Nicoles clio was an ex rantal. Bought at 6 months/11k miles old.
was a very good car
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Personally I've seen the way hire & demo cars get treated.
I've seen brand new hire cars driven so hard they have overheated (and continued being driven).
I've seen brand new hire cars driven so hard, smoke poured from under the bonnet from the clutch burning.
I've seen brand new demo cars with the front brake discs glowing red hot.
The odds of getting one thats been treated like that are fairly low I agree, but still a distinct possibility. I would simply not touch one with a barge pole unless I was sure I was going to be selling it again before the warranty expired (and even then only if heavily discounted).
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As I said higher up,HARD driving will not damage a car but abuse will-for a car to overheat,there must be something wrong-driving-even hard driving won't cause it and it won't cause clutch problems either.
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As I said higher up HARD driving will not damage a car but abuse will-for a car to overheat there must be something wrong-driving-even hard driving won't cause it and it won't cause clutch problems either.
Where do you draw the line between hard driving and abuse? Surely abuse is just driving it VERY hard?
I wouldn't worry about thrashing a fully warmed up engine (as long as it's not in the red), but I would consider thrashing from cold to be abuse. Or there could be some less enthusiastic drivers going up hills in 4th or 5th gear. With test drives the engine is cost for almost all of the drive, and when I test a vehicle I want to test the performance too, ie. upto 5000+rpm!
Abuse of other things probably won't be as bad eg. gearbox, clutch, steering. I haven't noticed the salesmen rushing/abusing the gears.
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Our demonstrators spent very little time out on test drives, their main purpose was as cheap company cars for the sales team, they were also lent out as courtesy cars and used to run general errands during the day.
Oh, I asked my dad if I was right about the address and I was, the V5 shows previous keeper's name and home address, and it is a home address 'cos we Google Earthed it out of morbid curiosity. :-)
Blue
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Where do you draw the line between hard driving and abuse? Surely abuse is just driving it VERY hard?
my friend says he likes to drive hire/courtesy cars along dual carriageways in 2nd gear
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I've seen demo & hire cars driven from stone cold, on the rev limiter until the temp is past the red segment and the engine starts to misfire.
I've also seen them repetetively used for standing starts where they are rev'd to 7500 rpm and the clutch dumped. Eventually the clutch loses it's bite and starts to slip.
Don't ask me why, by the way - not something I approve of, or even see the point of... but happens nonetheless.
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So I assume whoopwhoop you only buy brand new cars and collect them straight off the production line then drive them home yourself. Surely this is the only way you can be certain a car hasn't been abused.
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No, I drive company cars where I don't give much of a hoot either way.
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And if I didn't drive company cars, I'd by a genuine used car (i.e. one thats been owned privately). I certainly wouldn't buy a "demo" or a "hire" car which had been driven by dozens, if not hundreds of different drivers, none of which had any vested interests in the car.
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But, whoop whoop how would you know how the car had been driven. You wouldn't know if the dealer whom you bought it from second hand had taken it home at night and raced it - or if the original delivery driver had raced it prior to its first owner. And you don't know how its first owner treated it, whether he took it on a track day.
Tell you what, if you ever have to buy a car, buy a sub-£1000 car. 90% chance it will be fine, maximum exposure £1000. ;)
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Oh dear MapMaker!
I would have thought any intelligent adult would be able to work out that the chances of a privately owned car (whose owner has a vested interest in it's resale value) having been abused is significantly lower than an ex-hire car which has had hundreds of drivers, none of whom give a hoot about it's resale value.
It's not rocket science fella!
Sure, there are no certainties in life..... but most sensible people minimise risks wherever possible.
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You still don't know who the last owner but one was. And no, not all owner drivers are careful with their motors. Blue relates a 1 year old 10k Fiesta (?) which had been trashed by its owner.
And you don't know how it was treated by the supplying garage. Was it a pre-reg... or a demo? Who knows. I don't believe you can be so dogmatic. What about the 17 year old son who thrashed it without telling Daddy? You can never know.
Speaking personally, I don't thrash hire cars. I still have to put the petrol in and prefer 40mpg to 20.
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As you seem to be missing the point completely, let me make an analogy :
A 10 year old Alfa stands more chance of breaking down than a 10 year old Honda. That doesn't mean that all 10 year old Alfa's break down, nor does it mean that all 10 year old Hondas are 100% reliable. But the odds are that the Alfa will break down more often. It's just the way it is.
In the same way. Out of 1000 HIRE cars, odds are that a significant number will have been abused. Not all, but many will.
Out of 1000 PRIVATELY OWNED cars, odds are that very few will have been abused. Some will, but relatively few.
It is all about RISK.
I've helped you all I can. If you can't understand that (or choose not to) then all the best fella. I've neither the time nor the inclination to try to convince you of what is essentially a basic concept! :-)
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>It is all about RISK.
No, there's more to it than just risk. From a risk perspective alone you might be closer to reality on a probabilty basis.
But the potential rewards have been explained to you several times - not just by me - and there doesn't seem to be much point in being patronised by somebody who doesn't seem to want to understand.
And for those of you who think that because it is on expenses then it doesn't matter... you clearly don't care about your employer's bottom line and your bonus.
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I've been known to cane the odd hire car and the petrol bill goes on expenses...
There's a certain smell you only get from a brand new car with 6 miles on the clock that you've had bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear.....allegedly
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in the days I used to drive the M8 regularly every late July you'd see unregistered cars on trade plates doing 95mph between Edinburgh and Glasgow as dealers juggled stock before the new reg number change. So some poor souls were getting '2nd hand' cars and paying handsomely for the privelige. Then they'd probably be saying to themselves I must drive it gently 'cos it's new.....
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Not convinced 95mph would be anything to be concerned about personally. Certainly not "abuse" per se...
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some people are postulating here that ex-demo and/or hrie cars are likely to be abused and/or thrashed.
but they have failed to provide a shred of evidence to support this theory.
it is a totally baseless theory in my opinion.
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p.s "postulate" :
dictionary.reference.com/browse/postulate :
5. something taken as self-evident or assumed without proof as a basis for reasoning.
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p.s "postulate" : dictionary.reference.com/browse/postulate : 5. something taken as self-evident or assumed without proof as a basis for reasoning.
p.s. "wrong" :
dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant
2. deviating from truth or fact; erroneous: a wrong answer.
3. not correct in action, judgment, opinion, method, etc., as a person
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some people are postulating here that ex-demo and/or hrie cars are likely to be abused and/or thrashed. but they have failed to provide a shred of evidence to support this theory.
Evidence? If you come with me on a test drive I can show you some evidence. I've done it, what more evidence do you need?
Having said that, I would be more gentle with a hire car, but not as gentle as I am with my car (or another privately owned car).
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PS I stand corrected over the MB V5 issue. Apologies Blue.
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quote P3t3r : I wouldn't buy one personally. I've seen how much the salesmen (some of them at least) abuse them. I've test driven some, and would never treat a car like it if it wasn't a demonstrator, I murdered one of them, but probably no more than the salesman did.
quote Bill Payer : Few years ago I went to test drive a Peugeot 406 Exec .... and found both front tyres bald. At 4000 miles!
quote hjd : I bought an ex-management/head office Peugeot 307 - less than a year old ..... I took it back to the supplying garage eventually as I was convinced it was unsafe to drive
quote whoopwhoop : It had just 16 miles on the clock. 30 seconds after start-up it was bouncing off the rev-limited and continued to do so for 60 minutes of pure thrashing...mechanical failure and didn't last till the end of the day. Two clutches were burnt out; one manual gearbox lost it's synchromesh, and one had a DSG failure.
quote flunky : my friend says he likes to drive hire/courtesy cars along dual carriageways in 2nd gear
quote normd2 : I've been known to cane the odd hire car and the petrol bill goes on expenses...
There's a certain smell you only get from a brand new car with 6 miles on the clock that you've had bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear.....allegedly
Sorry Dalglish, if you choose to bury your head and ignore the evidence, thats fine... doesn't mean it isn't there if you open your eyes!
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... Sorry Dalglish, if you choose to bury your head and ignore the evidence, thats fine ..
clearly your idea of what constitutes "evidence" is not shared by me.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/gullible
easily deceived or cheated.
easily tricked or fooled
Example: He is so gullible that he believes everything you tell him.
Synonyms: credulous, trusting, naive, innocent, simple, ..
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Sorry - what do you expect as evidence in a public discussion forum Dalglish?
If numerous seperate individuals all reporting having seen hire cars being abused doesn't constitute evidence, then your wearing blinkers. Either way, I really couldn't care less. Enjoy your retort - it won't be read by me ;-)
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If numerous seperate individuals all reporting having seen hire cars being abused doesn't constitute evidence then your wearing blinkers.
Ok, so evidence of abuse, but is there evidence that ex hire / lease / demo cars when sold on to Joe Public are anymore unreliable, problematic, use copious amounts of oil, etc, than when a car is bought new or 2nd hand from a private owner?
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in reply to whoopwhoop:If numerous seperate individuals all reporting having seen hire cars being abused doesn't constitute evidence ...
the word is "anectdotal" Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis
other possible fallacies in the arguments include: post hoc ergo propter hoc, faulty generalisation, biased sample, etc.. an example of this type of faulty reasoning is of p3t3r, as quoted below
in reply to p3t3r:Evidence? If you come with me on a test drive I can show you some evidence. I've done it, ..
because some people behave like vandals (i.e. disrespect for other people's property) does not mean that the majority of the population behave like vandals. in fact, if they are like me, they will treat other people's property with greater respect than they do thier own. all to do with good manners and a reflection on one's upbringing and/or parental care.
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Just put my twopennith(?) in,
With the amount of new vehicles being bought on lease plans and what not (with credit so easy to come by these days), what's to say that someone who knows he's only going to be owning the car for 3-yrs and then handing it back is going to be treating it well?
That person's got no vested interested in keeping the car for longer than he has to and then onto the next car (but this would be listed as a private person.....)
In the last 6 months wouldn't some of you treat it the same as you would a hire car or demonstrator?
Chris
PS I've got to say that never driven anyone elses vehicle any different to mine. I have too much mechanical sympathy for that. Is there actually any fun in bouncing a car off the rev limiter for any length of time?
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No worries Whoop Whoop, I would have been skeptical too. :-)
Blue
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