High Mileage

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Mon 10 Jun 2002 14:04
High Mileage - ian
Now I mentioned this before regarding auction buyers but it got lost in the answers on GTC versus auctions. High mileage e.g 35,000 in a 3 year lease how wearing is this technically? it seems to be the best way to pick up a modern well equipped car at a low price. Does anyone have any experience of this kind of purchase/maintain one? do they feel "saggy" or in the extreme is it no more wearing to be sat on the monday in fifth than outside the house cold and wet!! (the car that is)
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 14:25
High Mileage - Toad, of Toad Hall.
The two company cars owners in my extended family do *well* over 100k in their two years and both return their cars looking and driving like new.

The last Volvo to go back lost a bit of oil towards the end and a Toyota Carina 'E' needed a steering rack and some tickover issues resolved... Apart from that, all of them have been literally like new. [1]


[1] Actually two were crash damaged too. That does them no good at all so they'd have been bad buys...


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Parp, Parp!
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 14:38
High Mileage - Cliff Pope
A high mileage younger car is surely likely to be in better condition than a low mileage one, because it will have done a high proportion of those miles cruising at motorway speeds. The oil will be in better condition, and the gearbox, clutch and steering will have had less of a hammering.
A low mileage car will probably have done mostly shorter journeys, with cold oil, etc etc.
For some odd reason people are willing to pay more for worn-out vehicles.
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 15:33
High Mileage - Calling David W - ian
What's the view of the master mechanic (!) of the relationship between age and mileage, is this high mileage 3 year old business the relative bargain it seems. Do cars that have done big miles but relatively few stop starts compare well with a 3 year old with much lower mileage but similar number of cold starts. Consumables are all replaced with genuine parts under the lease anyway, is most part detrioration age related and not use related. Thanks, Ian
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 15:49
High Mileage - Calling David W - M.M
Steady Ian, there are many here with equal or greater experience!

Wear on a car is related to (and not in any order)...

1. Mileage
2. Age
3. Type of use
4. Maintenance quality

These factors can combine in many ways to produce different conditions for similar looking cars.

Broadly speaking a car up to three years old driven in a reasonable way and maintained to the schedules can cover a very high mileage each year with little trouble.

If you then take such a vehicle out into normal use and maintain it with regard to sensible (as per HJs advice) intervals it will last ages.

At the right price I would be happy to consider up to around 35K for each of the first three years.

I mean think about it...my Xantia is an excellent relible vehicle at nearly 100K and almost ten years old. So wouldn\'t it be an even better car at the same mileage but only three years old?

David W
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 17:33
High Mileage - jc
35000 in 3 years-high milage???. Our family cars do that;the last three cars I have owned were Panda(179000m),Fiesta(157000m) & an XR4i(156000m).
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 17:42
High Mileage - Rob E
High mileage on a relatively young car can only mean good news:

On a lease it will have been well maintained at the recommended intervals.

Likely to have just done lots of motorway cruising: little wear to clutch and gears, and no problem of 'short-run syndrome'.

Just be wary of interior wear, as high mileage over little time gives seats etc a bit of a hammering, but most are very hardy these days. Look out for signs of spilt coffee etc and general internal neglect.

Mechanically, as long as correctly maintained, high mileage should not put you off. You can save a fortune too!
Rob E
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 18:45
High Mileage - Godfrey H {P}
When I was trade plate driving for a local garage some of the best cars I drove were high mileage cars "direct" from a leasing company. Have a look under the bonnet see if all the fluid levels are topped up and the drive belts are in good condition. Is the oil relatively clean. Some cars were better than others due to who has driven them. Cosmetic appearance can be a good guide to this. Is the paint work in pristine condition or has it got scuffs and dents, are there fine scratches due to the car being put through an automatic car wash regularly? Same goes for the interior. When buying at auction listen for the word "direct" and also mention of service history. A good high mileage car will not feel saggy.
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 17:15
High Mileage - Flat in Fifth
Good advice here, the only thing I would add is that it could be worth making contact with someone who works for an outfit that has a decent sized fleet. In that way you have some degree of extra knowledge beyond your own observations as to whether the car has been looked after as if it were the drivers own car, or one of those merchants who respond "what bonnet catch?"

Lets face it within most companies you know who the good guys are. Plus the company might be willing to sell you an ex fleet car direct. Well worth a try in my opinion.
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 18:49
High Mileage - jud
With the 20k service intervals now common i predict the seeming "popular" high mileage over normal (say 10k a year cars) will prove to be a less of a bargain.
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 19:05
High Mileage - Richard Hall
The most reliable cars I have owned: (with mileage when sold)

VW Golf 1800 (95,000)
Audi Coupe GT (129,000)
Audi Coupe 20V (141,000 and still going strong)
Hillman Avenger (127,000)
Bedford Rascal van (120,000)
Toyota Hilux (now up to 180,000 with its new owner)

Cars of below average reliability:
Vauxhall Astra (65,000)
Citroen AX (60,000)
Triumph Herald (50,000 miles, but too old to really count)

My father's BMW did 350,000 miles on the original engine and gearbox before it was written off in an accident.

The idea that a car is worn out at 100K is a hangover from the days of Ford Anglias and the like - with regular servicing and reasonably sympathetic driving, a modern well designed car should last pretty much indefinitely.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 07:52
High Mileage - Toad, of Toad Hall.
> sympathetic driving

What is this 'sympathetic driving', of which you speak?




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Parp, Parp!
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 09:42
High Mileage - BrianW
Is that a serious question, Toad, or is the smiley missing?
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 09:54
High Mileage - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Is that a serious question, Toad, or is the smiley missing?


Is *that* a serious question, Brian, or is there a smiley missing?

;-)


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Parp, Parp!
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 07:48
High Mileage - Toad, of Toad Hall.
With the 20k service intervals now common i predict the seeming
"popular" high mileage over normal (say 10k a year cars) will
prove to be a less of a bargain.


High milage cars are getting near monthly services. I doubt that doubling that to two months will make any odds.

*I* reckon that the 20k service intervals will destroy mostly private cars that do two short journeys a day.


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Parp, Parp!
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Mon 10 Jun 2002 19:49
High Mileage - John S
ian

I'd concur with the general sentiment here that a well maintained high miler, taken into gentler use and looked after will run for a good few more miles. Certainly the purchase cost should reflect the miles.

The only downside is that you start to can get the odd 'one-off' type failures at these 6-figure mileages. You'll probably find at purchase that the dampers are well past their best, and a change will do wonders for ride quality. It's probably worth considering changing drive belts and hoses to maintain reliability. In addition, items like alternators, power steering racks and pumps, suspension joints and bushes, starter motors etc. can fail at these mileages. Maybe not a reasons to reject such cars, but don't expect to spend nothing at purchase, and perhaps don't expect totally trouble free motoring.

Regards

John S
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 11:18
High Mileage - jc
A little thing I've never seen mentioned anywhere in all this correspondence-valve rotation.On most engines,when the speed gets past 4500-5000 the valves start to rotate-in fact,some manufacturers design their collets to encourage it.The valves rotate against their seats evening out wear and stopping burning.An occasional blast(Essex tune-up not Italian) is good for the engine.
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 11:35
High Mileage - Toad, of Toad Hall.
>>An occasional blast is good for the engine.

And if an occasional blast is good, think how much better thrashing it to within an inch of it's life day in day out for three years is!

YKIMS!

;-)


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Parp, Parp!
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 12:30
High Mileage - jc
How else do you think my Panda got to 179,000m.Even then it was the body not the mechanical parts.
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 13:58
High Mileage - dave18
The 309 1.4i is quieter (ie hardly any tappet noise now) and more responsive after several runs through to max speed running through to the limiter each time.
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Tue 11 Jun 2002 15:50
High Mileage - Cliff Pope
I have heard that as a general rule of thumb, whatever mileage a car has done when you buy it, you can expect to double it.
Not perhaps entirely true, but true enough to be worth quoting?
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Thu 13 Jun 2002 19:52
High Mileage - Richard Turpin
Cliff,
I had better not buy a car with only 5,000 miles on it then, otherwise it's going to pack up at 10,000. But if I sell at 10,000, the next person will presumably get 20,000 out of it. Simple. Perpetual motion!
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Fri 26 Jul 2002 13:49
High Mileage - svpworld
I firmly believe its a safer bet to buy a young car with high mileage , than an old car with low mileage. Why? As its been said the young car will have mostly motorway cruising mileage, it will have had time to slowly wear in and what's more, you know it will have had thorough servicing and all the nitty gritty problems mostly ironed out. There will be little in the way of corrosion, it will be a more recent model so you get modern engineering and more revisions (hopefully less problems!) and of course all your mates and onlookers will think you got a newer car as they wont see the odometer!
I am on my second car now (Omega auto 2.0 GLS) which is 3 yrs old with 89K on the clock. It drives like new and looks like new, yet cost me less than a quarter of a new one! My previous car was also a fleet car, an L reg Cavalier 2.0 LSi 8V which I done 160,000 miles without problems and on the first clutch! All it needed was a water pump and a head gasket after 155,000 miles.
Of course quite often high mileage engines begin to idle a bit more shakey and burn a bit of oil, but look after them (dont drive them too hard!) and they should go on and on. I think regular oil changes are the cheapest way to keep things inshape, filter also!

Finally what are your views on supermarket petrol? I often fill up at tescos but is this false economy? Am I better off using shell or other grade to preserve life in my engine?

Simon
SVpworld

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Fri 26 Jul 2002 20:04
High Mileage - Humpy
My citroen zx 2.0i Volcane(M) was a lease car for the first 3 years of it's life, covering 55.000 and has now covered 124000m. It's been very reliable, no problem at all. I would always buy this type of vehicle. Company maintained, serviced, motorway miles etc.
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Fri 26 Jul 2002 23:51
High Mileage - Armitage Shanks{P}
I bought a pristine Sierra some years ago, 3 years old and 9,000 miles. It ran very well for 100,000 miles but I had to spend money on getting the cam followers replaced within weeks of buying it (short runs, cold oil etc). Not a problem once the money had been spent!
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Wed 25 Sep 2002 22:45
High Mileage - Dave_TD
You should be able to double the mileage on any car you buy??? Even my P-plate 1997 Peugeot 405 D Turbo that I sold in May last year with 351,000m on the clock? Xo)

I'm currently running a Y-reg Skoda Octavia estate, up to 110,000 miles so far and absolutely no probs at all, doesn't rattle, doesn't burn oil between 10,000m service intervals. Got this one for 3yrs at least, any offers in May '04 will be welcomed... Anticipated mileage 250,000, full main dealer s/h.
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Wed 25 Sep 2002 23:14
High Mileage - PhilW
All this talk of high mileage - thought you might be interested in this posted on a BX message board.

Posted by Mike 1703 on September 24, 2002, 12:58 pm , in reply to "Perfect car?"
194.117.133.84

I drive a BX diesel which I use as a taxi. It's my 5th. BX 19 diesel & all gave me the greatest satisfaction in both reliability & economy. I still have my 1987 BX which I cannibalise for spares, not that I need many. It was retired for 'scrap' after a crash @ 350,000 miles. It's replacement was sold off for less than the value of its parts @ 450,000 miles; one has been retired to my driveway @ 740,000 miles & my current workhorse is now @ 380,000 miles. I've never changed a wheel-bearing, only one gearbox and a few suspension bits; one major engine overhaul; two head-jobs but never a tow-home failure [unless you count the one time I let the cam-belt snap!].

Who's going to make an offer for the 740,000 miler - after all it should do the same mileage again shouldn't it??!!
PhilW
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Sat 23 Nov 2002 18:14
High Mileage - J ROLES
REPLYING TO YOUR QUESTION ON THE HONEST JOHN WEBSITE: 'Who's going to make an offer for the 740,000 miler' I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS MEGA MILER BX.

IF YOU WANT TO SELL IT LET ME KNOW, I WOULD BE INTERESTED.


MANY THANKS



JONATHAN ROLES

JRROLES@HOTMAIL.COM
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Sun 24 Nov 2002 19:42
High Mileage - PhilW
Sorry Jonathan but if you read the post again you will realise that I was just quoting someone else - I have no knowledge of the car or how to get in touch with Mike 1703 who made the posting.
Philw
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Sun 24 Nov 2002 02:03
High Mileage - Blue {P}
You should be able to double the mileage on any car
you buy??? Even my P-plate 1997 Peugeot 405 D Turbo that
I sold in May last year with 351,000m on the clock?
Xo)


I think my mate would agree with you, he managed to add 10,000 miles to his Escort before it finally was giving up the ghost and fortunately for him was stolen and written off. The car had done about 200,000 miles, so he barely added 5% to the mileage! :O
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Sun 24 Nov 2002 04:28
High Mileage - Dave_TD
I used to sub for a courier firm that ran F and G reg escort diesel vans, their drivers were a bit crackers but they got several escorts up to 400,000 before writing them off!
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Mon 25 Nov 2002 08:41
High Mileage - Dogbreath
Lots of people here enthusing about high mileage - no one however has mentioned that selling the car high mileage car in a few years will be almost impossible.
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Mon 25 Nov 2002 09:38
High Mileage - Cliff Pope
Lots of people here enthusing about high mileage - no one
however has mentioned that selling the car high mileage car in
a few years will be almost impossible.


But that is the point - high milers are to buy, treasure, service, and keep to the death, not to sell.
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Mon 25 Nov 2002 09:55
High Mileage - Glutton
>>But that is the point - high milers are to buy, treasure, service, and keep to the death, not to sell.

Very true... but if you do want to sell them, thats what ebay is for
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Mon 25 Nov 2002 22:53
High Mileage - Dave_TD
Bumped into an ex-colleague today, he's just written off his gas-converted X-reg Laguna estate, at 210,000m! Ouch...
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Tue 26 Nov 2002 11:22
High Mileage - sorrera
Bumped into an ex-colleague today, he's just written off his gas-converted
X-reg Laguna estate, at 210,000m! Ouch...


Writing off a new high miler may be a pretty good way of turnig the car into cash. As has been discussed selling high milers is not easy. Writing off cars tend to give you less than fair value, but does this value offered by the Insurance company change if your car is high mileage?
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Tue 26 Nov 2002 23:07
High Mileage - Dave_TD
Yes, they pay out market value on the vehicle according to its condition just before the accident.
The guy in question wouldn't have been trying to turn it into cash, he got the car for an absolute song when it was new, and was planning on keeping it until it was 4 years old.
I know someone else who gives their car a haircut before MoTs to keep its insurance value up, in case it gets crashed and trailered away in between.
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Wed 27 Nov 2002 21:27
High Mileage - PhilW
What's this guy's job - presumably taxi - driver or similar? 'cos at that mileage how does he find time to work? Isn't it about 400 miles a day (5 day week) which averaging 50 mph (bl**dy good going in UK) is 8 hrs per day driving - or is my maths skill in inverse proportion to the amount of wine I have drunk this evening......??!!
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Thu 28 Nov 2002 01:48
High Mileage - Dave_TD
He's a courier driver, delivers light parcels, computer spares, mechanical spare parts, documents etc all over the UK for a living. Nobody says they all have to slum it in a noisy basic van!
His car is(was?) plated as a cab though, he does a special school run for us on a Monday morning and Friday evening, Bedford to Bristol, and you need a plated car for that.
He used to cab it as well between parcels, until someone pointed a gun in his face one night... I don't blame him for sticking to the motorways now!
I squeeze some courier work in around the people, but parcels aren't as lucrative or as flexible, he covers 100,000m a year to my 84,000m, we make very similar amounts of profit at the end of the day.
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Wed 27 Nov 2002 19:17
High Mileage - jc
We've had Escort diesels go over 500,000;body wasn't much cop by then but engine/g'box still good.
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