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saloon cars - whats the point..... - christo

A chap in our office always buys saloon cars, always has and always will do. He likes the security of having a lockable boot and keeping stuff out of sight, harms way etc. Problem is his car isn't versatile enough for him and ends up taking a trailer on holiday with all the holiday luggage!! The trailer is probably not that secure either.

Myself and others have tried to persuade him to buy a hatchback or estate but he is very much set in his ways, bless him! I can appreciate that some of the larger british, german or japanese saloons (Bentley, Merc, BMW, Audi, Lexus etc..) are very nice places to be and have huge boots but what is the point of a Focus size saloon? Other things come into play like does a medium size saloon depreciate more? On the other hand, if less saloon cars are sold does this make them more sought after by people who still buy them?

I suppose that manufacturers will continue to offer a saloon version of models they sell and obviously take note of sales compared to other versions of the model on sale and indeed recent models like SUV's, 'soft' roaders etc. Possibly the medium sized saloon will be dropped from production in the next 5 years......
saloon cars - whats the point..... - *Gongfarmer*
I believe in other european markets saloons are regarded as more upmarket than hatches, making it worthwhile tooling up for them. UK sales alone would certainly not justify it. Saloons can be longer than the related hatch giving a bigger boot cpacity and most include a folding rear seat. Second hand values tend be much poorer than for their hatchback siblings making them a canny buy for the skint family man.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - rtj70
The irony is for most cars like the Focus, the rear seats fold and so it is possible to access the boot if you break into the car. My Passat used to have lockable rear seats.

I like the idea of the new Skoda Superb. It is a hatchback and saloon. You can open the boot like on a normal saloon but flick a switch and the glass lift and it's like a hatchback. It's also a very big boot as it's a big car.

I don't see the point of some smaller saloons because the styling of the boot is almost an after thought making the car look less attractive than the hatchback.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Waino
The irony is for most cars like the Focus the rear seats fold and so it is possible to access the boot if you break into the car. My Passat used to have lockable rear seats.>>


I can't understand why manufacturers don't see this as an issue. Some years ago, a collegue's Golf hatch was broken into and the thieves managed to access the boot via the back seats from inside the car. Yet, in SWMBO's old Metro, the seats could only be released via latches in the boot.

I would always prefer an estate for its versatility but, if/when we go down to one car in the family, then it will be a hatchback; estates don't have any security.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - henry k
>>The irony is for most cars like the Focus the rear seats fold and so it is possible to access the boot if you break into the car. My Passat used to have lockable rear seats.

>>I can't understand why manufacturers don't see this as an issue.

It is not a case of lockable rear seats it is a case of a cardboard rear parcel shelf :-(

saloon cars - whats the point..... - henry k
but what is the point of a Focus size saloon?

>>
Well they appear to be the norm in the USA.
>>I suppose that manufacturers will continue to offer a saloon version of models they sell
<<
Perhaps you are not aware but for some strange reason, unlike many other markets , Brits prefer hatchbacks.

No suppose about it, many saloons are made and are not sold in the UK.

e.g Yaris with a boot (was called a Echo) sold in Aus and USA . It has gone on for years. There was for example a Victoria, an Austin 1100 with a boot.

I always buy saloons - my last was a Sierra now a have a Mondeo.
I find them quieter than hatchbacks and no need to heave a hatch up and down.
The advantage of a hatchback? - oh yes a rear wiper :-)
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Falkirk Bairn
>> but what is the point of a Focus size saloon?


The British Market is different

Hatches outsell saloons in the nearly all sectors where there is a choice.
A "top of the range car in UK" usually has leather seats
We pay extra for metallic paint - no cost option in parts of Europe
Standard fit Sound systems Spec in UK cars often exceeds that on EU comparative model
(CD as Std, more speakers, higher spec model)
Bigger wheels / Alloys as Standard on all but basic spec.......EU alloys often an option @ £££s

In return we pay more for the car and pay infinitely more for servicing

The saloon has the benefit of often being quieter on the road.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Bromptonaut
There was for example a Victoria an Austin 1100
with a boot.


Surely the 1100/1300 came as a saloon or an estate, though it's predecessor the A40 was an one of the first hatchbacks.

The Victoria (BL Authi/Spain?) had a bigger boot than the bogstan 1100 though.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Pugugly {P}
There's quite a bit of stuff on the web about how the 1300 developed (or evolved even) in Australasia - I think it was on that excellent Austin-Rover.org website with links out to Australian sites.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - henry k
>>The Victoria (BL Authi/Spain?) had a bigger boot than the bogstan 1100 though.
>>
You are correct. I was using it as an old example of a significant varient that was not on sale in the UK ( especially as it started life as home grown) as opposed to a regular model not brought to the UK.

Another example of unpopular saloon models on the UK market
I hired a Corolla saloon in South Africa and was surprised to find they were sold in the UK but I have yet to see one. ( only 4 currently for sale country wide on Autotrader)
saloon cars - whats the point..... - rjr
Myself and others have tried to persuade him to buy a hatchback or estate but
he is very much set in his ways bless him! I can appreciate that some
of the larger british german or japanese saloons (Bentley Merc BMW Audi Lexus etc..) are
very nice places to be and have huge boots but what is the point of
a Focus size saloon?


Whilst it doesn't have the flexibility of a hatchback or an estate the luggage capacity of the focus saloon is surprisingly high (assuming I can read the brochure correctly, BMW figures from HJ's cbcb).


Focus Hatchback 385 litres
BMW 3-Series Saloon 460 litres
Focus Estate 482 litres
BMW 5-Series Saloon 520 litres
Focus Saloon 526 litres

saloon cars - whats the point..... - oldtoffee
Does a saloon have so much less space than a hatch? Less practical for transporting bulky stuff like a washing machine but for 99% of general use I don't think so. The Focus saloon as an example is 160 mm longer than the hatch with all the difference being in the rear overhang. I prefer the look of the 4 door Focus II and Focus III over the hatches (definitely not the Focus I though.) Factor in the rarity factor as well as perceived greater security and I can see why people buy them (biggest market must be the States where the hatch is less popular

The likes of BMW, Audi, and Mercedes have 5 door hatches but for some model ranges they call them Touring, Avant or Estate and charge you £1000+ extra for them.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - daveyjp
I have yet to see a current Focus Saloon, yet I see new Jettas on a regular basis. Do Jetta drivers not see them as Golf saloons?

saloon cars - whats the point..... - Altea Ego
If the saloon is handsome, then why not. (most tho are hatchbacks with a boil on the back)

Saloons are quieter, more secure and tend to ride better. I have hatchbacks because of the dog.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Chad.R
Handy in hot countries too - the occupants can stay nice and cool in the air-conditioned interior of the saloon whilst the "driver" loads/unloads the luggage.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Falkirk Bairn
Handy in hot countries too - the occupants can stay nice and cool in the
air-conditioned interior of the saloon whilst the "driver" loads/unloads the luggage.


Hence popularity of Peugeot 306/307 saloons with Spanish Taxi drivers
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Round The Bend
I'm the owner of a very rare Mondeo saloon. Given the choice I would have gone for the Hatchback but in reality, I've never missed the h/b option.

Daftest saloon I can recall was the Nova version of the 80s. Totally pointless (and ugly).

saloon cars - whats the point..... - Waino
Was the 'Belmont' the booted version of the Astra? That was an ugly beast.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - 1066
i still think the pininfarina designed 405 saloon was very good looking..
it sold millions and with no hatchback version at all.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - *Gongfarmer*
I think the booted Skoda Fabia picked up the Novas (aged) fans with its dashing good looks.....
saloon cars - whats the point..... - pd
Haven't looked that closely at the Jetta, but the Bora had a much larger boot than the comparable Golf model.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - henry k
Yaris / Echo saloon
www.samsclubauto.com/reviews/2007_Toyota_Yaris.asp
A much nicer looking saloon than the earier model.

This shows the boot of a Yaris / Echo ;-
tinyurl.com/ynt7gv

another advantage of a boot - it is stronger
members.cox.net/bbulla/yaris.png

Another advantage of the Focus saloon is that it has two reversing lights and TWO rear fog lights just like my Mondeo. None of this cheap skate approach. :-)
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Ruperts Trooper
I made a point of ordering an Astra-G (mk4) as a saloon - it's a huge boot, the bodyshell is stiffer which improves the handling, the aerodynamics are better (cD 0.291 compared to 0.309 of the hatch), the rear window self-cleans and they're unusual.

If a saloon version of Astra-H (mk5) had been available in UK I'd have bought one.

If saloon and estate versions are made of a particular model, I don't see the point of a hatchback - it's just an estate without the space.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - El Hacko
or, put it another way, an estate without the length - long live the versatile hatchback, I say

EH
saloon cars - whats the point..... - rtj70
And when you open the boot it's not so obvious what's in there to onlookers.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - adsk
I am unusual in 2 respects. 1. I own the saloon derivative of a car available as a hatchback (Vauxhall Vectra C) and 2. I park my car in my garage.

The 2 are closely related. Open a hatchback when your car is in the garage and listen to the clang as it hits the garage door.

My experience of the continent (Germany in particular where lots of saloons are made) is that most people park their cars in their garages rather than all the rubbish that is stored in the garage over here (mind you they tend to have cellars where they can store the rubbish).

saloon cars - whats the point..... - stunorthants26
I owned an Escort saloon ( M-reg ) because the boot was enormous, far bigger than the hatchback's, to such an extent that I used it for 6 months for my valeting business as all my kit would fit in it with the rear seats folded. So, thats the point.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Happy Blue!
I too find that saloons have far more useable space that hatches or estates. The boot on my Outback is large , but its mainly length and it is shallow. A saloon offers a superior shape, reduced noise transmission, and security. Also, they can be smarter than the equivalent hatch. I would prefer an Outback saloon but they don't make them.

Apart from the UK, most countries seem to prefer saloons to hatches in my experience.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Ruperts Trooper
I would prefer an Outback saloon but they don't make them.

Oh yes they do (or did) but only for the States and dropped for 2008. What about a Legacy saloon with Outback dampers and springs?
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Kuang
I was surprised to see a Fabia vRS saloon in metallic blue at work the other day.. not just because I didn't know they existed, but also because it looked fantastic. The scale and the spoiler made it look like a Bora sport but with more 'oomph' :)

Unfortunately I'd imagine, to quote Arthur Daley, 'they fall out of bed, price-wise'

Edited by Kuang on 05/02/2008 at 22:36

saloon cars - whats the point..... - kingslea
Quickly remove the rear shelf in my Mazda 6 hatchback, flatten the rear seats and it is so easy to load up with large builders bags etc. My previous saloon (Audi A4) had a decent boot but a large hatchback is much more convenient for awkward loads.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - MichaelR
I much prefer saloons having owned hatchbacks in the past.

They are more secure, they look better, they are quieter inside, and the bodyshell of the car is more rigid. They also look smarter and more professional.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - b308
a large hatchback


= Estate??!
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Bilboman
(Perceived) advantages of saloons:
1. Structural rigidity - hence improved handling and reduced noise levels
2. Enhanced luggage security
3. Rarity value = snob value = higher residuals. Boot instead of hatch puts car in same league as Saab, Jaguar, RR,... (with a large pinch of salt)
4. Often pushed as upmarket (early Orions)
5. Conversely, may be vastly underrated and good s/h bargains (Jetta GTi)
6. If they look good, they look very good (recent models of Megane, Focus, Astra www.zercustoms.com/photos/2007-Opel-Astra-Sedan.ht...l

Disadvantages:
1. Some pig ugly ones out there (Spain's Renault 7, early Novas and Astras, Fiat Uno, Eastern European Clios...)
2. Not so good for transporting wardrobes.
Er... that's it.

saloon cars - whats the point..... - grumpyscot
In recent years (the last 20) I've mostly had hatchbacks or estates. Had 2 Volvo saloons - 460 and S40 - both had drawbacks - especially the S40, as the boot opening was too narrow to get some suitcases in! Completely no good to carry a wheel chair without spending 10 mintes taking the chair entirely to bits.

I reverted back to estates - and the Saab 95 has been the best, since it has a solid, though hinged, parcel shelf. Keeps down the noise, you can fold it in two and still hide stuff in the boot, but leave the rearmost part open for the dog.

Personally, I'd always stick to hatchbacks or estates simply because of the versatility I need - but can see the attraction of saloon owners who don't have the same need to carry dogs, large articles, or..... rubbish to the recycling centre!

saloon cars - whats the point..... - Big Bad Dave
Saloon any day for me. I wouldn't buy an estate or hatchback for the one day a year I need to drive to the rubbish tip any more than AE would fit winter tyres for that one day of snow.

I like the solidity and security and I like my mess to be hidden from view.

My favourite cars are saloons, XJ, S8, Lexus LS.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - jc2
It varies a lot by country-in France a saloon is preferred and you see few estates but in the Uk & Germany there is a big demand for estates.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - cheddar
Missed this thread.

Just to say that the Focus saloon is a great looking car, they should do an ST version, a little more subtle than the current ST.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - oldnotbold
The point of saloons is to buy them later in their life, when they are much cheaper than the hatch version. Look at Jetta/Bora - worth pennies as it's the Golf that has the image.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Ed V
I'm wondering what valuables so many of you appear to have that need shutting away in a boot! Are you all antique dealers? And are your contents more appealing to said thief than the car itself?

And if you do have valuables that would attract thieves, why would you take them with you and then leave them in the car at your destination?

I have a school trunk that's to high for an ordinary boot; golf clubs fit easier into a hatch [even the C-class Coupe]. I agree the noise permeates, but only when I'm carrying such kit. Given the alternative is ........well I don't know what it is!

I guess I just feel happier knowing my transport can transport!
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Big Bad Dave
"I'm wondering what valuables so many of you appear to have that need shutting away in a boot!"

Doesn't have to be valuable to get stolen. Your average lowlife will take anything that isn't welded down. I have a toolkit and sometimes I might leave my coat in the car while I walk around Tescos. And it would be nice if what I buy in Tescos is still in the boot when I get home.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Round The Bend
There was a time when my golf clubs lived permanently in the boot.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Ben79
I like my C5 hatchback. It has the profile of a saloon and at all speeds above 20ish, rain doesn't hit the rear window. You can go as fast as you like in the heaviest rain and still the rear is clear.

Then it is a hatchback to put big things into, like baths.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - MichaelR
The only thing that ever gets put into the boot of my 530 is my rucksack full of Uni crap which also happens to contain my Dell D620 - so security is important. I much prefer to leave the Laptop in the car than anywhere else barring my home, as it's by far the most secure place for it.

Even if someone breaks into the car, they are absolutely not getting into the boot without a chainsaw or an angle grinder.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Blue {P}
Even if someone breaks into the car they are absolutely not getting into the boot
without a chainsaw or an angle grinder.

>>

You know I'm a huge fan of the E39 but even I'm not convinced that the boot is *that* secure! :-)

saloon cars - whats the point..... - Waino
I'm wondering what valuables so many of you appear to have that need shutting away

in a boot! Are you all antique dealers? And are your contents more appealing to said thief than the car itself?>>

My surveying work means that I normally have to leave the car and set off on-foot around the countryside. As this is usually fairly local, I am carrying anything valuable (gps, binoculars, camera etc) with me but the other stuff - mainly spare clothing - is left in the old Mondy estate in deliberately open view. I would not use the rear tonneau cover as I've had the car broken into before now. The tonneau attracts scrotes!

The problem comes when I work away from home and I need an over-night bag. I normally have to keep the bag in the car until I go to the hotel in the early evening - and for these jobs I have to borrow SWMBO's Focus hatch. [For security, a saloon would be better]
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Alby Back
Scrotes are badge snobs! ....No really, I have to leave large quantities of stuff in my car which I need on a daily basis for work. I should probably buy a van but choose to use an estate car for its versatility. Now, when I had BMW estates they were broken into regularly. A Golf GTi I had for a couple of years during my mid-life thingy was broken into four times and stolen once. However, my last three cars have been Mondeo estates. They get left in all sorts of dodgy inner city locations with loads of kit on view and have never been touched! Must be some kind of "designer label" thing going on amongst the criminal fraternity.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - EoinM
Here in the ROI saloons have traditionally been preferred to hatches. You can even get the new model corolla saloon which isnt available in the UK (not exactly a thing of beauty i might ass). There is even a 4 month waiting list on a corolla saloon!!!!! Madness! Hatches are on the increase over the last 10 years or so and now sales are probably split at least 50:50.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Sofa Spud
I think I'd always choose hatchbacks but I can see that some people might prefer saloons - so it's worthwhile manufacturers offering them. But they should be styled nicely.

The ORIGINAL Ford Focus, with its edgy shape and strange body detailing didn't work at all on the saloon version, and the rear looked like it had been shunted at low speed by a lorry! The new Focus is nicer in hatch and saloon forms.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Ruperts Trooper
As I found, saloons aren't always more secure than hatches - many saloons have a folding back seat which isn't locked so forcing a door or window still allows access to the boot.
saloon cars - whats the point..... - Tornadorot
Disadvantages:
1. Some pig ugly ones out there (Spain's Renault 7 early Novas and Astras Fiat
Uno Eastern European Clios...)
2. Not so good for transporting wardrobes.
Er... that's it.


3. If it's cold weather and your door locks freeze such that the doors won't open from outside, you can't crawl in through the tailgate and open the doors from the inside (yes, happened to me recently).

I don't know if it's because I'm a child of the 70s, when hatchbacks were all the rage, but I've always perceived saloons as somewhat staid and humdrum in comparison. Having said that there are some pretty ones around (eg. VW Bora, Mazda 3, SEAT Toledo II...)
saloon cars - whats the point..... - movilogo
We prefer houses to flats, hatchbacks over saloons, crave over new-ish number plate etc. etc.

UK market is different - that's all.

As others stated, in most other parts in the world, saloons are preferred over hatches.

The saloon looks smarter, rear windows doesn't need a wiper - but then I can unload my shopping trolley by opening the hatch, without getting drenched during the rain :)

saloon cars - whats the point..... - Round The Bend
"rear windows doesn't need a wiper"

Oh yes they do! My last 2 cars have been saloons and there have been many occasions when a rear wiper was needed. (See various previous threads on this.)
 

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