How did you get on with the ride comfort of the X3? Many people seem to find it unbearable.
Do you want an auto? If not, have you considered Ford Kuga? It's getting rave reviews.
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Are either what you would call roomy cars? We have a Freelander but I think of it as rather cramped. I think a lot of people look at SUVs and think that's a big car when in reality they'd be better off with a "normal" car.
Have you looked at MPVs which are designed much more with young families in mind?
If 4x4 is essential then something like a Octavia Scout might be a bit left field or an Audi AllRoad although seem to go for rather high prices.
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Funnily enough I seriously considered an X3 a couple of years ago. My needs include good loadspace. I test drove a couple and really quite liked the 2.0d versions. I didn't buy in the end as I decided to spend less and go for an estate with better fuel economy as I do a highish mileage. Nice cars though and I think given your shortlist I might still choose the BMW.
A car for most people represents a combination of practical needs balanced by styling preference and budget. Often it is just about what feels right on the day.
I can attest though, to how one's best intentions go right out of the window when you see something you just want !
Long winded way of saying I vote for the X3 in answer to your question.
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I think if I had to choose just between those two I would probably go for the BMW. I had a Freelander which had the BMW diesel engine and it was really nice, much better than the previous Freelander which had the old Rover diesel engine.
The X3 should have better residuals and you won't take the initial depreciation hit if you buy used. It may be more expensive to service but you can always go to a specialist BMW mechanic rather than the main dealer.
If you include the Honda CR-V in the list then I would go for that over the others. You may wonder why I say that, well I got a new diesel one last year and it's fantastic. If you haven't given one a try you really should consider at least a test drive. Of course it's looks aren't everyones cup of tea.
To all the anti SUV brigade, we live in the sticks in the highlands of Scotland so can justify owning a 4x4, not that I feel I have to. :)
Andyfr
Edited by andyfr on 15/08/2008 at 10:06
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RAV4 2.2 diesel is worth considering. HJ heaped plenty of praise on the T180 and there's some large discounts (£4K+) on new ones - check drivethedeal. Also, as iyou're in the family way, the RAV4 has very good safety kit too - nine airbags in total.
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I just had a look AT THE RAV 4, it's one that passed me by completely. The features look great, reviews not so good(I had a look at WhatCar and reader reviews are bad) but the prices are astonishing. £4k+ discounts AND 12 months interest free? I always get suspicious when I see things being given away like that.
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Thanks everyone. I too was wondering if any anti SUV people would turn up :)
I found the ride of the X3 rather nice, I had read it was supposed to be firm but even going over a bumpy road it wasn't too bad. I suppose having driven a Fiesta for 15 years might colour my opinion though. I tractor would probably feel luxurious after that! If anything it was a nicer ride that the Tiguan.
I know I ought to look at the CRV, indeed my wife works for Honda so we would even get a nice employee discount but she has enoguh of Honda on a daily basis at work and couldn't bear to look at a Honda logo all the time during out of work hours. Once the extras are added it's also surprisingly expensive, I think when we looked it came in at more than the Tiguan.
Re. the Freelander size vs the VW and BMW, the Tiguan is very similar in size I think, the BMW is incredibly roomy once you're inside. It just feels very very big and spacious. That's one area where the BMW wins. The main downside is that it just isn't very nice inside, not luxurious at all. In fact it's not much of a step up from the Fiesa. I would have hoped when spending that amount of money you'd get something a little nicer, a bit more refinement. The Tigun is excellent in this area.
If I were to put a list together to help me decide between the tow it might look a little like this:
Tiguan Pros
Easier to drive around town as it's smaller
Great extras available eg Park Assist
Nice inside, very 'snazzy'
Better looking (Not that important really)
Easier to reverse
Cons
Light steering
More expensive with the features added on
Less boot room
Feels smaller inside than the X3
X3 Pros
Nicer ride
Better engine
Cheaper
Bigger boot so perhaps the car would last longer
Better build quality?
Cons
Less visibility out the back
Looks like a Fiesta from inside
Whichever car we buy we would want to last us at least 7 or 8 years. Longer if possible. To some extent the X3 'feels' like it might last longer.
I could get a nice X3 for around the £19k mark, something like this tinyurl.com/65gxl6
I've got a quote for a new Tiguan and I'm looking at about £22k. I could buy used but the Tiguan prices are still around £20k so in some ways I might as well buy new. Depreciation isn't an issue either as we're going to keep the car for a long time.
The next thing I need to go is figure out how much of a discount I can get from the dealers. None of them seem particularly interested in cash and want to get me on finance but there's no point in that if I can pay it up front.
I might have to flip a coin on this one. Neither myself or the wife really have a major preference.
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Is there any reason why you wont have an Estate? The amount of 3 or 5 Series Touring that you can get for £19k is staggering - and they will drive better, be comfortable, be better equipped, be more economical, be quicker (if that matters to you) and just be a better car in every possible way bar ability to get out of the mud at the pony club.
I've nothing against SUV's but I just find them a bit pointless against some the quality of some of the Estates on the market today.
But if you must have 4wd and a high centre of gravity so that you can experience fear of death when you negotiate slight bends (ok, so I exagerate) then I'd have the X3 over the overpriced PeoplesCar Tiguan any day.
Although I'd look instead at the X5 - it's hardly any bigger but it's better built and has a proper engine range.
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The X5 is certainly nice but not really within my price range. I could pick up a used for £25k but that's a bit more than I'd want to spend. Plus the engine starts at 3 litre and 99.9% of them are automatic (I prefer manual).
As for why not an estate, I simply cannot bring myself to buy one. I'm 30 years old, maybe when I'm mid 40's but not yet :) Honestly though, my wife would kill me, we just don't like the look of them. I know that's not particularly rational but then maybe just this once I'd like to let me heart rule my head. Just a little bit :)
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I dont understand. Is there an age limit on buying an Estate? I've never had a dealer look at me funny when I looked at a few at 22? I ended up with a Saloon but only becuase it was easier to find a good one. I'd not have minded a Touring. After all I'm not one of those who thinks you need to pigeonhole yourself into a certain car for a certain age. Don't you think thats a bit of a daft way to think?
I'd understand if the alternative wasn't an X3 - after all, it simply looks like an Estate on stilts becuase thats fundamentally what it is?
Used X5's start from £10k, so there are plenty for your budget. Yes, they start with a 3 litre engine but then why would you want to buy a BMW with a small engine?
Humour me - spend 30 minutes test driving something like a BMW 325i M Sport Touring. I promise you that you wont look again at the X3.
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I'm 32, my cars are an MPV (Renault Scenic) and a saloon (BMW 318). But if the OP doesn't want an estate, he doesn't want one. Each to their own.
If space is what you're after, though, approach all small SUVs with caution. My cirterion is that I can fit either a Mama and Papas 03 buggy or my two pet greyhounds in the loadspace of any estate/MPV/SUV I look at. You'd be unpleasantly surprised how many MPVs or SUVs can't accomodate either! (I've yet to find an estate that fails the test, but...)
The Tiguan's boot appears to me too small for your needs. The X3 is OK, but only just. Personally I'd have a CRV for on-road comfort or a Subaru Forester for some genuine forest-track ability. And buying used (even nearly new) makes a lot of sense - as previously mentioned, you can avoid the initial depreciation hit this way.
Do ask yourself, though: will SUVs still be in fashion and resaleable in, say, 5 years time? Or is a more economical, sensible MPV or (gulp!) estate going to be easier to trade in or sell on without taking a sizeable hit in the wallet?
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Edit: I just noticed the OPs comment about keeping the car 7-8 years. Its worth bearing in mind that circumstances change; you may want to change the car sooner.
So, all other factors being equal, its worth giving some thougth to which car would leave you least out of pocket after 3 or 5 years. Between the X3 and Tiguan, that's probably another reason to opt for the X3.
Don't forget running costs either: they'll add up over 8 years!
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I don't get the anti-estate thing either.
I tend to judge most people with urban 4x4s as being a word that the swearfilter wouldn't allow in a million years. Especially all the mums taking the little kiddies to school in them - the kids are completely hidden behind the high sides. Oh, and the added bonus you're much more likely to kill the little blighters if you hit them as everything is at head height.
Sorry, yes, this is an anti-SUV rant, but I hate the things. Unless you've got a horse / farm / other need for one; but if you do, why on earth woulnd't you get a proper Landie and look cool while you're at it!??
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The anti SUV thing is relevant especially if you are somebody who cares so much about what other people think you'd exclude cars on that basis - 'I'm 30, I cant be seen in an Estate'!.
Like it or not, it's a fact that small minded morons are going to think you are a complete **** who is killing the planet if you drive an SUV. They are simple people so they don't realise that a 2.0 diesel SUV is no more planet killing than a Mondeo. They WILL hate you, its that simple.
These people outnumber the people who will do whatever it is you think they will do if they see somebody of 30 in an Estate.
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No, I hate them because they are killing *people*, the planet thing is a debatable point. High, unstable, less able to avoid / stop before an accident, and much more likely to kill when that accident happens. I detest those that chose to take that risk with other people's lives.
Anyway, it's a free world. You can think they are fine, I can hate people that chose to have one. I certainly wouldn't dream of banning anything - we've got plenty of stupid and unnecessary laws in place already.
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High unstable less able to avoid / stop before an accident and much more likely to kill when that accident happens. I detest those that chose to take that risk with other people's lives.
Do you have any data to back that up?
Does that also apply to MPVs?
Andyfr
Edited by andyfr on 15/08/2008 at 13:33
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Like it or not it's a fact that small minded morons are going to think you are a complete ****
You might want to think about that if you're wife is going to be driving it - a colleague lives in London and drives a Touareg. He has no problem, but whenever his wife drives it she gets grief from people.
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Yeah but that's a Touareg - they are properly horrible
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Yeah but that's a Touareg - they are properly horrible
I quite like them - if I didn't mainly do long motorway journeys (so the fuel penalty would be painful) then I'd have one.
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Sorry yes this is an anti-SUV rant but I hate the things. Unless you've got a horse / farm / other need for one; but if you do why on earth woulnd't you get a proper Landie and look cool while you're at it!??
Thought it wouldn't take long. As I said earlier where we live makes an SUV essential, I used to have a Land Rover Defender and they are fine for short trips. We have to visit family over 400 miles away and there is no way I would drive that far on a regular basis in a Defender. The Landie did 27mpg the CR-V does 42mpg.
Why people are so against small SUVs but don't say anything about sports cars is beyond me.
Andyfr
Edited by andyfr on 15/08/2008 at 13:30
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Thought it wouldn't take long. As I said earlier where we live makes an SUV essential
Unless you live miles from the nearest tarmac'd road then I am sure this isn't really true, is it. Audi do various cars which would suit you perfectly - including the Allroad if you need a bit of clearance as well as 4WD.
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Unless you live miles from the nearest tarmac'd road then I am sure this isn't really true is it. Audi do various cars which would suit you perfectly - including the Allroad if you need a bit of clearance as well as 4WD.
Exactly. My Mum lives on a farm in Wales down a reasonably steep dirt track. She has had a Fiat Multipla for about 8 years and never even come close to getting stuck once. It's all about show with 4x4s, and I think the balance of opinion is turning against them now, so be prepared for a huge slice of derision should you buy one.
Ask yourself this question: "Would I rather my child hit by a BMX X3 or a Ford Mondeo?"
If you're answer is the X3, you don't like your child much. If the answer is the Mondeo and you still purchase a 4x4, then you are being cavalier with the life and limbs of other people's children for the sake of your perceived self-image.
Sorry if this sounds like moralising, but I'm a father of two children and as a child myself I lost my own father in a road accident, so I have strong feelings on the subject.
MPVs are different as they are designed to be road cars and are far more friendly to pedestrians in an accident (low bonnet edges raked up to the windscreen and lower bumpers). 4x4s are simply not designed as road cars as should therefore be strictly limited in their use of the roads.
I would advocate some kind of permit being required before a 4x4 could be purchased, demonstrating beyond resonable doubt the need for an off-road capability on the part of the purchaser. If a permit is obtained, there should then be a supplementary driving course and examination to teach people the differences between these vehicles and standard cars.
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Not to get off topic but I think you're talking a little bit of nonsense here. My brother drives a Golf GTI. I would rather be hit by two X5s with me driving than hit by his GTI with him driving. If you're going down the route of cars being dangerous then ban them completely. You simply can't make generalist sweeping comments about one car being more dangerous than another. That's too simplistic and ignores all the other factors. My wife and I drive like an 80 year old granny. Sure we drive above the limit on the motorway sometimes but around town we're normally holding other people up.
Second, I bet that the average person would have more chance of hitting a very small child reversing in a Mondeo than in a Tiguan. The Tiguan has a rear view camera and parking sensors neither of which my mum's Mondeo has.
I mean, where do you draw the line? Do you ban any vehicle that doesn't have ISOFIX built in? Tell me, which car would you want your child in, one with or without ISOFIX? Do we ask people to have special permits for any car sports car that is not driven around a racing track?
I'm very sorry for your loss but I think it's obviously clouded your judgment a little.
So in answer to your question, "Would I rather my child hit by a BMX X3 or a Ford Mondeo?" My answer is I'd rather not have my child hit at all. So perhaps we ban all cars? Will yhou be the first to set the example and get rid of yours? :)
(Now I've opened a can of worms, I have a feeling I know where this discussion is going to end up. And I only wanted some advice between two different cars, WHIMPER) ;)
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So in answer to your question "Would I rather my child hit by a BMX X3 or a Ford Mondeo?" My answer is I'd rather not have my child hit at all. So perhaps we ban all cars? Will yhou be the first to set the example and get rid of yours? :)
Thought someone might say that! It's just not possible to answer the question with a clear conscience, I don't think! I just think that 4x4s create an arms race on our roads where people buy them as they think they're looking after their own, whilst increasing the danger to everyone else.
The point is that 4x4s are not cars, they're adapted agricultural vehicles. Cars have become a necessity to most people, but I just don't see the point of making the situation worse by introducing vehicles on to the roads which come from a design origin where road use and road safety isn't the primary concern.
I don't think I suggested a ban, either.
And yes, every time I've bought a car since my first child was in utero, I've made sure it's got ISOFIX. That's a good way of protecting my own as best I can without increasing the risk to others.
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We live down a single track road out in the sticks which is a mile from the nearest road. We have snow, lots of it, during the winter and the snow plough doesn't come down the track until the major roads are clear which can sometimes be several days. There are only three other habited houses in 4 mile radius and the nearest bus stop is 4 miles away.
When we first moved up I tried to get out in a normal saloon and only got a few yards before grinding to a halt, we got a Freelander soon after. The Audi Allroad is far too expensive to buy and run and we did look at the Skoda Scout but the seats were uncomfortable when we went for a test drive.
Not all SUVs are based on adapted farm vehicles, the CR-V we now have certainly isn't.
Andyfr
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The Audi Allroad is far too expensive to buy and run
Rubbish, they start from about £8k now for a previous generation example.
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>> The Audi Allroad is far too expensive to buy and run Rubbish they start from about £8k now for a previous generation example.
We only buy new and sell at 5 years.
Andyfr
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We only buy new and sell at 5 years.
How daft. Try buying smart instead of buying the latest registration plate and you might be able to move above the world of the cheap plastic Japanese car.
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It's got nothing to do with the latest plate, I have a personal plate (something else for you to moan about no doubt) but more that we have three years manufacturers warranty. Also by getting rid at five years we don't have to replace things which tend to go around that age, such as exhausts, battery, brakes etc., we have only had to replace tyres on the last few cars.
I have owned lots of cars in the past from really old bangers to a few months old but there's nothing quite like having a brand new car.
Andyfr
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I'm very sorry for your loss but I think it's obviously clouded your judgment a little.
Thanks for your words, but on the subject of clouded judgments, there's an element of pot and kettle here as you're basing your choice of car on what image you want to give off for your age. Image seems to have clouded your judgement to me. My personal tragedy did indeed make me rethink many of my thoughts, and yes, the memory of it still affects my decisions and judgments. Don't see how that can be a bad thing in this case, and I try to persuade others to make the best choices in regards to road safety as a result. Not that it does much good when image is the primary concern to some. Sometimes it takes a tragedy for people to realise that yes, "sometimes it does happen to me".
I've been driving estate cars since I was 28 and I can't say I've ever been thought of differently by anyone who matters! They're easily the best solution for a family.
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Yes, my judgement is clouded, I freely admitted that from the start. :) I would like to say however that the reason I don't want an estate has nothing to do with how I appear to other people, if you knew me you'd have no questions about that :) It's simply that 'I' don't like the styling, much in the same way as I could have purchased a slightly better TV than the one I did but the thing looked horrible.
I'm also not buying an SUV that is designed as an agricultural vehicle, I'm looking at an X3/Tiguan, not a discovery.
Why do I like the SUVs? I like the style, I particularly like the ride height and increased visibility. Looking around a corner in an SUV when there are cars in the way is eye opening, literally. They also feel more spacious inside (at least some do). We're relatively green as a household so I\m not looking for a 4.5L gas guzzler. The Tiguan engine is actually pretty friendly compared to many cars on the road.
If we decide against an SUV then we might go for a Golf or maybe something cheaper like a 1 series. But as nice as those cars are for runarounds, in my opinion, the Tiguan and X3 are just nicer cars.
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Ask yourself this question: "Would I rather my child hit by a BMX X3 or a Ford Mondeo?"
Some work was done in the US that showed SUV's can cause less injury as the flat front spreads the impact on the child's body.
There's also the primary safety aspect, that the SUV driver being seated higher up may well spot the kid before the Mondeo driver.
In addition, if your main concern is "my child", then it's been shown that kids are far safer in SUV's than in other types of vehicle.
Edited by Bill Payer on 15/08/2008 at 15:34
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Some work was done in the US that showed SUV's can cause less injury as the flat front spreads the impact on the child's body.
And then drags them under the car instead of up and away. Wonder who funded that work?
There's also the primary safety aspect that the SUV driver being seated higher up may well spot the kid before the Mondeo driver.
More likely not to if the child is in close proximity to the vehicle, which is when a collision is more likely to happen.
In addition if your main concern is "my child" then it's been shown that kids are far safer in SUV's than in other types of vehicle.
Might as well all have 38-tonners then. My main concern is everyone's safety, hence my decision to drive a standard estate car (and my wife a small MPV) fitted with ISOFIX. I feel it's incumbent upon everyone not to escalate the vehicular arms race and take considered decisions in the best interests of safety. That way we'll all be safer, not just me me me.
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Hello MJS100,
Is a VW Touareg too large for you? If you are at the garage driving the VW Tiguan (sp?) then perhaps consider driving a Touareg too? There are absolutely loads of 2.5TDis and some 3.0TDIs (and even the odd V10 TDi ;-) well under £20K in the Approved VW cars list). This would give you all the space you ever need and HJ gives the 2.5TDI Tiptronic in particular a very good rating.
I vote with some others that if you're looking at X3s then you should really drive the X5, which is a better car. Suggest the 3.0d obviously.
Good luck with the car hunt!
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It does feel a bit too big, we did consider it but I'm not sure we'd get down our road in it :) I like the X5, it's automatic which is a problem for us though. We do prefer a stick.
Out of interest, would a 2005 X5 be a better choice than a 2007 X3? Especially in terms of emissions, running cost and overall quality?
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mjs, first of all don't feel the need to justify your decision to anyone on here - do what you feel is best for you.
My last few cars have all been MPV type vehicles and I fully understand where you are coming from with the visibility benefit. Of course, if everyone bought one then that benefit would be lost!
Lats time I changed - I looked at the old style Honda CRV, I so so desperately wanted one as I loved the looks , the chunkiness. But inside was a let down in my eyes, so poos quality, things like no clock, radio was very basic and that just put me off.
The one thing I would say is, taking into account your criteria do a "dummy" run with the car in the way that you will be using it. So see how easy it is to access rear for child in/out a car seat. Will the interior stand up to kids mess (remember if keeping for 5 years child will have made a lot of mess in that time!) Is boot big enough but not too big that you are having to clamber over things ( a friend hated their Octavia as although it had a big boot, she was small and couldn't reach to the back of it where things would inevitably roll). Is it parkable in a supermarket car park, in your driveway etc etc.
Whatever one fits your criteria then go for it and good luck!
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Why a 4x4? I you want a Tiguan because it's higher you may as well consider a Touran - loads of those around and probably far more practical considering how long you intend to keep it.
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I had a Tiguan 2.0TDi as a courtesy car while my Passat (also 2.0TDi) was having its second (yes, second) replacement engine fitted under warranty. It was nice to drive, seemed shorter than the Passat (no boot extension) but was slower and lower geared. My Passat does 35mph in 6th gear, the Tiguan was about 30mph. The high driving position was actually quite nice.
But I prefer the Passat.
It might be worth looking into the reliability of the VAG 2.0 TDi engine.
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Consider a Toyota Verso SR - 0% interest on them at the moment and carfile can get a good price for you.
Or buy a one year old T3 Verso for about 11K to 13K depending on whether you are going for diesel or petrol.
I am thinking of one but have not yet decided to go for petrol or diesel and am thinking about new but can't really justify a 6K loss in the first year.
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I feel a bit sorry for this poor guy. Don't get me wrong, I'm not seeking to be patronising enough to be stepping in to defend him, I'm sure he's more than capable of doing that for himself if he even cares to.
Thing is though, he has asked the 'room to give him a bit of help in making his final decision re a couple of cars which are freely available and legal to buy. Seems a bit harsh to rip into him because that's what he fancies in my view.
I'm sure many of us drive things which others might not favour but that is, thankfully, for now anyway, our free choice.
Don't worry....be happy....... !
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Had a Tiguan on hire recently. Very nice to drive, went like a bat out of hell but the boot was incredibly small. If you have a little one on the way you'll need space for buggies etc. We recently drove to France on a ski trip with 2 young ones in the back in an ancient Audi A4, and only the skis had to go on the roof. There is no way that lot would have gone into the Tiguan. Didn't need the snow chains either!
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I third Humph's post too.
Bloke wanted some constructive views on a couple of motors he's interested in, he does not have to justify how he spends his hard earned here.
Some comments made me think of a former communist state, applying for permits and satisfying some petty official, could just imagine the sour faced twerp he'd turn out to be.
Funnily enough comments like those make replacing our largish pick up with a bigger one more likely..;)
Nothing at all wrong with SUV's, they've got many good points.
MJS
Dare say either of those choices would be fine , but i'll throw an outside suggestion in, have a look at the new shape Hyundai Santa Fe before you decide finally, 5 year unlimited mileage warranty not to be sniffed at, and quite a good size.
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Up to a point, yes. Car manufacturers are world beaters at creating a niche market and then persuading us we fit into that lifestyle when in reality many other models will do what we need better (but if there are fewer models overall, we'd feel less inclined to change our cars so often).
MPVs, SUVs, hot hatches etc are all cretions of marketing departments not neccessarily real need.
I think it's healthy to point out the benefits and drawbacks of certain types of cars as it makes us more likley to choose a car that actually meets our real rather than perceived needs and there are so many cars to choose from it's easy to overlook a left field choice which actually hits our bullseye.
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And what I forgot to add was that the OP actually needs a Subaru Outback - does everything he wants and more - he just doesn't know it yet.....:)
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And what I forgot to add was that the OP actually needs a Subaru Outback
I thought the same earlier in the thread, with the budget in mind a diesel would be a possibility.
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Funnily enough comments like those make replacing our largish pick up with a bigger one more likely..;) Nothing at all wrong with SUV's they've got many good points.
A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
The best thing about 4x4s is when we get some snow around my way, there's always a rash of invincible 4x4s stuffed in to trees or hanging out of hedges and ditches. Gives the rest of us a right good laugh.
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Winter tyres are far more effective than 4x4 for trips to the alps, and that way you can get to drive there in a 'stylish' estate!!
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New Subaru Forester? just an idea :-)
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