The other day I was thinking about cars that were totally new designs that carried over no significant components from previous models.
A few I can think of are the Rover P6 2000 of 1963, the Hillman Imp from around the same time and the Citroen GS of the early 70's. Another obvious one is the VW Beetle. Presumably the Bugatti Veyron is was an all-new design too, even if its W16 engine is loosely based on 2 Audi V8s. I think the Mercedes A-class and the Smart owed nothing to previous designs.
Cars that don't count include the Mini and Morris Minor, since they borrowed engines from existing models.
What other clean-sheet cars can people come up with?
It wasn't meant to say 'Rover' in the title but it forced me to choose a make before I could post!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 25/02/2008 at 19:22
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SAAB 99 (When they fitted their own engine and got rid of that apology of a unit from Coventry)
659.
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If you're going to ignore the 1948 Minor (remember there was a Morris Minor in the 20's/30's)and the Mini - both revolutionary designs on the basis of 'borrowed' engines, then the Imp must go too. It 'borrowed' its lightweight aluminium Coventry Climax engine from a portable fire pump. Ok, not a previous car, but certainly borrowing of a major component.
I guess if you go back to the early days of motoring most cars were 'clean sheet' designs, although several used proprietary engines.
JS
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what about the wankel engine , revolutionary in more ways than one?
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It wasn't meant to say 'Rover' in the title but it forced me to choose a make before I could post!
This should only happen in Technical Matters. Over here in discussion providing you select a category from the drop down list you shouldn't need to select make/model to be able to post.
DD.
ps, Rover now removed from your post, btw
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 25/02/2008 at 19:30
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The Rover P6 was the first one that sprang to my mind. But if the P6 was a 'clean sheet' design (and I owned one and loved it!) why did it come out as a crib of the Citroen DS?
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Here's a few
The first fwd Escort (1980) with the CVH engine
1976 Fiesta
1980 fwd Astra
first fwd Cavalier (also 1980?).
Rover SD1 with the 2300 and 2600 engines.
The Audi 100 with low Cd
First Audi A8 with aluminium body will also.
Volvo 850 was brand new with new 5cyl engines
Volvo S80 2.9 with 6 cyl engine
Most Mazda RXs with rotary engines have had a total engine resdesign for the new body
Toyota Prius, MR2
Hondas Insight, Mk 1 Civic, Mk1 Accord, Mk 1 Legend and NSX
Most Ferraris, Lamborghinis and other weird exotica
Citroen 2CV, BX, SM
Alfasud
Fiat Uno
And the first 4wd Subaru!
just a quick thought!
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The Mk1 Mondeo? Although perhaps the 1.6/1.8 Zetecs had crept into the Escort by then.
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Audi A2 - aluminium body, 1.4TDi with a 1.2TDi option available on the continent.
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The first series Honda Legend had a re-jig of a formula two racing engine that Honda had had lying around for years.
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Although the Mondeo's use Zetec engines they were designed for the Mondeo too. it is just the Zetec engine was ready to produce before the Mondeo hence why it appeared in Escorts first.
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I don't think the NSU Ro80 owed much to what went before but maybe this isn't the best example to quote. I nominate the Fiat 128 as it had a new belt driven OHC engine , transversely mounted with separate gearbox , simple but effective strut suspension and a stiff (for the 70's) bodyshell. Thus it set the basic layout for the Golf, Astra and Escorts that followed.
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NSu is a perfect example of a clean sheet design as is the Fiat 128. We had both in our family. The 128 facelift was a very good car and very nippy with the 1.3 engine.
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Issetta Bubble-car with the steering wheel that was mounted on the door? and the Messhershmitd (sp?) 3 wheeler, or was that just wheels added to a fighter cockpit?
Billy
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Jowett Javelin, late forties. Alfasud. VW Beetle. Thirties Lancia Aprilia. Citroen Light 15 (although the engine may have been a development of an earlier unit). Model T Ford.
Edited by Lud on 26/02/2008 at 15:42
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Daimler Dart (SP250)? , tho' the engine was rumored to be based on 4 Triumph V twins
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Not a rumour but it was parallel twins - the 'Speed Twin' engine designed for Triumph in about 1936 by Edward Turner, who later moved to Daimler (then owned by BSA - they were the days, eh?) and gave them the development of his original idea. Fantastic engine. My son sent me an excited text the other day, saying 'our' 1964 V8 Daimler saloon had just overtaken him, sounding even nicer than it did 20 years ago!
Edited by mike hannon on 26/02/2008 at 20:30
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Re the Daimler Dart 2.5 V8 engine I fitted one of these into an AC Ace instead of it's original Bristol and at the same time fitted an upside down Minor 1000 steering rack i/o the cam original (3/4 turn lock to lock) - seems sacrilege now but I was a bit younger and carefree in those days - as you say super engine even unmodified and with the Ace's comparatively light wt of abt 16 cwt it would accelerate in top from about 500 rpm - sorry going off thread I fear
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As well as that small V8, very nice in the Jaguar-shape saloon, Daimler or very likely BMC or whatever, but the Daimler division, made a very pokey 4.5 litre which they put in a saloon called, I think, the Majestic Major. It did 120, and accelerated and handled too for its day.
Yet another couple of assets wasted by the pot-bellied money-grubbing workers and greedy idle mediocre carphound suits of managers in that nexus of companies. They didn't even have the sense to throw away the useless V8 in the Stag and use that one instead. Carphounds.
Edited by Lud on 26/02/2008 at 23:18
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OK, I climb down over the Hillman Imp - I'd forgotten the engine was based on a Coventry-Climax design.
Wasn't the daimler V8 originally intended to be air-cooled but modified before production to use water cooling?
Not only was the Rover P6 2000 (later 2200) a clean-sheet design, but nothing was carried over from it to its successor, the SDI. The P6B, of course, which was the 3500V8 version, is a different matter as the engine was borrowed from the 3.5 litre V8 version of the P5 and it was carried over to the SD1, Range Rover and many other applications. And Rover got the V8 design from Buick, who had abandoned the project.
The Citroen DS might have been an inspiration behind the Rover P6 but the only real similarity between the cars is around the windscreen and roof area. Prototype P6's had a more DS-like front, with bonnet sloping down to bumper. The Rover T4 gas turbine car was based on a pre-production Rover 2000. It was a brilliant publicity stunt as it paved the way for the revolutionary new saloon in 1963. I read that the P6 engine bay and its complicated front suspension were designed to accommodate a gas turbine if that option became viable.
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OK I climb down over the Hillman Imp - I'd forgotten the engine was based on a Coventry-Climax design.
I don't think you need to SS. The Coventry Climax unit from which the Imp engine was developed was not fitted to cars but was a trailer pump engine for firefighting during the Blitz, light in weight, powerful and reliable...
The first and very beautiful front engined Lotus Elite, with a gearbox at the back, used a small Coventry Climax based engine too. Jack Brabham's garage used to modify Triumph Heralds by fitting a much gutsier Coventry Climax engine and doing something to the brakes (and also, one must hope, the tail-happy swing axle handling). Not cheap but much admired by those they didn't terrify.
Coventry Climax was a jewel in this country's engineering crown at a time when its glitter still outshone much of the world. But things fall apart, innit?
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