Vauxhall - Early '70s Victor - were they any good? | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Mon 5 Nov 2007 11:20

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Group B

Does anyone here have any experience of the late '60s/ '70s Victor, did anyone own one or drive one? Were they popular in the day, how did they compare with the Granada, etc.?
Ford and BL cars of that era regularly get mentioned on forums and in magazines, as do some of the smaller VX cars, but the big ones seem to very rarely get a mention. Or is it just because I've only just started looking, so not noticed them before. Also I've not got my head round the model designations, were the Victor, Ventora and VX4/90 just different trim levels of the same car?

I've suddenly become aware of these because a friend of my brother has bought one (he's 30) to run as a family car, a 2 litre VX4/90. Having looked at pics on the internet I think an early '70s FD model looks pretty cool..
But there does not seem to be much information around about them. Is this because they have all just rusted away and are largely forgotten, or were they a bit rubbish?

Ta,

Rich.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 11:34

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - normd2

I've had both a Mk 1 Granada and a 70's VX 2300 (the VX 4/90s baby brother) both great to drive although I recall the VX had more wood inside. I think the Granny was faster (although not by much) but both were very comfy cruisers - I'd have either again tomorrow. The VX was the only auto I manged to wheel-spin from a standing start btw - if you were brutal enough you could leave long black stripes from a junction.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 11:58

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Collos25

I had a 65 vx4/90 reg60cub really nice car suffered with rust,like all cars from that era also had a 71 victor 1800 with the cam belt on show for all to trap their hands in I thought this was a magnificent motor put new front wings on it as the originals only lasted a couple of years,a friend had a 101 victor the rust was everywhere in under a year which I supose was an improvement from the first victors,velox crestas of the 60's some had terminal rust within 3 months.I aso had for a short time (it only lasted a short time before it imploded)a cresta with the three back windows the inner wings were that rusty the steering box was almost floating in mid air, the boot floor had gone and you could see the rear wheels plus a piece of rope tied round the two rear doors to keep them shut happy days.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 12:12

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Garethj

You could do worse than pop over to the forum at retro-rides and ask there? A few people there have run these Vauxhalls recently

retrorides.proboards86.com/index.cgi?board=general

Gareth

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 12:50

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Group B

You could do worse than pop over to the forum at retro-rides and ask there?

A few people there have run these Vauxhalls recently

Cheers for the link Gareth, not seen that site before, theres some cool stuff on there. I will spend a long time browsing round that forum..

;o)

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 12:14

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Screwloose

Rich

You got it right - they were rubbish. The FD Victor [never did find out who it beat...] originally came in 1.6 and 2.0 ltr OHC guises. [With no cam-belt cover at all on the early ones. Yes; really....]

It was a cobbled-together mess [the leaky "slant-4" engine was the cut-down remains of a stillborn V8] and up against the Cortina it had little chance. [The much nicer FE had a 1.8 and, quite grunty, 2.3 unit. Still leaked...]

The VX4/90 was the "sporty" one; twin Strombergs - fake wood and leather. [But with a LSD in the live axle IIRC.]

The Ventora shared a shell but was GM's [disastrous] attempt at the Granada market. They sold so badly that you could get 70% off the sticker price after they'd taken root in the showroom for two years.

The wheezy 3.3ltr six-pot single carb Bedford truck engine was positively prehistoric; but sufficed for the amble to the golf club that most were used for.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 12:21

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - bignick2

My first car was a 1967 Victor 101 DeLuxe (it had a heater)

Big and very comfortable but suffered from terrible rust problems in rear wheel arches and sills. 3 speed column change worked well although the linkages became sloppy. Enormous under bonnet space with tiny 1.6 pushrod engine hiding in a corner. I would think the larger engined Ventora etc would have been better performance wise.
Huge front seats which met in the centre to form a bench seat (very important to a 17yo).

If I had known then what I know now I would probably still have it, seen occasional restorations in magazines and it is still a handsome motor.

My brother had its little brother a Viva SL90 which was for the time a bit of a Q car with uprated carb etc.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 12:34

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Collos25

tinyurl.com/yq6w62 {shortened link to ebay}

Just ready to do up.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/11/2007 at 12:52

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 12:57

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - NARU

My first car was a 1969 Victor FD (the coke bottle shape) with a bench front seat and a four speed gearbox. Only 1.6 unfortunately but it seemed to cope pretty well.

Indeed, the whole car went pretty well, but needed ongoing maintenance with a welder for the last few years. The timing belt snapped during my ownership, but no damage - the only problem was that the cam and distributor timing marks were out, so I ended up setting the timing by first principles and by ear - all in all a pretty good car for cutting my mechanical teeth on.

I later had a number of Victor FEs - both 1.8 and 2.3 - they're basically the same engine, just bored out a little. They seemed huge cars at the time!

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 13:12

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Group B

So basically if you can find one that hasn't rotted away, thoroughly rustproof it, then drop a better engine in it, it should make a decent motor?!

I read somewhere that a Vauxhall XE 16v coupled to a Carlton 5 speed 'box was quite an easy fit. What about a 3.0 Senator straight six. Hmm. (Sorry just a bit of fantasy).

I dont think many people of my generation appreciate just how quickly rust used to wreck cars! I used to drive 2 rusty Metros a long time ago, and had an '84 Audi 80 that needed welding at every MoT. But on the Metros it was cosmetic and on the Audi it was manageable, none of this 'needing new panels after only a few years!'

:o)

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 13:20

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - bell boy

i wouldnt wan to run one as a family car but they were a good looking car of the era,i always wanted a vx490 transcontinental with the double grille

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 13:33

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - oilrag

We had a victor 101 in the 60`s. Experience of rust with this car has marked me even to this day in putting galvanising as the first priority in car choice.

Before the Victor, we had a Morris traveller which was far superior in terms of not perforating over 5 years.
Hard to believe any victors have survived this long, unless perhaps in a dry desert type environment... But even then, there is often a light dew or hint of moisture at night.

Enjoyed borrowing it from the Old Man though, as a 17yr old.

Edited by oilrag on 05/11/2007 at 13:34

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 13:30

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Clk Sec

A colleague of mine had a Victor in the late 60?s, but due to rust it was scrapped after just three years. However, I regularly see one locally which is very well preserved.

Clk Sec

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 14:00

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - 1066

there's a 70,s vauxhall estate for sale locally. i think it said victor on the back but will have a proper look in the morning and see what it is. looks in clean condition from a drive by

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 17:23

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - gordonbennet

Rich, i had a 69 ventora and i loved that car, and can't believe anyone could slate that lovely cresta engine (bedford truck really). 3.3 litres, very easy to work on, as is the whole car.

Find the manual with overdrive, engage overdrive top at 10 mph and power through non stop to a lot above the limit without a hiccup. Wheezy!!! never i say.

But do please have good tyres on it, remember its RWD, and with a mighty engine at front and will spin out very quickly. Mine had michelin zx's on it at first and it was almost 4 wheel steering in the wet. Changed them to goodyear unisteels (memory must be having a shuffle up cant remember what i did five minutes ago) and transformed the car completely.

Screwloose i may never recover from the slating of my lovely old car.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 17:36

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

By todays standards no. Very few probably got beyond their first MOT IIRC.
Rust caused their demise. And they were the first mass produced engines to have the dreaded rubber cam belts which so entertain us today.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 18:31

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Lud

I think they were better than their predecessors.

A fellow minicabber, a louche country boy, had a metallic green one of which he was immensely proud. Part of its registration number was the word HOT, which tickled him no end.

At the bottom end of Chelsea Bridge Road there is a roundabout, then a traffic light, then a tightish but smooth S-bend under a railway bridge. I loved that bend. As the lights changed one day and I took off towards it, this Victor came past like a bat out of hell and went a bit faster than was wise into the bends. A huge cloud of steam then enveloped the car as one of the main radiator hoses burst.

Later its owner wrote it off (and another car, both drivers landing in hospital) doing about 70 down Lavender Hill, what might be described as inappropriate speed certainly during daylight hours. He was never seen again at the minicab firm many of whose old stagers muttered about the unlucky nature of green motors.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 20:04

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Screwloose

gb

Sorry if I've sullied the memory of a lost friend; but I do know of which I speak.

My first-ever engine swap was one of those same 3.3 engines nailed into my first car - a '64 FB Victor. [Bit of a tight squeeze IIRC; but the four-on-the-floor gearbox was a revelation.] Shod with 195/70 G800 Rally Specials it even went round corners....

Having also been cursed with having to [try to] keep some old long-nose TJ Bedfords running; I recognized their engines at once. There was even a big brother to the 3.3; it came in something like 4.2 and 5.7 litre versions - still all fed though a Viva's single-choke Solex carb.

I would agree that they were superbly flexible though - not unlike a modern diesel in some ways.

Edited by Screwloose on 05/11/2007 at 20:05

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 21:10

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - gordonbennet

Screwloose

I may forgive you sometime, the last sentence though grudgingly given has gone someway to restoring my sagging chin..all 4 of em.

I'm drooling at the thought of opportunity missed, if i'd only known about the bigger brothers to that sweet engine.

I'm peering through rosy glasses at the picture of a 5.7 straight six in that for me elegant shape, the torque on tap there.

Its all memories now, but i'm glad to have experienced the car as it was.

I think thats what i miss about the older stuff, so long as you were a bit handy with some spanners and didn't mind the dirt and cold you could play around swapping engines and boxes etc without worring too much about the wiring.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 21:30

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - JH

When I was at school one of my mates Dad got a new 101. It had rusted through within the year. Anything that has survived must had buckets of tlc and that stuff you used to spray in the body.

JH

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 21:38

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Marc

When I was a youngster a guy in our neighbourhood had two "FE" series Victors. The first one was badged Victor and the second VX490 IIRC. They were both in a fetching shade of cream/magnolia. Both well looked after.

I seem to recall the Victor having a more luxurious spec. I'm surprised they weren't more popular as they certainly looked stylish next to a MkIII Cortina. Much nicer than the common HC Viva which were 10 a penny.

I personally liked the previous FD series.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 22:29

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - gordonbennet

Grief, i've just remembered when the new shape FE victors came out i think in 1972/3 vauxhall advertised them as the TRANSCONTINENTAL.

Were vaux's marketing people a few years in front, but thinking about it, BL/leyland/austinmorris/rover depending on whether there was a Y in the day had some howlers as well, think of the advert for the Ital strewth, didn't mind the advert for fishnet stockinged young lady's featuring the allagro though.

Cold shower.

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Mon 5 Nov 2007 22:51

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Pugugly {P}

My dad had a Vauxhall Victor FE 1800 when we lived in North Wales. It was in a powder blue colour and had a front bench seat but bizzarly a floor mounted gearshift and an umbrella handbrake. It seemed a very solid car - YUN 350 L (Bought new from Slaters Abergele - I think). I remember it had a collar on the gear shift to select reverse, a feature of modern day
Vauxhalls I believe.

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 06:58

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Victorbox

Have a good read of the club pages www.vx490driversclub.co.uk/index.html

Still plenty of them looking fantastic at the Vauxhall Rally each year at Billing Aquadrome in July.

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 07:18

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Clk Sec

Further to my post above. I remember a chap at school in the late 50?s who?s father had a Victor. It really stood out as an ultra-modern looking car at the time.

Clk Sec

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 07:35

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Collos25

"It really stood out as an ultra-modern looking car at the time."

Not for long though I'll bet they had rust worms before they left the showroom.

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 08:31

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Clk Sec

Not for long though I'll bet they had rust worms before they left the showroom.

I expect they did, although my 1972 Chrysler 180 was not much better.

I occasionally spot the odd Victor - don?t recall seeing a 180 or 2.0
for yonks, though.

Clk Sec

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 08:33

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Bilboman

Final word on the Victor. Here's one that DOES get to that sharp left hand bend before rusting to pieces. 0 to 60 in ONE second:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtxfbxGz1u4

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 08:41

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - barney100

I had a victor in the early 70's and i quite liked it. It was comfy and had decent performance though not startling. It was quite thirsty if you put your foot down and the body was prone to rust, especially the wings. i saw one the other week-a previous model to mine- and someone had restored it to immaculate, i was getting quite nostalhic for the days when I had hair and teeth.

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 11:42

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Group B

Final word on the Victor. 0 to 60 in ONE second:

Ah yes good old Red Victor 2, I've seen that before when looking at drag racing sites.
:-o
That 5th Gear clip looks good but I can't watch it with sound at the moment.
________________________

Having read a few threads on Retro Rides, some chap sold his due to frustration at being unable to get parts for them and high prices for parts that are available. I think the yellow one here looks gorgeous though:

snipurl.com/1t7tv (not the colour but the overall look of it).

I also found some pics of a good looking dark blue one on Sunday, but can't find them again now..

Rich.

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 11:47

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - fredmarkone

We had these down in the Antipodes (NZ) and they weren't as bad as some posters suggest. Lack of salt but loads of rain and high humidity meant we got rust but not as early as severe and, if you dealt to it and rustproofed the body you could keep a 60s/70s Victor on the road for years - my ex had a mint '67 101 back in '82 with 325,000 miles on it. Ran sweet as a nut on the factory engine that had had just rings 'n' bearings at 160k. I suspect the local assembly from CKD kits used a better body primer and pre-coats though top coat was sometimes prone to early fade in our strong sun.

Early 70s = FD 'coke bottle' looks and, by then, the 1.6 and two-litre slant fours launched in '68 were well sorted and drove well. With plastic cover over the camshaft pulley since '69 - if missing on later ones some turkey has left it off. The CD Stomberg carbs are pink fluffy dice to tune (ensure oil in the damper) and, if you're ever taking off an inlet manifold, one rusty bolt is inside the thermostat housing...

Remember also that the Bedford CF vans used the same engines = spares source.

Also don't knock the old 'Bedford' straight six used in the PC Cresta and Ventora. It's actually Chev-based, low-stressed, pulls like a schoolboy from 10mph in 3rd (often that's top) gear, easy to tune and repair and will run forever if you look after it.

Once sorted (by 1970), the FD Victor was in truth no worse than its awful British rivals - Hillman Hunter, MKIII Cortina and Morris Marina. They were all shoddily built, with vinyl-coated cardboard for interior trim and crap electrics, but usually easily fixed, unlike the electronic nightmares of today. And they rusted less than their otherwise superior initial quality Jap rivals, believe it or not.

The biggest problem with old Vauxhalls is spares - not the motors so much, but any body/interior bits or glass. UK Vauxhall owners' groups have even trawled the Antipodean wreckers yards in Australia, New Zealand and Africa for parts for years so the well really is sucked dry by now.

That said, the old Vauxhalls have their fans and a well-preserved one will always draw an appreciative audience. There's a surprisingly strong following for old Vauxhalls in Canada and Scandanavia, too - have a trawl on the web.

Can't comment on the 1972-on 'Transcontinental' FEs - these did not have a strong following in UK and didn't make it down under at all (we got the tougher Holden Torana instead). They would, I guess, be a nightmare for parts as there were so many variants in a relatively short time, and sales were not high.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/03/2008 at 19:22

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 13:09

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - mrmender

I had a FE Ventura an ex police car i seem to remember was't a bad motor at all plenty of low down grunt. It sounded good too. Is'nt this engine related to the lump in the Bedford green godesses?
Don't know if was a rival to the Granada as screwloose suggests more likely a rival to the rover p6 3.5 v8

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 21:55

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Marc

Dug out a copy of a 1973 ad for the (FE) Victor today. Here are some highlights :

Transcontinental Victor - it's a joy to drive!

A comprehensive pakage of 6 extras included in the basic price (from £1255) :

Heated rear window
Fitted front seat belts
Power assisted front discs
Wall to wall carpet
Alternator
Complete factory applied underbody seal

Choice of deluxe 1800 OHC, SL 2300 OHC and 3.3 litre estate

-11 stage anti corrosion treament
-Radial tyres standard on 2300 and 3.3
-Contoured individual front seats
-GM Euroservice 365 to simplify regular maintenance

Wonder if GM Euroservice 365 was a foreunner to Ecoflex that Vauxhall use today? Also seems as though Vauxhall did acknowledge rust issues but did the features above make any difference? Seemingly not from the tinworm references in this thread!

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Tue 6 Nov 2007 22:29

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - AlastairW

My teacher at primary school had a green FE Victor estate that he regularly toured Europe in (visiting places he had previoulsy dropped bombs on as he put it). He was ever so prod of it, but eventaully traded it in for a Volvo 245.

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Wed 7 Nov 2007 07:08

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Clk Sec

<>> Complete factory applied underbody seal

Didn?t do much good, though.

Clk Sec

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Wed 7 Nov 2007 07:26

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - oilrag

It was hanging off on ours, like a sagging blanket. You could have lodged a cricket ball behind it, let alone moisture.

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Wed 7 Nov 2007 07:43

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Clk Sec

I once paid to have a new car undersealed. What a waste of money that turned out to be.

Clk Sec

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Wed 7 Nov 2007 09:37

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - swaggy

I had a FD in the mid seventies, bench front seat, think it was a 2 litre, seved me well over considerable milage, mostly 100 miles plus 3 days a week. I still have an Autobooks manual for it!

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Sun 18 Nov 2007 14:09

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - MartinD

Yes, they are good cars, but I probably wouldn't use then today as an everyday car, due to cost of fuel and durability. (I do commute a long way though). I used them as daily drivers (along with Manta A) until about 4 years ago, and I still have a couple as weekend transport.

Models:

Victor 1600 - Basically trimmed, usually bench seat and 4 on the floor. Seemed pretty good for a sixties car, was pretty lively and could cruuise at 70MPH, but it had recurring running faults, like misfiring, flat spots and lumpiness esp. when cold. (I've had 4 of these)

Victor 2000/2000SL - Probably the one to get, comfotable separate seats (until they collapse), fake wood trim on dash, carpets, and thick door trims (which can split on the later cars). SL has a better carb set up, I had a 2000SL I used to do a 50 mile daily commute in , always started, and rarely had running problems. SL a bit thirsty, though (23-25 MPG). Early 2000s (67-69) had better quality interiors, but had the misfiring problem when cold like the 1600. Four cylinder cars have nice predictable handling and are pretty well balanced.

Ventora / 3300 Estate. Really shift when running properly, best thing is top gear acceleration, which is better than a lot of modern cars. Bad points are the fact there is a knack to getting them running properly, poor fuel consumption on Ventora I (Ventora II higher geared and better), and the fact that they are a lot heavier to drive (steering, clutch etc.) I've still got a 3300 estate, and it is quite fun to drive.

(Hence I disagree with anyone who says they are crap and have poor engines - they do leak oil though)

BOdywork wise, I don't think they're any worse than any other British car of the time, the really bad ones that appear now, are due to the fact of sheer age and poor storage, meaning some can literally rot eveywhere, from front wings to under the vinyl roof. The ones that aren't total wrecks generally go in certain areas (and this would have been true in the '70s-'80s) and these areas are pretty visible. Outer front wings (top, front), Inner front wings, rear wheel arches, front part of chassis rail (near gearbox mount), back corner of front doors, and the floors can rot if water gets in. Thsi is caused by them having bonded screens, nearly all of which leaked, so wet carpets and crispy floors can be a problem, if the screen isn't bonded properly. Modern sealants mean this can be sorted.

I got into these cos I always like the look of them, from when I was a kid, and when I got the first one, I was pleasantly surprised at how well it drove (I got a decent 2000 with overdrive), so I kept it, bought a few more over theyears and still like driving them today.

So they are a decent car, but look out for rot, leaky windscreens, get it running properly and don't stick a Ford engine in.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 18/11/2007 at 14:41

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 11:55

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Victorbox

Some good restoration articles here (quite a bit of scrolling required) particularly of the low mileage find CXF 161G which I've seen in the metal & it is spooky to see a car from my teens looking brand new.
www.vauxhallclassics.co.uk/tutorial2002.htm

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 12:17

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - bell boy

very impressive indeed victorbox that site, one moan though, the very last picture
tinyurl.com/2dkkjr

im not happy with the way the nut sits

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 12:50

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Number_Cruncher

>>im not happy with the way the nut sits

It's a generally awful bracket!

Although that nut doesn't bear any load other than stopping the bracket rattling, it isn't good.

Even worse is the way that the bracket sits so far back from the front pulley, and feeds load and moment into the flimsy front fixing of the alternator. If it lasts any time, it's more by luck than by judgement!

Number_Cruncher

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 13:37

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - bell boy

'Even worse is the way that the bracket sits so far back from the front pulley, and feeds load and movement into the flimsy front fixing of the alternator. If it lasts any time, it's more by luck than by judgement!'

i think its a double bracket off the alternator there NC. if not then i totally agree one blip of the throttle and the lug will break,sometimes over engineering is worse than a bit of dexion

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 13:43

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Number_Cruncher

>>i think its a double bracket off the alternator there NC

If that's true BB, then, I agree it's OK, but I can't see the rear lug.

Number_Cruncher

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 20:18

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - Vansboy

My first car - similar to other Broomers, it seems, EUV 532C 101 DeLuxe in 2tone green. Bench seats & column change, had advantages, for a 17 year old single guy!

Later had VX 2300 estate, in white. A very nice car, auto too. Actually dsold it to a local taxt firm who had seen it around town & left a note on the screen if I wanted to sell!

Plenty of other makes n models between, but currently my Omega 2.5CDX estate, 10th birthday this month, is doing a grand job impersonating a van & skip lorry, while we do the new house up.

Might make me loyal to Vauxhall, with this selection - perhaps it'll be a Zafira next, despite me looking at Nazda Premacy & Mazda 5!

VB

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Mon 19 Nov 2007 20:40

Early '70s Victor - were they any good? - CMP

My Dad had a new Victor 101 Reg. YRO 275F in Blue 1967? I was about 4 years old at the time and there are 2 things I can remember about it.

1. I was always car sick on long journeys - every year we used to go camping in South of France which took 3 days back in those days and by day 2 I would be heaving every half hour.

2. It was always breaking down.

It took until 1974 to get him to buy a decent car (then) a Marina 1.8, which was heaven (then).

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