I was reading a classic car mag recently which featured an old advert for a new 1984 MG Metro turbo, I was amazed to see the purchase price was around £6500.
If the equivalent vehicle was available today I reckon it would sell for around £12000, which is quite low inflation over a quarter of a century.
I remember my parents house being worth around £25000 in the mid 80's , it's now worth 10 times that, so if cars had gone the way of houses your Metro would be costing £65000 these days. Blimey!
I also remember the Astra GTE costing around £17000 in the early 90's, the modern day VXR costs around the same today. Amazing really.
|
"Metro would be costing £65000"
Well if it did survive until now and cost that much you could rest assured that BL would have facelifted it with new badges and wheeltrims.
|
|
They might have fixed the minor design fault that meant the tyres span freely of the wheels under hard braking.
|
They might have fixed the minor design fault that meant the tyres span freely of the wheels under hard braking.
I wondered why mine kept going out of balance! What was so special about Metro wheels that made them do this?
|
|
The Metro, if I recall correctly, had special "metric" wheels, if an imperial tyre was fitted it was far enough out to be a problem
|
Yes what a great idea, fit metric size wheels so owners have a very limited choice of tyres for them.
On our MG Metro with the correct metric tyres fitted, the tyres used to constantly deflate too, we had them refitted a couple of times, but I believe it was due to porous alloy rims?
Its a good job the local garage airline was free in those days I used to have to use it twice a week.
I dont have any good memories about that car.
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 07/06/2008 at 12:21
|
|
|
|
Like DVD players, cars can be produced more cheaply and efficiently then they once were.
Houses stand on land in our small island. And we can't make any more of that!
But the thread title is a bit inaccurate: it may be cheaper to buy a small car than it was, but motoring only gets more expensive because the everyday costs of fuel, service, parts, VED and insurance keep going up.
The old joke about doubling the value of a Skoda by filling the tank keeps popping into my mind.
|
Surely the purchase price is the greatest expense on most (new) cars.
I may be wrong on this but insurance costs haven't increased hugely.
Although fuel costs are shocking these days, the greater efficiency of modern engines goes some way to reduce the impact.
I would agree that servicing costs seem to be through the roof these days.
Plus, if you buy the right car the VED is far less than it would have been many years ago.
|
There's truth in some of what you say, of course, but I spend more money motoring each year.
Are you a mole for the Treasury? (joke)
|
I do bare a passing resemblance to Morocco Mole.
You are right of course, it certainly doesn't feel like it's getting any cheaper.
It just shocked me that you must have needed a reasonable wedge to buy a very average car 25 years ago.
|
|
|
|
Houses stand on land in our small island. And we can't make any more of that!
The amount of land available isn't what has pushed up house prices. Maybe in Hong Kong, but not here--we have loads of space. Shortage of land is an estate agent myth. House prices here are driven and supported by easily available cheap credit; without it the vast majority of people could not afford to buy a house and prices would be flat. In recent years credit has been so cheap and so easy to get that it has brought into the market people who wouldn't otherwise have considered buying a house, and it has allowed some people to buy more than one. I'm not saying that's a bad thing necessarily, but it is available credit, not an actual shortage of physical property (outside of small, very specific geographical areas), that has been driving demand.
|
Mods - please delete this thread.
Yes, motoring is getting cheaper, but we want to keep it quiet.
If the 'Green' lobby get hold of this, or even worse, HMG hear that motoring enthusiasts are saying this, there will be calls for new and punitive taxes to be introduced.
;-)
|
|
|
|
The old joke about doubling the value of a Skoda by filling the tank keeps popping into my mind.
I put R400 worth of petrol into the car the other day.
My first car cost me R400 in 1983 - a Mk2 Cortina 1600 automatic.
As the Yankees say - go figure.
|
|
|
insurance keep going up.
I've just paid the lowest insurance premium I've ever had this week..
|
>> insurance keep going up. I've just paid the lowest insurance premium I've ever had this week..
Are you getting towards old man status of 25 by any chance ? You'll feel as though you've won the lottery as you approach 30... :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In 1967 I bought a 1.6 Hillman Minx for 46% of year's salary. In 2003 (the year I retired) I would have needed about the same percentage to buy an equivalent Focus.
|
The amount of land available isn't what has pushed up house prices. Maybe in Hong Kong but not here--we have loads of space.
Quite. There is 163000 acres of brownfield land available in the UK. We currently build over 60% of new houses on brownfield, and that is set to rise (and it should be a much bigger %age IMO - just dont grow any vegetables in your brownfield garden). ;o)
Car prices may not have risen like house prices have, but cars depreciate (now faster than ever), houses don't (in the long term).
Imagine buying a new £300k house and after living in it for 3 years you find its only worth £150k!
My motoring has not got cheaper, I will have to spend about £2500 on diesel this year. £1400 for fuel duty and VAT on fuel makes £185 VED look like small change.
:o(
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 07/06/2008 at 13:28
|
|
Anyway, house prices are going down now and the supposed 'demand' has suddenly become a myth. Lots of people can't get the finance together to buy a place and even if they can they are probably waiting for prices to fall further.
|
Quote...>>>If the 'Green' lobby get hold of this, or even worse, HMG hear that motoring enthusiasts are saying this, there will be calls for new and punitive taxes to be introduced.
Quite a lot of us backroomers would consider ourselves part of the green lobby. Those who are not are hastening the end of the motoring age.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 07/06/2008 at 13:52
|
Shortage of land is an estate agent myth. >>
You've not quite got my point, Baskerville, which is that a car is a very different thing to a house.
Having said that, do a little bit of research about who owns what in the way of land in the UK and then ask yourself what chance you have of buying a bit of it.
And Sofa Spud, we're all green up to a point. But even Friends of the Earth (I think it was) said the other day that the VED increase "justification" on older cars gave green taxes a bad name.
Edited by Optimist on 07/06/2008 at 14:42
|
I cant believe anybody believes the cost of motoring is getting cheaper (in actual terms)!"
The biggest cost of any new car is its depreciation. With cars getting scrapped earlier because of repairs being uneconomical due to manufacturers pushing owners back to dealers even on old vehicles they are lasting shorter time and therefore costing far more.
Servicing and repairs is now specialised and nearly evrybody has to pay for it; whereas a lot of people did their own in years gone by.
Fuel economy now, partly due to the added weight of all the safety features and stuff, is no beter now (on average car) than it was back in the 70's. 30mpg was not unusual then; its not unusual now!
Comparing price to a house is not equal either! To afford the same house you could buy in the 60/70/80's as a 1st timer would mean you would have to be on far higher than the average wage now is (which is falling imo too).
Owning a car now is fast becoming a luxury for many people (that they cant actually afford too!).
|
Comparing price to a house is not equal either! To afford the same house you could buy in the 60/70/80's as a 1st timer would mean you would have to be on far higher than the average wage now is (which is falling imo too).
I agree. In 1955 a friend (who was a joiner, so not on a high wage) bought a third of an acre prime building plot for 5 months wages. You couldn't do that now.
|
|
|
I don't think depreciation is any better or worse than it used to be. Cars are scrapped when there is a more economical option available. Why drive around in an old banger when you could have a 10 year old Mondeo for £800.
Servicing is more technical and pricier than in the past, but it also only needs to be done at ever increasing intervals, so overall is probably no more expensive than it used to be.
30mpg was a pretty good figure in 70's, but now there are plenty of mid-size cars that can return more than 50 mpg. This was unimaginable 25 years ago.
People had to know how to fix their own cars in the past because they were so unreliable. Do you really think it would be a step forward to return to the days of setting up the points and adjusting your carb.
The house price comparison isn't stricly fair, but it is a comparison between the 2 most expensive things most people ever buy.
|
The point I wa trying to make is that you used to be able to own a car on a shoestring budget.
Now its possibly the biggest expense (especially so if not owning your own home!) of the household budget.
And for many its getting to be an item they cant afford. So cheaper? In real terms? Absoloutely 100% definitely not imo!
For an example, look howmany people struggle to pay for mot on their car and then say you will have to leave the service because I cant afford it. The number of these cases is rising.
Time will tell, but I see the not too distant future (5 - 10 years possibly) where people will consider being carless because of expense.
|
The point I was trying to make is that you used to be able to own a car on a shoestring budget.
Agreed,
I think rising costs is one reason why so many drive untaxed/uninsured/unroadworthy cars.
Not having a car in our 'must have' society is not an option some will consider.
|
Possibly, but I think the reason so many drive illegal motors is they know the chances of getting caught are slim and the punishment negligible. It makes financial sense to not bother with the insurance, MOT etc.
|
So you agree because of costs people ar not bothering with tax and insurance?
But you base a comparison of motoring costs against houses only?
Not quite sure I see your point.
Looking at the state of cars I see, and how people struggle to pay car bills, and how depreciation is a major cost of car ownership, and how more and more people are running those 10 year old motors longer than they used to I dont see how motoring can be cheaper now than it was!
may just have to agree to disagree
|
|
"Do you really think it would be a step forward to return to the days of setting up the points and adjusting your carb."
It would be a welcome step backward - except perhaps when it got to balancing 3 worn SUs on a 10 years old car!
As to land values, all the handy local filling stations here have gone - seemingly because they were worth more as building sites.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Probably, when I passed my test petrol was about 70p a gallon. When I got my first car in 1978 I was earning about £2500 a year and petrol was 72p a gallon.
My salary has increased about forty fold in that time and petrol eight fold (ish) so by simple expedient of selective maths motoring is getting cheaper.
But we all know it ain't. Cars may be cheaper than equivalents of a few years ago but you'd hope so in the light of manufacturing advances, reuse of major assemblies across models, shift of manufacture to cheaper markets, etc, etc...
|
Motoring getting cheaper?
If you had access to data from the time the motor car was invented, and plotted the average hourly wage against the "full-life" cost of motoring for any particular car, then no doubt you could compare these costs for various makes and models.
My gut feeling is that you would find that overall, motoring is very cheap today compared to 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 years ago.
Economists use a measure known as "purchasing power parity" to take account of currency values in different countries, and that could be factored in to compare international costs.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
|
|
My OH's theory on these things is that products are much cheaper to buy but cost more to run (houses being the exception of course). When I left uni in 1985 I remember a Fiesta being around £5.5 k - they are not much more now, but petrol and insurance certainly seem to cost relatively more now than they did back then.
|
|
|
|
......... in 1978 I was earning about £2500 a year ......... My salary has increased about forty fold .............
Well, lucky you. £100,000 per annum is inconceivable to most of us mere mortals.
|
|
Sorry if that offends anyone..... I'm the first to admit that life has dealt me a good hand (so far)
|
|
|
|
|
"I also remember the Astra GTE costing around £17000 in the early 90's, the modern day VXR costs around the same today."
Given that the larger Cavalier SRi was about £12,500 I don't think an Astra GTE was £17,000!
|
|
Sadly I cannot prove this but I think I am right.
|
I'm surprised no-one has spotted the elephant in the room. Of course cars & motoring (..and most else besides..) aren't getting cheaper - we're (or we were) getting richer. The simple measure of getting richer is that (many more) things appear & are, affordable.
Apart from the recent house price bubble (but renting is still a steal..) & local fuel/oil prices most other goods & services are mostly affordable by most people. We'll have to get used to a general, slow decline in wealth I'm afraid - other regions are doing rather better than us now. Best to forget about notions of cheap/dear etc., it's all to do with wealth - ask any Mayfair resident, I doubt if petrol price rises bother them.
|
Well, thanks Woodbines, I'm not even sure what you are saying but it seems pretty bleak.
Thanks Man.
|
|
Mrs P bought a 5 door 2.0 Sport Astra MK3 in 1995 - Fully spec'd it cost her around 15k. It was a good car with a flawed engine.
|
I've not been able to prove my claim about the price of the Astra...
But I have found that a basic 1.4 lx Escort was £10000 in 1990, the equivalent focus is around £12000 now. So the cost has increased by £2000 over the years.
The hot hatch Focus is now £19000, so it's not unimaginable that the cost of the equivalent Astra may have been £2000 less than it is now.
I think that might make sense. Or not.
|
If you merely consider the number of people afford to own a car, then yes, it has definitely got cheaper over last 50 years [especially true in developing countries]
If you compare total cost of car ownership over last year, I can definitely say it has become more expensive.
Cars became cheaper over time, however, cost of labour became more expensive! People are forced to abandon their cars because they are not economic to repair any more.
Motoring has become affordable compared to distant past but definitely it didn't become cheaper.
|
|
It may well be possible to argue that motoring is cheaper. I really don't know. Even if it is, it still feels expensive. Most of the cost element of it feels a bit similar to the emotions one feels about a visit to the dentist. You know it is probably a good thing but...... :-(
|
|
|
|
