It will soon be time to change by 530d touring and I will be looking to get a car with some off road abilities and about the same size as the 530.
I have decided that the idea of buying an expensive car in the hope that it might be better built and less prone to breakdowns is somewhat flawed so I really am not interested in a nice badge. However, with my current car, I do love the acceleration that it has, so I don't want anything to arthritic. I also am getting bored of spending so much at the fuel pumps so don't really want to go below about 38mpg.
My two front runners at the moment are:
Subaru Outback Diesel
Citroen C-Crosser
I will confess to not knowing much about either, apart from having a Mitsu Outlander on loan for a while. Seemed a nice car in town. I know that it isn't a mud plugger either but hope that it can manage more than a wet grass field. I have a feeling that the Outback might be too small inside but I haven't been in one since the new model came out.
I was also thinking Hyundai Santa Fe but too big slow and possibly too crude. I did also have a spin in the VW Toaureg 3.0d which was a nice drive but seems very expensive and 28 mpg is not what I want.
The car that I would really like, although again not the best off road but probably acceptably so, is the Audi Allroad 3.0d but they are very expensive.
Any cars that I should think about? (I think that the Nissan X Trail is going to be too small).
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Do you really, really need genuine off-road capability? If so, I think you might struggle to find a car that can manage 38 mpg and offer the space you require.
Perhaps the Nissan Pathfinder? Bigger than the X-Trail and certainly capable in the rough. It won't accelerate like a 530d though. Genuine off-roaders with half an eye on fuel economy don't anyway.
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Do I need genuine off road capability - no. But I do need some. Moving down to be next to my parents who are farmers so will want to drive around the fields, and I especially want to have some ground clearance so that I can drive my disabled son to certain places that take far too long to walk to (not that he can actually walk). I realise that there is going to have to be a compromise somewhere, hence why I say no to the "genuine" bit.
I think that both the Subaru and Citroen have some limited ability off road and they seem on paper to be quick enough. (I don't mind getting a slower car but don't want something like the Grandis 2.0d that SWMBO has). Or am I mistaken and they are best kept to the road?
I would really like to have the same car as my father who has just got the new Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon 4.5 diesel V8 (replacing the previous model 4.2 diesel V6) but that really is too big, thirsty and expensive. But boy it goes well and never heard the old man prattle on as much.
EDIT - isn't the Pathfinder huge?
Edited by rogue-trooper on 10/06/2008 at 16:38
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Your best bet is probably the mitsubishi outlander/peugeot 4006/citroen c-crosser family of vehicles. The subaru may be too thirsty for your needs.
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I can recommend the Nissan Qashqai. Enough off road ability for you, suprisingly big and comfortable inside (although not MPV big) and with the 2.0 diesel will give you the economy you require with plenty of performance. We have had one for two weeks now and i'm very impressed so far. Didn't even cost too much.
EDIT - Ah. Just read your comment about the x-trail. Maybe too small
Edited by Arfur on 10/06/2008 at 18:02
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Subaru Outback diesel. In a different league to a Citroen in build quality. Not thirsty either.
Edited by nick on 10/06/2008 at 19:59
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Which bit of the X-trail is too small? Presumably as you need to seat more than five?
I bought it because I could get both the large dog cage plus son's large Buggy Major in the back plus family of five in comfort - apart from one son and me, all tall. It is an excellent height for getting a disabled person in and out. The only way I found it too small was if we were all going to stay for a few days and taking the dogs - then we use a topbox.
The newer model actually has an extra 15 inches length in the boot - which I would like as we could then do without the topbox - and is only £220 VED, so would be better when sale time came around. Using Shell V-power I got 460 miles from the last tank full.
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I will admit to maybe unfairly writing off the X trail, but I heard that it was a bit of a squeeze in the back and I have 3 to seat there. I'm 6'3, the wife is just under 6' so I imagine the kids will be getting up there as well.
If it was slightly larger then it might be ideal as I believe that it is good both off and on road.
Volvo XC70 - quite expensive but if they dropped in value that might be worth it. Don't really know much about them (apart from not looking that pretty or at least the latest model) but do they have any benefit over an Outback? Larger in the boot department but more expensive to run.
Think that maybe the short list should be the Outlander and clones, Outback and X-Trail.
Best go and test!
Thanks for advice and welcome any more.
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As Sulphur Man has stated it will be difficult to find a 4x4 type vehicle that can do 38 mpg average. Probably more realistic to expect about 30.
How about a Jeep Cherokee 2.8 crtd manual (facelift version)?
Don't man to hijack your thread, but I would be interested to know what the new Toyota Amazon your dad has is like? Differences over the older 4.2? Driving / performance / MPG/ Interior?
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I did think about the Grand Cherokee but the boss said no point blank as too ugly.
As for the Amazon, my father has only done about 1500 miles in it and the biggest complaint was the colour. He wanted a green one and the green that is on offer is a muddy dirty brownish one and not like the British Racing green of before.
Interior is plusher than before and all is great apart from the radio/sat nav bit. He cannot operate it at all as far too complicated. I rode in it for a few miles and tried to change radio stations and gave up (as it was a nice sunny day). MPG is better than the old one by about 2-4mpg. Performance is a different ball park altogether. The old one wasn't too shoddy but this one flies for something of its size. Quoted 0-60 (or poss 62) of something in the order of 8.2 but the pick up is more impressive. Its not sports car quick but for the size that it is there are zero complaints on that part. I asked him whether it was worth buying the new one and he said a definite yes but then his old one had 120k on the clock so might have been getting on a bit.
The bit he likes most (after the performance), the keyless entry!!
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I would look at two cars. A really cheap 4x4 for the farm and a decent diesel for the roads.
The way I read it you are going to compromise really badly just to get 4x4.
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you might be right but there is the additional problem of two farms being 300 miles apart. as my 2000 530dT is not worth much I might as well keep that and pay the £200 a year road tax on it.
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but then his old one had 120k on the clock so might have been getting on a bit.
That's barely run-in for a Landcruiser! ;-)
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Given enough ground clearance, good off-road tyres might suffice on fields without the compromise of a 4x4 SUV type. Subaru Forester diesel or even Skoda on stilts? IIRC, Swedes don't seem to need fashion statements that are de rigeur in Chelsea, they just sell the Volvos to the WAGS:)
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Outside runner here, Suzuki grand vitara.
As all off roaders know, put some reasonable tyres on one of these and they'll go almost anywhere, obviously not as good as the old SJ 410, but then you can't compare a defender to a disco either.
Also delivered some Rav 4's t'other day, and i'm sure i noticed a diff lock light illuminate during its pre start check, might be worth a nose, engine feels very torquey on the rav too.
Somebody mentioned pathfinder i think, an aquaintance had one of those when the navara was in for warranty work again, apparently quite easy to get it below 20mpg, and yes it was diesel.
3.0 td toyo (ours is hilux, but lancruiser lc5 same engine) does about 30, thats with auto, but that can get worse if you boot it.
Remember virtually any diesel 4 x 4 over 2.5 litres will probably go into high ved band, unless you get a pick up.
One other suggestion here...Hyundai santa fe...5 years unlimited mileage warranty too.
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thanks all for the thoughts.
short list
Citroen C-Crosser (seem to quite like the idea of this inspite of compromise of limited off road ability)
Subaru Outback (possibly Forester but not sure how big new one is)
Nissan X Trail (will have to look at interior space)
Hyundai Santa Fe (seems to tick all the boxes but not as sprightly as C-Crosser)
Jeep Grand Cherokee (if cheap enough 2nd hand then economy not a problem)
and possibly a Kia Sorento
As it takes me years to get motivated I have plenty of time to decide, but once I decide it happens pretty much that day! I suppose that I have to decide how much off road ability I really am going to need so will keep an eye on things.
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