Please may I ask for some advice...
I have noticed that the inside of the FRONT PASSENGER side tyre has started to wear, unevenly when compared to the rest of the tyre which still has 80-85% tread across the tyre with about 3.5 mil in tread depth. (all other tyres wearing evenly)
I am aware this is clearly a tracking issue and I will be having the car fully checked out to ensure the TOE - CASTER - CAMBER are all correct / corrected.
My Question is:
Do I pay to have the tracking done whilst the old tyres are still on the car, or do I have the new ones fitted (I will be replacing ALL 4 road tyres) then drive to the specialist garage to have the tracking done properly.
I tend not to trust these small tyre fitting garages as they dont carry out the same sort of checks when the do "4 wheel alighnment" whereas I intend to have it done in a garage that speciales in 4 wheel geometry which includes toe, camber and caster and restores to its manufactuer settings.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/11/2007 at 10:34
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Assuming your car is a B5.5 Passat (Year in header would help), the setting of the multilink front suspension on these cars is not straightforward.
It's essential that a careful check of the control arm bushes and ball joints is made together with the track rod inner and outer joints. This lot is prone to wear, which could be a part of your original problem. There are 8 control arms on this car, each with a balljoint and inner bushing.
Only when all joints have been checked should any adjustments be made. This car is not straighforward to adjust - camber is set by moving the front subframe and there are two adjustments per side for toe.
Ask your preferred garage if they have the tool for setting "raised toe" on this car. If not.....
If you are changing tyres anyway, have the adjustments made with new tyres correctly inflated and with the specified load inside the car.
Most B5.5 Passats I've seen have been set wrongly after adjustment. Dealer = worst, specialised tyre supplier such as Micheldever = best.
659.
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Sorry, my passat is (not the newest shape) the previous shape and is a 2005 car 05 reg
Thanks. {added to header}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/11/2007 at 10:32
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Thanks. '05 Passat (old shape) is a B5.5, hence comments above are valid.
The suspension design on these cars is so gruesome that they didn't repeat it on the next model.
659.
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>>My Question is:
Do I pay to have the tracking done whilst the old tyres are still on the car, or do I have the new ones fitted (I will be replacing ALL 4 road tyres) then drive to the specialist garage to have the tracking done properly.
It doesn't really matter, because the measurements are usually made from the rims, not the tyres. It's more important to make sure the tyres are properly inflated, and the vehicle is loaded correctly, as per 659's post.
My preference would be to get the suspension and stering geometry right, and then fit the new tyres. Fitting the new tyres can't change the geometry.
Number_Cruncher
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Thank you for the replies....
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It probably doesn't make a huge difference as the wheel rims are used as a reference. I'd be a little concerned at any differences in rolling radius affecting the raised toe setting on this vehicle, hence my suggestion of fitting the new tyres first.
After all, new vehicles are set up with new tyres.
659.
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>>I'd be a little concerned at any differences in rolling radius affecting the raised toe setting on this vehicle
A small, second order effect surely! If the toe change on bump was severe enough to cause significant error, then tyres wouldn't last 2 minutes on these cars. I would suggest that in practice, most cases sloppiness by the fitters and pre-load not being removed from the suspension bushes would have a larger effect.
>>After all, new vehicles are set up with new tyres.
Yes, that's true - they could hardly be otherwise! However, the OP needs to drive between his tyre fitting garage and his alignment garage. If both garages were co-located, I would agree with the suggestion of fitting the new tyres first.
Number_Cruncher
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I had a similar problem on my Passat B5.5. Cost over £125 to check (at the main dealer) and I was told to fit new tyres first. 24 hours later got several pages of print out but was never very sure if the problem was sorted. Some brands of tyre wear more evenly than others in my experience after putting 105,000 on the clock.
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Slightly off topic but back in the old days some manuals used to say to bring the car to a gentle halt using the handbrake or push the car back and forth by hand to 'settle' the suspension before doing the tracking. I assume the theory is the use of the front brakes will slightly load or deform the suspension and thus make the measurement inaccurate. I've never seen a tyre place do this. Is there any validity in the idea?
Edited by nick on 08/11/2007 at 17:00
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This vehicle is unusual in that the toe adjustment is made in two ways on each side. The "level toe" is set with threaded track rod ends as are most other vehicles.
The B5.5 is unusual (the most polite term I can find for its front suspension design) in that the toe changes significantly with suspension deflection - no doubt the inner pivot axes (there are 4 each side) do not lie in the same plane as the centred inner balljoint location.
As undaunted German engineers, these people have contrived to make the axial position of the outer trackrod balljoint pin adjustable. This means that the toe can be set in both the neutral and deflected positions of the suspension. There is, of course, a special tool...
In practice, in the UK few people know how to adjust it or even that it is adjustable - the adjuster just looks as though it retains the ball pin vertically, although it's clamped by the (usually seized) pinch bolt.
659.
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>>in that the toe changes significantly with suspension deflection - no doubt the inner pivot axes (there are 4 each side) do not lie in the same plane as the centred inner balljoint location.
Sorry 659 - In this case then, I agree, new tyres first! I didn't realise the suspension was so "unusual". How do these cars react to bumps on just one side of the road?
In reply to the point made above, yes, you can get significant changes by how you stop the car. I once spent (wasted!) a good part of a Saturday afternoon playing about with checking the tracking on a Carlton using different methods, and techniques. I found quite a lot of variation, depending upon what weight was in the car, if the car had wound its suspension up by cornering just before being measured, etc, etc. IMO, wheel alignment is difficult to get right, and different people can easily measure the same car and tell you a completely different story.
Number_Cruncher
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