So, I thought I would throw this one out to you all.
I've just started a new job, and recently bought a new flat. The impact is that my journey to the office is now only a 5 mile round trip. Saying this, there is a lot of long distance driving needed to see customers. At the moment, I am predominantly getting the train - however my legs are getting tired of standing for an hour + every journey I make.
So, I want to get a new car, probably through a personal lease for 2 years as my company car scheme doesn't offer me significant enough benefit.
But enough of that.
What I am looking for is something that will be fine for the daily short journey I do, but also be comfortable enough for when I need to do the journeyts from Reading to Durham for example.
It seems every time I read about an Alpha (I like the look of the 157) it says this is a real drivers car. But there are always questions about reliablility.
What's the take of the masses? Do any of you own an alpha? How is it holding up? Any other cars you might recommend?
Ultimately, I want something that is comfortable and fun to drive. If it is economic as well - thats a huge bonus, but not the be all end all :)
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Do it. You only live once.
...get maintainance included in the lease.
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Which are you after, an Alfa 147 or a 159? Either are great cars. I run a 156 GTA and have done 60k miles in 3 years, with the only problems being a blocked aircon pipe and a worn anti roll bar bush. Terrific car.
Not really a question of being brave nowadays
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Hi Dizz,
1. It's spelt Alfa.
2. There is no 157 at present.
I have previously run a 145 for ten years from new. Most reliable car I have ever owned.
I now drive a 147 that I bought at 4 years old. No problems so far.
Buying any used car requires a set of checks - electrics, tidiness etc.
But with an Alfa also check clonking suspension and that the cambelt has demonstrably been done recently.
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Would be interested to see how many lease companies offer Alfas.
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Yeah, go for it - you'll look forward to those long journeys.
And every driver of a Mondeo, Vectra and, well, whatever companies dole out instead of valium these days, will wish they were you...
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I drive a Mondeo but would happily swap it for a 159!
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I have a Mondeo and a 147. Guess which I would rather drive!
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Don't be brave, be smart; buy a BMW, they're just as fun to drive but they're more reliable and don't depreciate as much.
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Don't be brave be smart; buy a BMW they're just as fun to drive but they're more reliable and don't depreciate as much.
Are they more reliable?
Do they not depreciate as much?
(I'm sure I've read that the 159 and Brera are the best depreciators in their classes)
And the BMW doesn't have a fraction of the style.
And you'd have to pay several grand more for a comparable BMW.
I'd certainly go for the Alfa
(Says a completely unbiased 156GTA driver :) )
Edited by BazzaBear {P} on 04/12/2007 at 15:31
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Dizz - your a whimp. You havent got the guts to go for an Alfa. Go buy a kia Ceed. Thats more you cup of tea,
(or prove me wrong big boy)
------
< Ulla>
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All the reliability surveys I have ever seen would suggest Alfas are well below average for reliability; this has been done to death on this forum, but I tend to side with the surveys rather than the anecdotal evidence of a few owners. Of course if its just reliability you want you wouldn't get a BMW either; you'd get Lexus, Toyota or Honda.
I'm also pretty sure that Alfas depreciate more than BMWs, but you might well be right about the Brera.
I'm inclined to agree with you that alfas are more stylish (but not THAT much more). In any case, he is after a good drivers car....
(completely unbiased BMW driver)
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The point is, does he want a BMW? Or does he want to demonstrate he has a mind of his own?
I had forgotten to add BMW to the short list I mentioned above...
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Everyone should own an Alfa once in their life - even one of the up-market Fiats hey are today.
(I'm still plucking up courage. :-))
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Go on have a go, get an Alfa. You will have a fab time meeting new people.
By new people I meen breakdown truck drivers and call centre staff at the AA/RAC.
I had one some years ago, never again, I got it out of my system though.
Maybe they are better now, but hey do you feel lucky?
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I'd have had a Brera if I could've fitted the kids in the back. Having trawled around a few dealers at the time, I can't dispute their dealer network is still lacking somewhat.
Edited by midlifecrisis on 04/12/2007 at 16:43
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I'm really amazed by Alfas!
In spite of so much bad press, people still want them. They must have a secret then ;)
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Yes they are sexy. It's like a really beautiful woman, they are a bit temperamental. If you go for a plainish one you will end up far more happy!
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This is only my humble opinion as one who bought one once.
Most drivers of Alfas amust be on a Care in the Community programme, as they are plainly mad.
Alfas these days are faux posh shoddily built Fiats, with all the rotten quality and poor dealer back up, but with more expensive parts prices. This is not true of the 159 of course, thats a faux posh Fiat with a Holden engine in the V6 version.
Also, the new ones (Brera, 159) are morbidly obese so dont go.
And no I dont drive a BMW!
There is nothing more boring that a badly built unreliable car.
Norbert
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Sounds like you have read press about the new ones, as they are as inaccurate as you are. If you compare weight to weight the new 159 with equivalents from audi and bmw you will find the weights to be very similar. No real comparative model to the Brera so cant really compare them with anything.
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What model did you have, Notorious Norbert, and what sort of state was it in when you got it? Alfas are often abused by second and third owners, and some models didn't stand up to it very well. All the faux posh stuff is just bile. One might call it faux tosh.
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All the reliability surveys I have ever seen would suggest Alfas are well below average for reliability; this has been done to death on this forum but I tend to side with the surveys rather than the anecdotal evidence of a few owners.
'Alfas' no doubt are less reliable than 'BMWs', but we're not talking about the marque as a whole, we're talking about the latest model from each. Alfa have reputedly improved massively on this, while BMW are said to have slipped slightly. Certainly I've heard of no reliability issues on the 159.
I'm also pretty sure that Alfas depreciate more than BMWs but you might well be right about the Brera.
But from your reply to the last point, I thought you were only interested in proven results, not anecdotal evidence? ;)
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Hi Dizz,
I am going through the same thoughts as you, I checked out the cost of a lease form a dealer but need to search around more for the best deal. Let me know how you get on
I once had a Lancia Beta Spyder, yes had it quirks and bits did fall off but to drive and look at, nothing could touch it, and if my one comes up for sale agian and is as I sold it then I will buy it back.
In saying that I have 2 young children and need somethiong that I know will not let me down so we have a Yaris and a Jazz !
Cheers
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You own an Alfa with your heart not your head......only you can decide......;-)
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Lud
Well yes it was an Alfa 33. Truly horrible, and maybe not in its first flush of youth, and it tried to kill me and family by bursting into flames.
Ok, am rumbled, I spent 15 years riding Italian motorcycles, and would love a Duetto Spider so am not immune to Italian charms.
But an Alfa saloon...hmmm, and the comical parts prices...
Norbert
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My father had an Alfasud which needed new wings 18 months from new under the rust warranty. Brother had a 33 whose engine blew up. He replaced it with a 75 which had constant electrical problems.
But fhese were years back and I'd happily have a 159 today. That having been said, as PG says, I'd go for the maintenance option in the lease.
Edited by Round The Bend on 04/12/2007 at 21:39
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If I had the cash and the patience if it did go wrong ( which Im sure is getting less and less these days ), id go for it - the 159 is ultra desirable in the way that a 3-Series can never be.
Think of the Alfa, Lexus and the BMW as women - The Lexus you would marry but avoid the bedroom if you could, the BMW you would marry and it would be ok in the bedroom but the Alfa you most likely wouldnt marry but you would wanna spend all day in bed with at any given opportunity.
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I have been driving for almost 35 years and this is one make I have never owned. And I used to change my cars every 6 months (or less) when I was younger.
You should be brave enough and buy one....obviously researching it properly.
Earlier this year I bought a 12 year old Defender...against lots of advice...I had always hankered after one as day to day transport where I live in the Dales, and when the right one presented itself I bought it. Apart from it not being very comfortable on motorways...early am runs up the M6 to Penrith to join friends for a days walking in the Lakes were not very relaxing, it was brilliant and I only sold it because I needed the money to fund building work.
This taught me a lesson. Have no regrets. What is the worst that can happen?
At some point I must get that nice looking Alfa coupe...as and when funds permit.
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I've got a mate who bought a 156 1.8 Veloce nearly-new (i.e 6 months old) in 2002. mad I thought, totally cretinous.
But, other than the gormless terry not looking at his temp gauge whilst tooling it along the M6 once and if he had, he'd have noticed on this particular occasion that it was in the red, the car hasn't been too bad and it's now passed 90k.
Of course, the aircon ceased working about 2 or 3 years ago, there's been a few niggly issues that needed looking at (suspension bushes, that sort of thing, £200 or £300 every so often) plus the usual servicing but, overall, it has been 'ok'.
depreciation must be about £2k/year, and the cost of the big fry-up that occurred on the M6 (he only realised when the car failed to go) was about a grand at a local garage but since then he's put another 30k on and it's been ok.
the car must be worth almost nothing now though, there's baby vom on the back seat and given the choice of him driving at lunchtime we'd rather walk, but the car has been ok. It could have been a lot worse.
So does that mean overall I am comparing the build quality of an Alfa to that of an Allegro, i.e. if you got a good one you were alright. It was just a matter of finding that good one.....
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If you want fun and reliability why not look at an MX5. I believe they are also fairly good for depreciation. The only problem would be that it is a 2 seater but you can't have everything.
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So why can Italy produce, I believe, great motorbikes like Ducatti but not great cars? That presumes they're brilliant at engines but not bodies?
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So why can Italy produce I believe great motorbikes like Ducatti
Ducatis are hardly known for reliability. I've read magazine tests where the test Ducati has broken down during the test, started itself when parked up, had frame welds fail, had non- functioning instruments, cambelt idlers seize up and cause the belt to squeal and smoke, . Yes, great bikes to ride, but need a bit of commitment to own. Just like a lot of Italian cars.
I know a few people who ride Dukes. All give trouble between services, but all owners love them. They're very different to Japanese bikes though, as an Alfa is a very different ownership proposition (and drive) to a Honda. If you love one, you'll probably hate the other.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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> as an Alfa is a very different ownership proposition (and drive) to a Honda. If you love one, you'll probably hate the other.<
I've had both and love them both, in different ways.
The Alfa played me up from time to time but was never less than a hoot to drive and I'm glad I had the nerve to own it. Regular readers here will know I've been havering for years over buying a Sportwagon - if only they didn't keep spoiling its looks with every update!
And if ever I saw my lovely Lancia HPE in the street again I wouldn't bother buying it back - I'd steal it on the spot...
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One of my neighbours has a 159 Estate. It looks so much more stylish than the 3 and 5 Series and various Mercs with which it largely shares the underground car park. As driving machines Alfas do not, in my opinion, reach the high level of BMWs but are a good second best. My experience during a 3 day rental of the drop dead gorgeous Brera also led me to wonder whether some of the ergonomic "features" might not become rather trying on a day to day basis once the novelty of ownership wears off.
Assuming the novelty wears off, of course!
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> Yes they are sexy. It's like a really beautiful woman, they are a bit temperamental. If you go for a plainish one you will end up far more happy<
I wondered on reading this thread if Swiss Tony has joined the backroom...
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My mate got a new 145 Cloverleaf in about 1997. He sold it 4 years later when he moved to the middle of nowhere, and started doing lots of miles. 6 years on he still laments getting rid of it. I never got a drive but it was a hoot to be a passenger in!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Do it...you'll look forward to every drive.
Just be prepared for the main dealers to do their utmost wreck a beautiful car.
After every service you will have to check the work they have supposedly done.
I'm speaking from experience here.
I needed a new set of brake discs two days after a major service when the service sheet said front pads were 50% worn. It was the metal on metal sound and lack of stopping power when coming off the motorway up the slip road that gave it away. They replaced discs and pads free of charge as apparently there had been an oversight on the brake inspection.
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Since I got mine I have had people actually comment on how nice it is.
And Re Reliability Surveys - Do you really think BMW drivers would admit problems with their Beemers ?!
On the positive side 2nd hand values are excellent so if your in the market to buy one your gonna get a lot of car for your money.
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Well I took the plunge for an Alfa 159 very recently and am so pleased with it. I had an Astra which I sold quite easily and got the Alfa for a very good price. It's a 56 plate 2.4 JDTm Lusso in black with tan leather and looks the part. I paid 11.7k for it although it has 30k on it. The paintwork needs a little work (stone chips) and the tyres aren't going to last forever but other than that it's the best car I've ever driven. Far superior to a BMW E46 which at the price I paid is the nearest comparison and X series excepted I love BMs.
The engine sounds great although the economy doesn't seem too good (about 30mpg) although the performance is great, it looks fantastic and so far the quality seems good. Alfa finished above Vauxhall in the 2006 TG survey.....
Only thing I'd say is find where your local dealer is (mine is 35 miles away) and watcxh the servicing costs - the next service on mine is set to cost £430, and the 72k service has been quoted at in excess of 1k.... (includes cambelt change).
So basically although I was sure whether to buy it at first, I would go for at as I'm so pleased with mine!
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Having been persuaded by a colleague to try an Alfa Romeo I bought a second hand 156 JTDM and loved it. When the 159 came out I was totally smitten by its looks and, encouraged by excellent reports from Messrs Clarkson and the Daily Telegraphs Honest John bought a 1.9JTDM Lusso in metallic black with beige leather trim. Perhaps sadly but being an Alfa it?s had some faults, most noticeably a vibration in 3rd gear and a humming noise from the dash. But both these problems were fixed by the dealer, Bishops in Guildford, who seem just as good as any Audi / Mercedes dealer I?ve dealt with in the past. The car itself is really well equipped and even today I?m still discovering nice touches and thoughtful features.
The car is fantastic to drive, not the most powerful for sure, but as a package I think unbeatable for the price and those looks! Though not new any more it never fails to surprise me how many people will come over and say what a great looking car it is (shame about the ugly driver as my mates say!) and how they wish they could have an Alfa.
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I might be going insane (albeit fleetingly) - only a few days ago I toyed with the idea of a 166 3.0 V6 24v Veloce or Cloverleaf - must've been something in the water that day!
No but seriously, I've been looking at these on and off for a few years now but have never managed to pluck up the courage to take the plunge (and the risk, if some reports are to be believed).
Maybe one day........
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Oh the joys of Alfa ownership. I owned a 33 many years ago, it was utter rubbish, absolute garbage. The floors rusted out, the suspension was awful, and it smoked like Bet Lynch at a smokers convention. I hated it. Horrible car.
Many things have changed in the last 20 years though. A friend of mine (an absolute Alfa nut), resolutely stuck with them through thick and thin, and eventually when the wounds from the 33 healed I caved in and bought a GTV 2.0 TS. While I would not say that this car has been ultra reliable (broken cam belt last year £1200 later!), my goodness what a car, stunning, superb engine, sounds like nothing else. Every time I drive it I smile from ear to ear, no other car makes me feel like that and I have owned lots.
Actually it is so good that I was putting so many miles on it I decided to get something for running around in and take the load off the GTV. So now I have an Alfa 145 1.8 TS as well. That car makes me smile just as much as well, even though just this week it has lost all compression on number 1 cylinder due to a burnt out exhaust valve. So I reckon in typical Alfa style it will cost a small fortune to fix.
Don't care though.
Logic dictates that better, more reliable cars are out there, if that floats your boat go get one.
Otherwise try an Alfa. Its got soul. Anyone who's had one will understand what I mean.
Edited by Webmaster on 30/01/2008 at 23:20
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In my book, any car with a standard service costing over £500 is a car to avoid.
Any car designed and built in Italy is to be avoided.
(I refuse to sell anything on ebay to Italy cos of the volume of fraud.)
Still the Italian economy needs all the support it can get.:-)
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I've had five Alfas over nineteen years.Two new..75TS and 164TS, and three second hand, 164 TS, 164 3.0 24valve..and currently a 156 2.4JTD Sportwagon. All have been good family cars..The JTD is currently doing nearly 1000 miles a week..at about 45 + MPG and has not missed a beat since we bought it a year ago.
Whilst not perfect they have all given excellent service, and not fallen to bits (a few warranty niggles aside) or broken down..or rusted...with one exception where a diff failed at 140,000 miles on the V6.
Buy the best one you can, get a warranty if poss (just in case) maintain it properly by using an Alfa specialist to avoid main dealer prices, and join a good Alfa forum.
I find most other cars just so boring, even though on the build quality front Alfas cannot touch the far eastern cars. Alfas are truly great cars once you know them. I look at BMWs and yawn generally. 159 quality is generally excellent
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Hi All,
I hope the chap who started this thread has finally got around to buying an alfa......'cos I have!!......and what a brilliant car it is!!
I have owned a 52' plate mini cooper, big bottomed renault megane, Mazda 3 2.0 sport, Mazda RX-8 and a VW bora TDI. The Alfa is the best by a country mile!
I have an 04 plate Alfa 147 2.0TS Lusso. The build quality is excellent, the leather seats are much nicer than my partners new shape Astra, and the engine is an absolute belter! It is smooth a quiet at tick over and when you floor it, it preduces the nicest growl i have ever heard from a 4-pot.
Finally, i can get 400miles out £50 fuel, which is good considering fuel is £1.10 a litre (robbing sh#ts!). One point i would i like to add though, my commute to work consists of pottering along in fifth, doing about 50-60 - perfect for economy!
A very happy Alfa owner! (until it bkeaks down of course :P )
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i've had my Alfa GTV 3.0litre since new in 1999 and it still drives like new and the engine is fantastic. only got 40k on the clock though. no breakdowns in all that time but i think it will have to go soon as it may need money spending on it soon.
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I posted this very same message some three years ago when I was getting rid of that hideous piece of German poo (Golf mk4) I used to own. This was because me and the wife had fallen in love with an Alfa GT Coupe we'd seen parked outside our hotel in Italy. Stunning car. In the end I bottled it and bought a Saab 93. We've since bought a 93 convertible and although the 93 seems to be the current favourite on this forum for being bashed we've ben very happy with both. Why did I buy a Saab? Because I didn't want to be a sheep and buy something German.
Anyway, yesterday in the Telegraph I came across a full page advert for the Alfa Spyder and I think I've fallen in love again. It pressed all the buttons the GT did the first time I saw it. Utterly, utterly gorgeous. So this time I think I'm seriously going to look into it on the grounds that "life's too short to worry about the odd reliability issue". It's better than being a BMW sheep and I bet I get let out oif side streets too in the Alfa!!!
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One top akr to help with your dislike of Germanic motoring:
Spyder is a German term. An Alfa will always be spelled 'Spider'.
Go for it: The Brera Spider is a fabulous looking car.
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