Mazda 323 (1998 - 2003) - Insurance Repair

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Sat 13 Oct 2007 10:30
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
Morning all

Am currently in negotiation with insurers regarding repair of my wife's car. They want to use pattern parts to reduce the costs. While I don't have a problem with this per se, the mechanic who I use said that pattern body panels may not be a very good fit. Am I within my rights to insist of genuine mazda body panels, but other bits (like headlamp and front panel) can be pattern. The engineer who assessed the car obviously has a duty to save money for the insurer as do we, but does that mean we have to sacrifice quality of repair?
The problem we have is, if I insist on genuine parts, the car likely to be uneconomical to repair and will be a total loss.

Thanks

Jonathan
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 10:53
Insurance Repair - blue_haddock
What year 323 is it? I sell panels for a living as from memory i can't think of much in the way of pattern parts available for the 323. Regarding the quality as long as they are thatcham approved then there should be no problem with fit anyway.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 11:59
Insurance Repair - bell boy
When they say pattern they might also mean second hand,(yes seriously) as blue says not many pattern parts available anyway, probably a bonnet and a headlight and to be honest pattern headlights are usually pretty dire in the long run.
If car accident not your fault then stand your corner if you want to but yes good possibility they might write the car off to save money.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 12:25
Insurance Repair - blue_haddock
Just had a look at the hadrians catalogue online and they list wings front panel and bonnet for the 98 on 323 and for the 95 to 98 model they list bonnet, bumper, wings, indicators and headlights. SEL list some stuff too but not a lot.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 12:41
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
Its a W 2000 323 TD.
I've had a quick look online and there do appear to be pattern parts available which are slightly cheaper than mazda parts (eg headlamp £95 instead of £157 and bonnet £120 instead of £160. We'd actually prefer the car to be written off so we can get a newer larger car. My concern is that if it is repaired with non oem parts then the panel gaps may be out which could devalue the car should we come to sell it.

The accident was her fault, but I don't see why we should accept a lower standard of repair, that's why we have comprehensive insurance.

Thanks

Jonathan
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 12:49
Insurance Repair - Simon
Generally speaking insurers only talk about your pattern parts when the use of genuine parts will write the vehicle off. Ie it is a borderline economical repair. There is nothing wrong with using pattern parts, admittedly they aren't quite as good quality but with a bit of extra work and attention to detail they can be fitted just as well. When the repair is complete it would be difficult to tell (if the work is done well) that pattern parts have been used.

That said if you don't want them to use pattern parts and want the car writing off then stand your ground. Just remember that your payout might not be that good and it may work out more financially viable to have the car repaired and then sell it on afterwards.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 13:10
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
Thanks for this.

The repairs are coming in around 1200 to 1300. The car is valued at around £2500 (dealer prices around £2700 - £2900). If we sold it privately we would be lucky to get £1800 - £2000 for it. If I insist on them using Mazda parts, the engineer said it would probably be a write off. Unfortunately he wants the garage to investigate the front panel, to see if it needs repairing or replacing before making a decision on whether to repair or write off. I'm not an engineer but the front end is pushed well in and I can't see how it isn't damaged. As it is a vital part of the structure of the vehicle I'd want it replacing if its been damaged.

Its the first time I've had to deal with repairs through an insurer so not sure exactly how much I'm allowed to stand my ground. Am I within my rights to say mazda parts only?

Cheers

Jonathan
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 13:29
Insurance Repair - Simon
The front panel is not a 'vital part of the structure' as you put it, but more of a flimsy piece of metal that everything bolts to at the front. It can be straightened without a problem if it is not too bent. I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

As for your car being woth only £1800 - £2000 privately, then expect the insurance to pay out a similar figure if it is written off. They will not pay out top book dealer price.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 14:07
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
As for your car being woth only £1800 - £2000 privately then expect the insurance
to pay out a similar figure if it is written off. They will not pay
out top book dealer price.


We're not expecting top dealer price for it, that's why I said £2500 instead of £2900. There aren't many of these cars for sale, so availability has to come into play when valuing it (currently 5 for sale nationally in autotrader all from traders).
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 14:08
Insurance Repair - Pugugly {P}
"currently 5 for sale nationally in autotrader all from traders"

You need to mention that in your negotiations
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 14:10
Insurance Repair - Pugugly {P}
Is the car's anti-corrosion warranty still valid ? You could mention that using pattern parts would compromise that.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 14:41
Insurance Repair - Simon
But if your car is only worth £1800 - £2000 then the insurance engineer/assessor will have most likely have worked this out too. The insurance will not pay you out more than what your car was worth pre-accident.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 14:59
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
But if your car is only worth £1800 - £2000 then the insurance engineer/assessor will
have most likely have worked this out too. The insurance will not pay you out
more than what your car was worth pre-accident.


So how can we replace the car with a similar one if there aren't any for sale? Surely a valuation for replacement has to be based on an achievable outcome.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 17:19
Insurance Repair - jacks
So how can we replace the car with a similar one if there aren't any
for sale? Surely a valuation for replacement has to be based on an achievable outcome.


Your insurers will only pay out market value based on trade in value against another car at a dealer. ie £1800-2000 (if that's what Trade is - I havn't checked).

You won't get "retail" value because your car - pre accident - didn't compare to a retail car in that you wern't in possession of: 6 months warranty, a car that was prepered to retail standard, freshly serviced, checked etc.

Even a new car - when written off - doesn't get a full retail cost amount paid out, that's why Gap Insurance exists.

I know it doesn't seem fair - but your policy is sold on the basis of "market" value replacement ....in the event of.................

J.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 17:54
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
I thought that GAP insurance was to cover the difference between a car's value and any finance outstanding
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 21:02
Insurance Repair - Dynamic Dave
I thought that GAP insurance was to cover the difference between a car's value and
any finance outstanding


Nope. You can take gap insurance out on a cash purchase as well. Basically you're buying an 'x' years insurance - if in that time of 'x' years the car gets written off, you get back the full amount that you paid for it. Some of the money comes from your car insurer, the remainder from the gap insurance. Basically you're insuring yourself to be put back in the same situation (financially wise) before the accident and when you first bought your car.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 13/10/2007 at 21:02

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Sat 13 Oct 2007 18:26
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
I've done some more digging and found this...

tinyurl.com/2qlcyj

Direct Line offer the insurance cover for total loss to be 'market value' As there are only 5 cars of this type for sale nationally and the cheapest is £2200 and the rest are either £2700 or £2900 it doesn't seem unreasonable to say that £2500 is a fair market value. We haven't been able to test the market so my estimate of £1800-£2000 was an educated guess based on what I would see the financial benefit of purchasing a car privately rather than through a trader.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 14:44
Insurance Repair - Simon
>>Is the car's anti-corrosion warranty still valid ? You could mention that using pattern
>>parts would compromise that.

The cars anti-corrosion warranty only applies to the bits that it left the factory with. Any subsequent repair work is warrantied by the repairer and you can't expect the manufacturer to cover someones elses work.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 19:17
Insurance Repair - Pugugly {P}
Never read the thing in detail but recalled something along the lines of "any repair has to be to the manufacturer's specification or the warranty will be invalidated" just a thought.
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 19:40
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
I've skimmed through the policy information and it says that all repairs will use parts approved by the manufacturer. Not sure, but I'd have thought that Mazda aren't likely to approve non oem parts.

www.directline.com/motor/claim01.htm#q3
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Sat 13 Oct 2007 19:41
Insurance Repair - martint123
A friend was offered a pattern part repair on an MX5.
The pattern bonnet was steel, whereas the Mazda one is lightweight alloy. He declined.
Also check your policy. I see mine says use of pattern parts - For me, the lower premium has been worth it over the last xx years.

Martin
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Sun 14 Oct 2007 15:07
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
Thanks for all the replies

Just to clarify, can I insist on using mazda parts which will mean the car is written off?

Cheers

Jonathan
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Sun 14 Oct 2007 16:40
Insurance Repair - martint123
Looking at their T&C's I think you would have to specify using your own repairer who would use genuine parts rather than insisting their own repairer used genuine parts.
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Sun 14 Oct 2007 17:10
Insurance Repair - Jonathan {p}
I am using my own repairer. His rates are £27 per hour which is much less than other places (and certainly much cheaper than a mazda dealer)
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Sun 14 Oct 2007 18:57
Insurance Repair - martint123
Just get him to quote then, using Mazda parts and see what DL come back with.

What happens if I want to use my own repairer?
You can use a repairer of your own choice but doing so means that we can't guarantee the work and you will need to obtain an estimate for us to approve before work can commence.

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