Meriva and both Corsa C and Corsa D. I stand by my previous post. They all felt poorly built inside with suspiciously nasty plastics used throughout. There was no solid feel of quality build - the Meriva and Corsa were both so bad I genuinelly did think that if I exerted too much pressure on the indicator stalk it would snap off.
If you've owned Vauxhalls for 22 years you've probably not noticed the quality, in perhaps much the same way that Man was very content to use a horse for long distance travel until the train came along.
I'd like to think I'm not being elitist nor looking down on Vauxhall with this opinion because strangely these issues don't seem to have plagued similar Fords. Infact the last Ford I drove, a Mk4 Mondeo, was infact very well built given the type of car it was.
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They all felt poorly built inside with suspiciously nasty plastics used throughout. strangely these issues don't seem to have plagued similar Fords.
I beg to differ. Our 55 reg Ford Focus pool car at work is full of cheap and nasty plastics. The dash digs into the side of my knee and no matter how hard I try, I cannot get comfortable in it. I also find the seats too hard. And don't get me started on the stupid handbrake location.
An equivalent Astra however is likened to slipping on my favourite slippers.
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>> They all felt poorly built inside with suspiciously nasty plastics used throughout. >> strangely these issues don't seem to have plagued similar Fords. I beg to differ. Our 55 reg Ford Focus pool car at work is full of cheap and nasty plastics. The dash digs into the side of my knee and no matter how hard I try I cannot get comfortable in it. I also find the seats too hard. And don't get me started on the stupid handbrake location.
Is *any* of either of your comments at all relevant to a discussion of how solid a car is?
This kind of opinion is the reason VWs aren't as solid as they were 20 years ago. All this pink fluffy dice about "plastics" this and "hard" that?
Who cares about hard plastics for pity's sake?
In answer to the OP, no Vectras aren't "brittle". That said, they're no Honda or Subaru either. That's the choice you take -- reasonable build and cheap parts, or excellent build and expensive parts.
Edited by Webmaster on 22/08/2008 at 02:39
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I beg to differ. Our 55 reg Ford Focus pool ..... An equivalent Astra however is likened to slipping on my favourite slippers.
Dave, do I detect tounge in cheek, if not it is plain blinkered bias, the Astra is a fine car though the concensus is that the Focus is pretty well best in class currently, you can stretch admirable brand loyalty too far perhaps :)
EDIT: Michael R's view is however equally blinkered against Vauxhall.
Edited by cheddar on 22/08/2008 at 08:51
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Dave do I detect tounge in cheek
Cheddar, no not at all. Maybe other Focus's are ok, but not too many people at work have positive comments about the ones we have as pool cars either.
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I beg to differ. Our 55 reg Ford Focus pool car at work is full of cheap and nasty plastics. The dash digs into the side of my knee and no matter how hard I try I cannot get comfortable in it. I also find the seats too hard. And don't get me started on the stupid handbrake location.
What about the Quickclear windscreen, Dave? Good, innit? ;-)
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What about the Quickclear windscreen Dave? Good innit? ;-)
As luck would have it, one of the pool 2 cars doesn't have it. Guess which one I try and book when I need one.
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If you've owned Vauxhalls for 22 years you've probably not noticed the quality in perhaps much the same way that Man was very content to use a horse for long distance travel until the train came along.
:-)) Marvellous!
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I did 188k miles in three Vauxhalls between 93 and 98, the first a Cav was fine, the second a 2.0 Vectra SRi was troublesome and the third a V6 Vectra SRI estate was fun and characterful. The main issue I had was with the dealers, three dealers tried to sort out issues with the 2.0 Vectra, all were incompetant.
BTW Bang and Olufsen is not a good analogy, kind of form over function, looks better than it sounds (though can date quickly) and sounds fine though not as good as something a little more specialist at the same price, and no better than something more mainstream at a lower price. B&O are perhaps the Saab of the Hifi world.
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Small sample taken from www.reliabilityindex.co.uk
tinyurl.com/2yf6zr
(the lower the number, the more reliable reliabilityindex think it is)
AUDI 135.50
BMW 86.10
FORD 70.55
MERCEDES 116.27
VAUXHALL 80.45
VOLKSWAGEN 81.74
Hmmm, interesting that Audi, VW, BMW & Mercedes all have higher numbers than Vauxhall.
Can you define what you mean by a reputable manufacturer?
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Nope, that is a "cost to run" index.
There'd be something *seriously* wrong if Vaux/Ford didn't do well in that survey, given the parts costs.
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My Vec C was a paragon of reliability and was very well made. Excellent on the m/way. The work cars stood up to the daily battering (both mechanical and trim) far better than our equivalent BMWs/Volvos.
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There'd be something *seriously* wrong if Vaux/Ford didn't do well in that survey given the parts costs.
You can take out the parts costs, look at days of road, % faults etc.
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We have one in the family at the moment. A Corsa D which at 10 months old is doing fine.
Daughter's Corsa C bought new went 2 months ago after 4 years. Only failures one crank position sensor and one alarm unit (battery goes). It was a low milage (Misused) car. Replaced by a Fiesta which feels much better but is a more recent design.
Son's Corsa C bought used at 1 year old also went in April - Nothing failed in 4 years.
The experience of the two Corsa Cs was a influence in the decision to buy the D, with the experience we have had you cannot complain. - Overall the same number of failures per year (but not per mile) than I had in the Honda Accord and less than the VW that preceded it.
So Vauxhall can't be too bad.
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MichaelR, do you have an "inside track" at GM Europe? If so, your comments are dynamite. Perhaps you could fly over to Russelsheim again with a secret camera and expose once and for all how incompetant their engineering staff are. Rumour has it they are still using drawing boards and the wet finger technique. I also heard that most of the engineers have a pin up of BMW headquarters on their shed walls. Still, if they had spent more time at school maybe they would be as good as they guys that work at BMW. They shouldnt of flunked the interview should they?
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I think a family should be able to run any car for 5yrs and normal mileage and not do anything other than routine servicing, and maybe consumable items like tyres and perhaps a set of brake pads.
I'm really unhappy that daughters 33K mile SEAT Ibiza needed over £200 of work to get it through its 4yr MOT.
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I've had mixed luck with Vuaxhalls, have owned three, two were great but the middle one (a Vectra!) was a dog engine-wise but fine other than that - it was replaced by a Skoda which ran for 6 years with one fault during that time (and it didn't stop the car), so I'm now on my second Skoda....
Not sure what that tells you all, though! :-)
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My experience with later Vauxhalls is limited to a stint in an Astra G 1.6 LS as a temporary company car for a few months. It wasn't the last word in excitement, but nothing broke or fell off in 3 months and 8,000 miles of hard use, and the engine was gutsy for its size. I thought it was a good all round car.
That said I would be mortified if a car failed its first MOT. Even our Scenic, which the doom mongers say is designed to fall apart after three years sailed its first at 50,000 miles, with only an advisory on a rear tyre (which I knew about), and a cracked rear exhaust heat shield (stone damage - which I didn't).
I've always thought Vauxhalls were well screwed together. OK, maybe not to BMW standards, but then they aren't priced at BMW standards either.
One of our subsidiary company's "standard issue" company car is the Vectra G, and they've been well pleased with them overall. Few significant faults despite many being well into six figure mileages when moved on at three years old.
The 80's and early 90's Vauxhalls (which I've owned many of) were bombproof cars that went like stink, and were known for soaking up miles without falling apart. I still rate my old mk2 Cavalier SRi as one of the best cars I've ever had. I beat the living daylights out of it, and the only thing that ever went wrong was the fuel pump relay. Even that was, I suspect, caused by a dodgy immobiliser installation.
Edited by DP on 22/08/2008 at 10:37
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The OP reminds me of a B reg Astra mk2 I had. Nice engine but the build quality was the worst I've ever experienced. I had to have the rear coil springs replaced and the interior door handles in the back would come off in your hand. My motivation to buy it at the time was that it had a 5 speed gearbox but ironically was less relaxed on the motorway than the 4 speed Cavalier I swapped it for.
I haven't had a Vauxhall since so I can't comment on current quality, though the Astra looks nice.
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You can take out the parts costs look at days of road % faults etc.
Time off road: Ford and Vauxhall no better than average, beaten by most Japanese and Korean competition.
% Faults: Fairly meaningless statistic -- it's % of the number of faults for that mark in a given category (add up all the percentages and you get a little short of 100% in each case).
W*** C** used to quote these figures along with a "% of cars that needed to be fixed" which was an eye opener. The like of Honda and Subaru would be sat on something like 7-10%, whereas Jeeps and Citroens were often as high as 40%.
Forget parts costs, give me the Honda if there's that much of a discrepancy!!!
In that kind of report Vaux/Ford used to come out at typically around 20-25%, absolutely down the middle of the scale and behind most Korean and Japanese manufacturers.
So, average then.
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Aha, it's still there.
Interesting reading.
Honda 1 in 10 chance of your car breaking in a year.
Ford 1 in 4
Vauxhall 3 in 10 -- same as Fiat...
Citroen 42%
BMW not great -- worse than Ford.
The "mighty" Skoda 1 in 3, worse than VW. Food for thought.
But, (drum roll)...
Alfa GTV 97% chance of failure. What they're pretty much saying is that if you buy a GTV it WILL break. Regularly. Unreal.
Pinch of salt with some of those figures but the mainstream ones I think can be trusted.
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Small sample taken from www.reliabilityindex.co.uk tinyurl.com/2yf6zr (the lower the number the more reliable reliabilityindex think it is)
Reliability Index is calculated based on the COST to run the car in terms of repairs.
BMW 86.10 FORD 70.55 VAUXHALL 80.45
Can you define what you mean by a reputable manufacturer?
Certainly - as you can see, the Ford is cheaper to run repair wise. Infact, the Vauxhall is only just cheaper than BMW - a producer of far more expensive, far more complicated cars with considerably more expensive dealer networks. It should be noticeably cheaper, not almost the same.
So, Ford seem to have it nailed. BMW's figure is inflated because of the high cost of repairing a BMW.
Whats Vauxhalls excuse?
You also appear to be under the misapprehension that mechanical reliability is linked to interior build quality. A car can be effortlessly reliable whilst filled with cheap, nasty, brittle, horrible plastics and bits of trim that rattle. See: Mid 90's Japanese cars.
Edited by MichaelR on 22/08/2008 at 11:47
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>You wouldn't buy an Aiwa stereo and expect it to sound like a Bang and Olufsen, would you?<
Well, I certainly would have once. Aiwa, although a subsidiary of Sony, once made the best tape decks and receivers you could buy. I still use both, although they are now 20-odd years old, and they sound excellent. Nowadays, no doubt, Aiwa products are made down to a price.
Bang and Olufsen, although admirably put together and styled, was mostly badge-engineered Philips (the televisions, anyway).
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>>with considerably more expensive dealer networks
Well that's well worth paying for, isn't it Michael. If you're running an old banger of a BMW, like you do, that's worth 50p as you pointed out, then it seems a bit rum to pay extra for your brake pads because the dealer network contains more silly boys in shiny suits and brylcream...
Seriously, my 67k 1999 Vectra B (which I inherited from my father who had it from 6 months old) has never needed anything for an MOT.
In nearly four years' of my ownership it has had a new £400 cylinder head owing to failure of a 5p piece of plastic...; a new alternator; a new exhaust back box and some tyres. It misfires a little sometimes, but has done for 30k miles and 4 years. My father never spent any money on it save for tyres. Oh yes, and I'm too stingy to pay £200 to fix the aircon.
Does this back up OP's post, or go against it? It's been pretty cheap motoring for me.
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>>with considerably more expensive dealer networks Well that's well worth paying for isn't it Michael. If you're running an old banger of a BMW like you do that's worth 50p as you pointed out then it seems a bit rum to pay extra for your brake pads because the dealer network contains more silly boys in shiny suits and brylcream...
We were discussing the Warranty Direct Reliability index scores. These are not calculated on how much MichaelR pays to service his 'old banger'. Therefore the BMW Main dealer costs DO figure into the index. WD allow you to have your car repaired at a main dealer - and it's the costs they incur which go into working out each marques reliability index. So my point was correct.
As for me, I'm not entirely sure where your point is really, is a 2002 5 Series really an old banger these days? I wish I'd paid old banger prices for it, of course it's not worth 50p, thats merely my standard fit sarcastic retort as to the state of the used car market for big engined cars these days. It's worth a damn sight more than 50p but not as much as it would have been had the VED onslaught not hit it. I could have had a new Vauxhall for less than I paid for it ;)
One day I guess the Vauxhall owners will upgrade - you'll then get my point. Until then I fear you won't, just like I used to think my Citroen Xantia was the last word in build quality and refinement until I drove something better. I do hope I don't come across as being a badge snob because I'm not, it was infact others who brought BMW into this particular party.
For the record, I'd take an equivilent Skoda, Honda, Ford or even a VW over virtually anything Vauxhall make. Bar the VX220, Monaro or VXR8 of course but then as is usually the case, the only decent Vauxhalls are the ones they simply put their badge on and let others do the work.
Edited by MichaelR on 22/08/2008 at 12:52
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"I do hope I don't come across as being a badge snob" .... I think that's exactly how you come across. You clearly don't like Vauxhall so let's leave it at that. Vauxhall's products clearly appeal to quite a few buyers in the UK, both private & business, so they won't worry too much about your opinion.
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"I do hope I don't come across as being a badge snob" .... I think that's exactly how you come across. You clearly don't like Vauxhall
True, I don't. But I don't like them through an entirely rational thought process arrived at by driving various models they make. It isn't a knee-jerk thing.
If it was snobbery I'd have similar contempt for Skoda, Ford et al. I do not. Every Vauxhall I have driven has had significant failings. The Corsa D wasn't THAT badly built, actually, but.. it was incapable of moving under its own power.
Vauxhall's products clearly appeal to quite a few buyers in the UK both private & business so they won't worry too much about your opinion.
You don't really get the whole 'Discussion' concept do you?
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MichaelR
I'm very much afraid that you do come across as a badge snob. Bringing B&O into the argument doesn't help (triumph of form over function). I think the theme of a lot of your posts on HJ Forum is that only BMW is any good, and only with 3.0 engine, at that.
I had a Cavalier MkIII SRI years ago and it was fine. Did 120k+ with only regular servicing and a couple of driveshaft gaiters.
I have rental cars for work trips. We get Astras, Vectra, Focus and Mondeo. I wouldn't buy any of them myself, I much prefer Subaru, but they are all decent enough cars. We had a Vectra rental car for hols in Austria, had it two weeks and it was absolutely fine. General standard of trim was good and it was a quiet cruiser. Going off on a rant and using words like 'rubbish' and 'upgrade' just makes yourself look foolish.
As to BMW, I had an early BMW 5 series E39. It was generally a good car, but the dealer experience was bad. They are OK on basic servicing, but if you need them to do any fault-finding the costs climb VERY rapidly. Mine had two faults that need them to fix, a mystery battery drain (turned out to be a relay) and a hunting idle. Both cost over £200 each just for them to fault find. The idle problem was never properly fixed.
Incidentally, a 2002 BMW is getting a bit old now. They are popping up on the council estates at this age. To have any credibility in 'Lane 3' or with a dealer a BMW needs to be 3 years old or less. Once mine was out of warranty I got the definite impression that they would have preferred me to park it 'around the back' rather than in the bays in front of the showroom!
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Yup, MichaelR your BMW is probably worth about 3,500 if you're lucky. For a car that would barely be able to read and write if it were a child, that's quite impressive for something that started life as the price of a street of council houses in Liverpool. You cannot get a new Daewoo for that sort of money.
I have no affection for my Vauxhall. My previous car was an Audi, the two before that Mercs; for those I did have affection. Do I care....??? Only a little. And I don't spend hours "detailing" it. ;)
Ironically the Vectra was the most expensive.
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Im not Vauxhall fan let it be known but I feel I should stick up for them a little.
The current Astra is finished with very fast wearing interior trim, i loath cleaning them aswell becuase they take far longer than most.
But that said, I clean a current Vectra which has excellent carpets ( unlike previous models ) and the general quality is a million times better than the previous generation.
I also clean a Signum diesel, which replaced an AUDI and the owner rates it as a nicer car, not to mention 5 grand cheaper. The interior in that is very nice too and it seems very well screwed together.
I wouldnt say they are brittle, but the quality does certainly go up the more you spend it would seem.
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Yup MichaelR your BMW is probably worth about 3 500 if you're lucky.
I'd hate to guess with the current market for large engined cars, it's academic as I've no inention of selling it, but even with that value its quite far from a 'banger'. To me, a 'banger' is a sub £1k-£500 car with bits hanging off it. I'd not even class that other chaps 99 Vectra as a banger quite yet.
Whatever its value, it's worth more to me than anyone else which is why its unlikely I will sell it in the medium term.
I still don't understand how my hatred of Vauxhall can be classed as badge snobbery. If I was poncing around arguingt hat all cars of that type were crud then perhaps - but I've openly admitted I'd chose a Ford, Skoda, etc etc all of which are on a par with Vauxhall in the image stakes. Badge snobs would never chose Ford or Skoda.
My dislike of Vauxhall is formed through driving their products and disliking every one for a plethora of reasons, chiefly the really nasty feel of the interiors. If the badge on the front had said Bentley yet I'd had the same feelings nobody would be calling me a badge snob. It's nothing to do with badge snobbery.
FWIW I do not own a home stereo system and merely plucked B&O out of the air to illustrate a point more than anything.
Edited by MichaelR on 22/08/2008 at 20:06
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the only decent Vauxhalls are the ones they simply put their badge on and let others do the work.
That's all of them then isn't it?
Maybe, just maybe the Astra is a genuine Vauxhall.
The rest of them are Holdens, Daewoos, Suzukis or Opels.
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Going back to the OP it sounds like his car is the exception as opposed to the rule. I've generally been very pleased with my Vectra C especially with the fit and finish.
It seems (to me) to be well built with quality materials. Indeed the chap responsible for the design of most of the current range of Opel/Vauxhalls was ex-Porsche and Audi (he now works for Ford). He, no doubt, would have been tasked with giving the cars more of a quality feel, which I feel has been achieved.
I also drove an 05 Corsa 1.2 Twinport as a loaner once and whilst the plastics etc were of a lesser quality it was a great little car that was also well screwed together.
Edited by Marc on 22/08/2008 at 18:50
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And a quality feel maps to quality suspension and exhaust mountings how exactly?
This is the B&O effect at work. "Ooh look, doesn't that look/feel nice", when all along it's just another badly-made pile of Philips junk under the skin.
Meanwhile the beautifully-made but dull TEAC or Arcam in the corner is ignored.
Edited by jase1 on 22/08/2008 at 19:12
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"And a quality feel maps to quality suspension and exhaust mountings how exactly?"
As I said I feel the OPs car is the exception rather than the rule.
I don't believe that these two issues are indicative of the model - based on my own experience (65k and owned since Jan 04) and that of the majority of owners on vectra-c.com. And plenty of owners on there are more than happy to discuss faults as and when they arise.
If the OP had said failed handbrake and misted up front fogs then yes, they are faults associated with this car.
Oh and I would take a TEAC over a "Beocentre" any day of the week!
Edited by Marc on 22/08/2008 at 20:38
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Fascinating read
But someone above asked if anyone really owned a Vectra V6.
I do. And I'm reasonably happy with it, but for comfort I preferred the Omega that preceded it. It's really very quick, easily reaching 150+mph briefly last weekend on the autobahn (yes, I know, I'm lucky to be alive...)
Thanks for the reminder that it's due it's MOT sometime soon, so I may join the thread properly after that!!
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My sister in law had one of the first Corsa GSI 16v's on an L reg which she bought at 3 months old (ex demo). Quick and good looking, but it was a total dog - terribly built, endless electrical and engine management faults, one of the latter resulting in her trading the car prematurely a year later because nobody could fix it.
Yet I know other people who've had Corsas of the same year which have been fine. My Vauxhalls were all good, as were those of friends and the aforementioned company fleet of our subsidiary company (they've had Vectras for about 10 years).
I think all makes suffer from "Friday afternoon" syndrome. I wonder if the OP just got unlucky.
Cheers
DP
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The 3.2 V6 is super engine. I've driven many thousands of miles in them under extreme conditions and they rarely break.
I'd have one myself if it wasn't for the running costs.
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It looks like Michael needs some back up so here I am!
Hello everyone! Hope you are all keeping well. Having a quiet (a very!) quiet week at work is dangerous - I'm afraid I have to poke my nose in now!
You might be wondering why I'm qualified to post in this thread and well, I'm ashamed to say that in a moment of desperation, last December I purchased a 2004 Vauxhall Vectra and I can quite honestly state, it was probably the worst mistake I have ever made. Definitely up there with sticking my head in the oven to see if it was lit....but probably not as bad as driving a van under a bridge that was...well...lower than the van. (Long story).
Aaaaanyway, as you may remember, I finally realised my dream of a big V6 which, even though it fell to pieces around my ears, I loved. Unfortunately, a gearbox problem (it was going to fail at any point) forced me to get rid, take a massive loss and made me buy a "sensible" car as a matter of urgency. Quick word of advice to anyone as stupid as me - don't buy a car in desperation.
So, I got offered the least insulting part ex offer (although that isn't saying much) against a 2004 1.8 Vauxhall Vectra Elegance with a mere 20k miles on the clock - I needed to start saving some serious money!
Disappointment set in pretty much the weekend after I got the car. Yes it was nice and newish (04 is new to me!) but what a horrible car to drive. The gearbox feels so imprecise, the clutch judders when wet (a "feature" of all 1.8 Vectra apparently), the car scratches even if you look at it funny, and the engine...how could something with nearly 10 more bhp than my previous, previous car feel so underpowered?
Despite all this, I kept telling myself that such a frugal car would save me a fortune in petrol and insurance so I plodded on. Until the oil like came on in the Mersey Tunnel one night. "That's odd" I thought - "I've only had it 2 weeks and it was serviced when I bought it". Pulled over as soon as possible - dipstick out - dry as a bone. Marvellous. Back to the garage who tried to tell me that what I saw wasn't the oil light as it was full of oil. I proceeded to point out to the guy that where I come from, pictures of oil cans with a ruler next to them and drops coming out of it flashing at you means low on oil. They maintained nothing was wrong so off I went. Two days later, oil light. Topped up with oil. Two days later, oil light. By this point, the tiniest (tiniest of tinest) of possibilities that there was something wrong began to dawn on me. I was buying a can of oil every week. Into the garage it went.
"Ooooooh - your piston rings have gone there mate - fallen to pieces. Needs a new head and new pistons - need ordering in from Germany." Now I don't mind admitting to you, I was pretty upset at this point - but obviously the only option was to fix it. So, £1200 later, back on the road. Everything ok...UNTIL,
I'm driving along one day when the rear view mirror decides it's had enough of it's partnership with the windscreen and likes my forehead instead - all this as I'm rounding a bend....SMACK! Right in the kisser. Couldn't detach it from some stupid wire it was hanging by (presumably for the rain sensor that they put on to fool you into thinking you're driving something half decent) so had to drive around with an oversized mirror swinging around and a bruised forehead. Got that fixed but the car hadn't finished with me yet - oh no. Walking up to it to get in one day, press the unlock button on the key whereupon the button completely COLLAPSES into the key. Open the door with the key (a novel idea) and then the alarm decides to go off! Over to the spare key and away I go...again.
THEN, I get home one day, hear a hissing only to find a rusty blade in the rear tyre. Ok, not the car's fault. Jack it up, try to get the wheel off. Nothing. Try again, nothing. Hit it with a mallet, nothing. A neighbour takes pity on me and comes to help and he can't get it off either. Dad comes home and all three of us try - will it budge? Ohhhh no! Then of course, the jack decides it's had enough and collapses. Fortunately, seeing how weak it looked, I'd pre-empted this viscious little trick and put Mum and Dad's spare wheels under the car. So now I'm stuck with a car that's immovable. I get a very friendly tyre place out with truck jacks and bigger mallets than mine who (just about) manage to remove the wheel. One new tyre later, back on the road.
What else...oh yes - the stereo is dire. Even with the bass on maximum it sounds like I'm listening to a shipping report from 1942. The electrical system is presumably powered by an AA battery as everything gets brighter and faster when you rev the engine. There is a very annoying rattle coming from some indeterminate location, the gearchanges feel like I'm stirring a box of broken bricks, the interior door handles are pitted and scratched already, the boot release works on some days but not others (haven't worked out the pattern yet), there's a horrible flat spot over 3,000 revs that occurs just as place yourself into danger (i.e. - in front of a truck) and...oh yeah, someone smashed my wing mirror off!
Good points.....
....it looks half decent when clean and the seats are quite comfy.
And before anyone says I've got a Friday afternoon car, well, clearly I have. But i have driven other Vectras (to see if there was anything badly wrong with mine) and all seem to have equally horrible gearboxes and clutches which destroy the experience. I know some people will be reading this thinking "What is that lad on - my Vectra is the best car I've ever owned". Well, how you feel about your Vectra is how I feel about my Focus. Speaking of which, selling that car was the worst mistake I've ever made. I actually went back to a Ford dealer to see if I could part ex mine against an older Focus (a 52 plate) but I'd lose so much money on it I'm just going to have to put up with it.
So, what am I trying to say? I think I was trying to back Michael up but I've ended up ranting. I'm no badge snob and neither is Michael. A 2002 BMW is not a banger. Don't be silly. I'd kill for one. A 1999 Vectra is not a banger. A G reg Fiesta is a banger. Whilst I'm sure a 3.0 5 Series wouldn't be the best purchase for me at this time (much as I'd love one) I would love nothing more than to have my old Focus back with however many miles it has on the clock. I can't believe that it's 5 years older than what I've got now but 5 times the better car.
Whether my experience is representative of other Vauxhall owners (I suspect it isn't) I don't care. I will never own another Vauxhall ever again. Cheap, horrible nasty rubbish. By comparison, Dad finally got a new car - a Mondeo TDCi no less! And what a difference that is. I'm not saying the Mondeo is the best car in the world - it isn't. It has less toys than mine but drives so much better. If people drove a Mondeo and then the equivalent Vectra, I am absolutely certain they'd go for the Ford every time.
I'm sorry for the long rant. I needed to get that off my chest. If anyone is still awake and has ANY petrol Focus that hasn't been written off, I'll swap you.
Again, apologies for the long post!
Adam
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Got no axe to grind either way Adam, but i enjoyed that story no end, thankyou.
I don't think Michael is a badge snob either, anyone who's driven a 5 series good engined auto beemer will be disappointed with most usually FWD cars in comparison.
Its only the supposed badge snobs cars that are RWD now anyway, so that will always be a problem, i like RWD too, does that make those of us who do prefer RWD snobs?
I carry a lot of vx's mostly ex fleet 10 - 15K milers, and i don't think they are a bad car, seem strong compared with many, and quite comfortable, i don't think much of the dashboard/interior but thats purely personal and i'm strange anyway, i still like dark wood and light leather, so dislike the majority of newer cars interiors.
I don't like the clutch on the cars, but i would say the petrol is much nicer to drive in that respect, esp the 2.2, the diesel either bites fast, judders, and you stall the thing, give it slightly more throttle and move off rapido with judder and wheelspin, not nice.
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Well I'm ideally placed to conduct a comparison in the next few months and maybe year or two. As I have mentioned on here before ( couple of times maybe, heh heh ) I have just retired a Mondeo mk3 diesel estate at 150k. It has proven industructible. Nothing broke or failed ever. It has been used and abused although properly maintained. It has trekked all over the UK and Europe countless times, almost always laden to the gunwhales and in all weathers.
Its replacement is a Vauxhall Signum fitted with the 2.2 petrol engine. It started off with some minor niggles but seems to have settled down now. It will indeed be interesting to see if it can take a hard working life as nonchalantly as the Mondeo did. I'm not 100% convinced it will. The Mondeo still feels and drives as tight and together as the day I bought it. Will the Signum feel as solid at 150K ? Not sure if it will.
As a by the way I have run BMWs and Volvos and Audis and such in the past. The sad truth is they all had issues which let them down. Some of them major. Seems reliability is not always a function of perceived quality.
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Its only the supposed badge snobs cars that are RWD now anyway, so that will always be a problem, i like RWD too, does that make those of us who do prefer RWD snobs?
The cat among these particular pigeons is going to come next year when Hyundai bring out their RWD 3l.....
If it drives well, that's going to pin the real snobs into a corner!!
Seems reliability is not always a function of perceived quality.
'Course it's not. Indeed at a certain price point, the car with the worse perceived quality may well be the better car, since the manufacturer has more cash to play with to build the engine properly!!
Perceived quality should be lumped in with styling, not reliability.
Edited by jase1 on 23/08/2008 at 18:35
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The cat among these particular pigeons is going to come next year when Hyundai bring out their RWD 3l..... If it drives well that's going to pin the real snobs into a corner!!
I hope you're right, my son was under the impression that Hyundai were going to put a V8 in a special version of the coupe with RWD, i'm very interested, 5 year warranty and all that, apart from very tough reliable cars into the bargain.
Funnily enough only asked at the Hyundai dealer thismorning whilst the Toyo had its first service, and was met with a rebuke almost for suggesting such a thing from a (once he'd discovered we didn't want any of the present offerings) disinterested sales executive, told us if they did make anything like that it would only be for the US market.
Should they ever make such a car, we'll find another dealer for sure.
Why can sales people never fathom that we the car enthusiast are not from a production line like their cars.
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I hope you're right my son was under the impression that Hyundai were going to put a V8 in a special version of the coupe with RWD i'm very interested 5 year warranty and all that apart from very tough reliable cars into the bargain.
disinterested sales executive told us if they did make anything like that it would only be for the US market.
Not quite a V8 unfortunately :( but a 3.8V6 with 300+BHP. The saloon version will be a US special but no decision has been made either way about the Coupe -- I see no reason why they shouldn't, the standard Coupe sells well enough, and it is beginning to look a bit tired compared to the competition now.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Genesis_Coupe
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Not quite a V8 unfortunately :( but a 3.8V6 with 300+BHP. The saloon version will be a US special but no decision has been made either way about the Coupe
Thanks for the link Jase, interesting stuff, hope they end up here in rhd.
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Had a little browse on US ebay, and they are selling the Hyundai Genesis, very sleek and lovely car with, looks like Lexus 300/400.............10 year/100K warranty.....hope that turns up her too, give the established makers of that type of motor something to think about.
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Had a little browse on US ebay and they are selling the Hyundai Genesis very sleek and lovely car with looks like Lexus 300/400.............10 year/100K warranty.....hope that turns up her too give the established makers of that type of motor something to think about.
Not going to happen -- Hyundai cite the poor image of the company's larger cars in Europe.
However, it's interesting to note that in some markets these are being marketed under the brand-name Genesis -- it seems that this is to be Hyundai's luxury brand eventually.
It'll take years and years of slog before such a brand would have any credibility in the UK though! Even the largest car maker in the world struggles with some of the best-engineered cars on the market.
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Adam
I hope the garage paid for your new piston rings; a fault developing within a fortnight (actually within 6 months) of purchase is presumed to have been there at the time of sale.
If he didn't, sue him for it. IIRC HJ mentioned in the Telegraph that he had a tame solicitor who would act for free on a test case.
Anyway, why do you think that my 1999 Vectra, which I could replace for £500 (but not with a Vectra...) is not a banger?
And given Glass's suggests Michael's BMW is worth only £3,500, it's virtually in banger territory too.
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Mapmaker,
Well, you'd think so wouldn't you but no - not quite. There was some dispute as to the car's history (in particular, who had done the service and when) which made it clear we were going to have to go to court to get anywhere. Given I needed the car urgently, and the fact that we'd previously tried to sue someone many years ago (if you're ever bored, get me to tell you the story of the Peugeot 405 and a holiday in Cornwall) which was so expensive, we had a bit of a family meeting and decided it was probably best to shell out and write it off to experience.
Looking back, it was probably a bad idea but it got the car back on the road that week and me back in the car! (My job depends on me having the car and I work for a less than reasonable man).
I don't think your Vectra is a banger nor do I think Michael's BM is a banger because a banger to me is something that costs less than the tax (although I realise I might have to move my goalposts soon!) Something that you could buy with a couple of hundred quid. But to be honest, it's not all about cost - I'd sooner have your car than a much newer Fiesta (with or without rust) and from the sounds of things, it'd probably be a better bet than mine.
It's a horrible horrible feeling hating your car. I couldn't recommend it to anyone.
Adam
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It's a horrible horrible feeling hating your car. I couldn't recommend it to anyone.
Its ok Adam, I wouldn't want yours after what you've told us about its history anyway ;o)
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Ahhhhh! I knew you'd pop up in here sooner or later! ;)
I wouldn't want to give you mine! I know I've gone on ranting about Alan (that's what I called the car) and it seems like I've got a vendetta against it - well, I have now! But to be fair, if the same catalogue of events had unfolded during my ownership of another make, I'd be saying the same thing about that!
I wasn't anti-Vauxhall before I bought it - it's my own fault!
Adam
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Maybe, just maybe the Astra is a genuine Vauxhall.
Sadly no such thing as a genuine Vauxhall. The current astra is badged Vauxhall, Opel, & Holden, These being built at Ellesmere Port. However those being built at Antwerp and Bochum are Probably built for Opel.
Having worked at both Jaguar at Halewood, and Vauxhall, I see no difference in the build and quality process, same steel, same weld technology, same paint process. Just a lot more poncing about with the trim for Jaguar, ie lots of foam to give that quality feel.
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Well I certainly would have once. Aiwa although a subsidiary of Sony once made the best tape decks and receivers you could buy.
Hardly. Have you never heard of Nakamichi or TEAC?
Aiwa were good, but they weren't *that* good!!!
They were more Honda than Rolls Royce -- better than Sony (Toyota) but still fairly budget-oriented.
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Aiwa and Yamaha were the cassette decks you bought if you couldn't afford a Nakamichi. Aiwa had a £250 model (can't remember the name) which actually ran the entry level Nakamichi (£750) very close. Not built to the same standard, but performed pretty much as well. To keep this even half on motoring, it was like pitching a Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 against a contemporary BMW 325i - on most roads, there would be virtually nothing in it performance-wise despite a considerable difference in standards of build and engineering (and price)
Rubbish format in any case. Buying an expensive tape deck was like buying an expensive fax machine - all the expensive componentry and innovative design in the world could never fully overcome the fundamental flaws in the basic technology, and this hateful format was obsolete long before it disappeared from the marketplace.
Edited by DP on 23/08/2008 at 20:00
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That'd be the old 800 I think. I have the successor to my right here, the ADF-850. Three-heads, Dolby C etc etc. It's a good unit, and more than sufficient for my occasional tape needs.
Agree about the format; having said that with a good enough deck and decent Taiyo-Yuden based metal tapes it was acceptable enough.
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> the ADF-850. Three-heads, Dolby C etc etc. It's a good unit, and more than sufficient for my occasional tape needs<
I've got an Aiwa ADF 850 but one channel seems to be dead, its hardly had any use really - any ideas ?
In The Olde Daes, The German built GM offerings were head & shoulders above The British built examples comparing the Vauxhall Astra with the Opel Kadett and the Vauxhall Cavlier with the Opel Ascona ... I'll tell ya one thing though, I'd rather drive a 6 year old 5 series than a brand new Daewoo >>>You cannot get a new Daewoo for that sort of money.<<<
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I have had the car a few years now and when I mentioned I could have had a new Vauxhall instead I was of course reffering to the price I paid for it rather than whatever it may or may not currently be worth :p
Edited by MichaelR on 23/08/2008 at 22:28
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> the ADF-850. Three-heads Dolby C etc etc. It's a good unit and more than sufficient for my occasional tape needs< I've got an Aiwa ADF 850 but one channel seems to be dead its hardly had any use really - any ideas ?
No idea -- probably something really simple like a bad solder joint or a wire that's come loose, but I don't fix them I just listen to them. They're only worth about £20 now anyway, so if you need one probs just best to buy one from ebay.
In The Olde Daes The German built GM offerings were head & shoulders above The British built examples comparing the Vauxhall Astra with the Opel Kadett
Indeed, that's why the Brit operation was shut down.
Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas are more "British" than Vauxhalls these days.
I'll tell ya one thing though I'd rather drive a 6 year old 5 series than a brand new Daewoo >>>You cannot get a new Daewoo for that sort of money.<<<
Daewoo were never given the chance to develop... they came after Hyundai and were dragged down by the far-East financial crisis. Who knows, if they'd remained independent they might have become respected in the same way Hyundai increasingly are. Now though they will forever be GM's cheap car sweatshop.
In fairness to Daewoo though we have one of their older cars and, while it's not particularly nice (well, OK, it's rotten -- the dashboard creaks even though the plastics are soft-touch, and the gearchange is typical Vauxhall clunk-clunk-clunk), it has proven to be surprisingly solid so far.
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Can anyone come up with a more mongrel brand than Vauxhall these days?
We have Astras, which are Opels but with some Vauxhall input -- benefit of the doubt we can call these Vauxhalls.
Then we have the bulk of the range being rebranded Opels.
The Agila which is a rebranded Suzuki.
The VX220 which is a Lotus.
The VXR which is a Holden.
The Vivaro van which is a Renault.
And of course the Antara which is a Daewoo.
This means really that it is impossible to make any kind of comment on how good a "Vauxhall" is -- the above are a massively diverse range of manufacturers.
Almost makes you yearn for the relative simplicity of the Rover lineup.
Edited by jase1 on 24/08/2008 at 05:34
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>>>No idea -- probably something really simple like a bad solder joint or a wire that's come loose, <<<
Same thing in cars these days - how many black boxes have been replaced, for the want of a good connection somewhere along the line.
>>>but I don't fix them I just listen to them. They're only worth about £20 now anyway, so if you need one probs just best to buy one from ebay.<<<
Done that with my Sherwood tuner, I replaced it only this week with an half decent Denon from eBay to mate with my Arcam.
The Opel's I used to work on were all mostly RHD, is it still possible I wonder - to buy a RHD Opel Astra ? still GM obviously, and maybe made anywhere *but* The Fatherland.
>>>Almost makes you yearn for the relative simplicity of the Rover lineup.<<<
Great shame about Rover (IMO) ... nuffink wrong with the 75 model (far from it), even the 200 series was an half decent car (for a mimser ?)
Trouble is, there's far too many makes & models on the market, but the way things are going, we'll all be driving Trabants soon I'll wager :)
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A good article on the Opel Brand, with some pix of old models at the bottom of the page
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel
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I'll tell ya one thing though I'd rather drive a 6 year old 5 series than a brand new Daewoo <<
I wouldnt. I owned a '98 Matiz from new, every option and not only was it a decent enough car that I did 20k a year in for three years, but the customer service was absolutely second to none - like a budget version of Lexus. Nothing was ever too much trouble and it never cost me a penny.
Daewoo may not have survived, but the concept was spot on and just needed a better allround product to suceed. If Hyundai introduced a 5 year servicing plan into its prices, I think it would be even more popular.
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