Bought some brake discs for a Golf from a well-known motor factor chain - "Zimmermann" branded. The box had 'Germany' written on it in several places and German text. The casting and machining looked rather poor when I took them out of the box, I was a bit suspicious, so I took them back. The parts guy thought the problem was that they are now made in Pakistan or China or somewhere else in Asia. He swapped them for ATE 'Original Equipment' discs (bit more expensive) that had "Engineered in Germany" written on the box. When I got home I noticed that the box had 'Made in PRC' printed on it in small letters (i.e. People's Republic of China').
I think with all this sort of thing going on the 'Germany brand' is being devalued, especially when they are still charging premium prices.
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Its no different to UK goods in the past having "made in the British Empire" stamped on them for goods made in Hong Kong and elswhere .Many original parts are now made in the far east you would probably loose half your car if far east products were removed.
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There's no reason why a company perceived to be German shouldn't have a manufacturing plant in China. The products will be made to the same design and quality and using the same materials and machinery. ATE is Alfred Teves Gmbh which is now owned by the American ITT Corporation. See tinyurl.com/6fz56g for the company history.
My past experience of products made (under licence) in China was that the quality was first class.
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The products will be made to the same design and quality and using the same materials and machinery.
Hmm...
This argument does not appear to apply to the Zimmermann discs - definitely looked a bit sub-standard (marks in casting and machining marks on the disc surface) and the parts guy seemed unsurprised that I was returning them. The ATE discs DO look OK though.
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This argument does not appear to apply to the Zimmermann discs - definitely looked a bit sub-standard (marks in casting and machining marks on the disc surface) and the parts guy seemed unsurprised that I was returning them.
I was talking about OEM products, not pattern parts.
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My past experience of products made (under licence) in China was that the quality was first class.
Many manufacturers are opting to go the Chinese route due to the ongoing copyright law problem.
Effectively, it is better to have your nose inside the tent, and have a legitimate self-owned or licensed manufacturing presence in China, than to sit back and watch some scoundrel produce knock-offs of your patented design, and flog them on the cheap.
In the event of a copyright infringement, if you are 'legit'in China then the law will take itc course. However, if you aren't there, and complaining from overseas, then you may as well whistle...
As a result, there's a lot of good quality, well made, and well priced stuff coming out.
But also a lot of knock-off, which is one thing with a dodgy name-brand tracksuit flogged down the market, but quite another when it comes to safety-critical parts like brakes!
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13 amp plugs used to be copied-even the BSI/BEAB symbol was copied-no testing.
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It always amazes me when folk go on about the 'bargains' they got on market stalls, or in one of the multitude of knock-off shops which have sprung up in local towns and cities - back to the tracksuit... while snide, will it disappear in a puff of smoke if a spark flies onto it?
Does the three pin plug start smouldering as soon as you use it for anything more current-drawing than an alarm clock?
Motoring wise, there are a few local franchises which i patronise - as well as the main dealers when the franchise mod can't supply silly things which are make-and-model specific, like clips for the sun visor etc!
Yet there are 'spares' shops all over the place selling parts which are far far cheaper than elsewhere, and they do a roaring trade!
And again, it is stuff which is safety critical or can wreck and engine - dampers, brake discs and pads, chav-type luminous plastic steering wheels, bling alloy wheels, cone air filters, fuel and oil filters - which they sell by the score!
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It is well known that this factor chain advertises these "German" products, when in fact it is the boxes that are made in Germany, and the product is made elsewhere. Apparantley, there is a loophole in the law which means they can get away with it.
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This thread brings to mind the recent report in the Telegraph:
www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/20...l
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Reports recently that most prescription-type drugs sold on E-Bay are fake with many totally useless.
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Try buying brake discs which are not manufactured in China.
type brake discs into a well know online encyclopedia and you get:
...Historically, brake discs were manufactured throughout the world with a strong concentration in Europe, and America. Between 1989 and 2005, manufacturing of brake discs is migrating predominantly to China...
Edited by gmac on 03/07/2008 at 17:00
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