Have other backroomers noticed an increasing number of oncoming vehicles rounding bends with a wheel or more on 'your' side of the road? I decided to learn how to ride a motorbike last year and really had to learn to watch out for this!
Maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I've never had cause to notice it in the last 15 years or so.
No particular group of motorist seems culpable - it could just as easily be an OAP in a Montego or a young female in a RAV4.....
BTW, I'm not talking about 'straightening' a series of bends with good forward visibility, but rather the taking of 'blind' bends.......
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Have other backroomers noticed an increasing number of oncoming vehicles rounding bends with a wheel or more on 'your' side of the road?
Yes. It's especially bad in the Lake District and North Yorkshire where the roads are narrow and the walls unforgiving. And there definitely are "worst offenders": townies in big shiny stuff, usually with equally shiny mountain bikes on the roof or tailgate, or towing twin axle caravans hewn from solid onyx.
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its down to........
namby pamby people who are too dammed lazy to keep to their side of the road
reasons
laziness
power steering
mobile phones
canned drinks
ready to eat food
sweets
lairy girlfriends/boyfriends
trying to work out how they will pay this monhs bills with their 24 credit cards
drink
drugs
lack of brain cells
too many airbags
too many programmes telling you you can walk if your car has 5 stars protection
laziness
laziness
did i mention the lazy people? thing is if they want to kill themselves i wish they would shoot off into a hedge like they seem to these days four to the mile and flowers to prove it by grieving family that lay postumas flowers on anything that doesnt move (i assume all graveyards are now full so they cant stick their flowers there) but i dont want to go with them so am always having to make dangerous manouveres to miss these idiots on a death wish
mmmmmmmm feel better now
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It could also be down to the fact many of these roads were built when goods were transported to the daily markets by horse and cart and cars getting wider with each update to accomodate all the pedestrian friendly bodywork and occupant friendly airbags, side impact systems, extra strength bracing, wider seats for wider rear ends...the list goes on.
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Ah, bell boy - I thought there had to be a simple explanation!
It doesn't only happen on narrow roads, either :-(
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99.9% of driver's aren't taught how to take bends properly anyway. Whatever they are taught most think the correct way is to apex it 'cos that's how Hamilton does it and he is really quick'. So we are back to driver education again, but if YOU do it properly you should be more prepared from anyone who does cross the line.
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From the lofty perch of my bike last night, I followed a Subaru Forrester, he was "modifying" bends in a very irritating way, making it difficult to predict his lines, I'm sure he thought he was doing well pulling away from the "biker" the reality was I kept dropping back to try and get a "view" ahead of him, I eventually overtook him on a straight uphill bit of road, but his driving was atrocious.
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Motorcyclist are the worst for this, they don't actually cross the line but come round the bend on the line but leaning over into the other side of the road. Twice I've seen motorcyclists nearly get their heads knocked off this way one by a coach and another a truck, both these large vehicles having to use the full width of their side of the road to get round the corner.
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More fool them......I wish I'd videoed the Police motoricyclist I was following last night (as mentioned in R1200GS thread) total control, immaculate corner discipline an absolute object lesson in riding style. Following his line provided the best view possible on any given bend, speed into bends near perfect for a balance between progress, control and position on exit - poetry in motion.I doubt whether he touched the white lines even when overtaking...and he was enjoying it !
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Bikers are taught how to take bends, but lose the 'L' plates and they are all Valentino Rossi.
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That was constructive ! Could never accuse any car drivers of the same substituting Rossi for Schumacher/Hamilton.....
Personally I'm two Valentino Rossi's, twice the size and half as fast.
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"Could never accuse any car drivers of the same substituting Rossi for Schumacher/Hamilton.....
"
I did a few posts above. repeated below.
"Whatever they are taught most think the correct way is to apex it 'cos that's how Hamilton does it and he is really quick'. "
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Noticed this much more since riding bikes, you become far more aware of poor driving standards in general and much more hazard-aware. I'm sure that the bike training has helped my general driving awareness enormously, particularly observation and positioning.
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The fact is there are good and bad on the road in all sorts of vehicles. The bikers who cut the centre line tend to have a shorter career than most or learn a very hard lesson.
"Bikers are taught how to take bends, but lose the 'L' plates and they are all Valentino Rossi."
I would have to disagree with you there. Bikers are not taught how to take bends.
I took a five day course and passed my test on a CB500. The following day I was riding a CBR600. Totally different machines in how you set them up for corners, braking etc... and nothing in the training prepares you for this.
This is the same as learning in a Corsa/Micra then driving some high performance car which again requires a different approach to cornering, braking etc...
You are taught how to pass the test. Once you have your licence then you start to learn how to drive/ride is my experience.
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For left handers running close to (or slightly over) the centre line is good for visibility. Providing you move back in if anything approaches.
For right handers positioning to the far left helps visibility.
This is the same for cars and lorries etc. where it also helps keep the back end on the correct side of the road & off the pavement.
Apexing a blind right bend maybe just laziness or misjudging the corner and approaching it too fast
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Police Advanced Driving teaches the driver to use ALL the road where it is safe to do so; thereby making the shortest, straightest and most progressive route.
Having said that that its all about planning and looking further ahead and poisitioning the vehicle for a smooth and safe drive. The driver should never cause another driver to alter course or speed.
Having said all that there have been occasions when the car is positioned on the offside of the road on the approach to a left hand bend to get an 'early view' when Joe Public comes from the opposite direction looking not much further than the end of the bonnet to seemingly be confronted by a vehicle probably travelling into three figures, approaching on the wrong side of the road. However the timing and positioning allows the driver to take the second option and move back to the nearsde , reduce speed and round the bend with no impact on the other driver. Nevertheless the reaction is flashing of headlights and gesturing.
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Fullchat
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"Bikers are not taught how to take bends."
I don't know when you did your test, but a colleague is currently going through bike training and 'Roadcraft' including positioning on the road is a major part of what she is being taught.
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Yes, increasingly becoming standard practice. Never mind corners, I pass people everyday who drive like that on the straights too. Some grudgingly move over at the last minute, others couldn't care less.
I don't think bikers are particularly guilty. Apart from one the other day who was coming towards me on the wrong side of the road because all the trafic in his direction was stationary. He was over double white lines, but still seemed to think I was going to stop and pull over onto the verge for him.
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Took my test five years ago on a direct access five day course.
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I would have to disagree with you there. Bikers are not taught how to take bends. I took a five day course and passed my test on a CB500. The following day I was riding a CBR600. Totally different machines in how you set them up for corners braking etc... and nothing in the training prepares you for this. This is the same as learning in a Corsa/Micra then driving some high performance car which again requires a different approach to cornering braking etc...
I must've had a better teacher than you. I was taught the best place to put the bike to see round corners.
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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This sort of sloppy driving seems to be split pretty evenly between cars and bikes on my regular routes.
My particular pet hate is the 'straddle the centre line to turn left routine'... usually taken hugely slower than it could have been even on the correct (safe) line.
As regards to bikers (and I count myself among them) most of them around here DO ride like Rossi. That's Francis Rossi; not Valentino...
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>My particular pet hate is the 'straddle the centre line to turn left routine'...
How about 'turn right onto the wrong side of the road you're turning into', oblivious to the oncoming vehicle you force to perform an emergency stop ten metres short of the junction? A little part of me would like to see a bollard at the mouth of T-junctions to remind drivers which side they ought to be - but it would presumably be demolished by the first HGV driver to get lost and try to turn in.
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UK drivers should count their blessings. Here in New Zealand the concept of road positioning is unknown, except for those who (like me) have spent some years driving in UK. All of the sins mentioned above are in abundance here on a daily basis. Our driving test is very basic compared to the UK one and the driving age here is 15. The practice of letting people out/across with a flash of the headlights is just starting to happen. When I returned from UK about five years ago, I thought I was the only one doing it, and it would often result in a slack-jawed stare from the other driver. It's a little better now, and I have even seen other people doing it, which is real progress. The other thing I notice is that large numbers of drivers here seem to be driving on Valium. The reaction time to green traffic lights can sometimes be measured in whole seconds.
So if you want some interesting driving, come to New Zealand for a holiday. It will provide enough motoring anecdotes to keep you amused for some time.
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My road positioning differs depending which of the family cars I am driving. I never realised this until I read this post. The reasoning is that the A post on one of our cars (Pug 307) causes a much greater blind spot than that on our other car (Nissan Note), thus road positioning differs between the two cars in order to get a clearer view.
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Driving fairly frequently on 2 of the top worst roads for accidents in UK (Leek-Buxton, Congelton-Buxton) memories are of a new A4 completely on the wrong side of a blind bend heading straight for me.. and biker ditto on a hairpin on the white line... at my verge..
These are not single track roads btw.
We have a number of single track roads near us and fortunately they are.
1. out of the way
2. quite slow to drive - twisty, poor surfaces etc
and 3.
the muppets who drive on the wrong side of the road would have crashed/ been forced off the road by a tractor,,
So it's the muppets . Most look in their 40s or 50s apart from the baseball hatted brigade... doing 50 in 30 limits... overtaking:-(
madf
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Yes, I had read about New Zealand before and the high number of head-on crashes mainly due to drivers straying over the centre line presumably on the straights too. The number of these was higher than for stupid overtaking. Apparently the authorities are aware but it's getting people to sort themselves out.
I've noticed it getting worse in the UK too. Wider, heavier cars probably don't help but most people probably don't realise they are doing it or have ever considered the possibility. What also annoys me is the drivers of lorries/coaches who obviously know they are going round a bend on the wrong side of the road but do not slow down at all. They expect everyone else to slow down or move over for them. And I used to think lorry and coach drivers were professionals.
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On the narrow local B653, I'm ready to use a sustained flash of headlights if I see a wanderer approaching and I suspect it isn't going to have its path corrected. There's no negotiating with skip trucks though, whose drivers are usually on the phone. There's also the problem of some drivers (I leave you to guess which) whose lack of spatial awareness doesn't help -- straddling the marked centre line with a metre clear on their nearside.
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What's more annoying is when you're on a dual carriageway and the person ahead is well over the centre line....and driving below the limit. Grrrrrrr.
I always feel like a thug when I beep my horn though :(
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My bike instructor was very hot on corner position, and the one and only time I ever put my head over the white line on a right hander (despite wheels clearly to the left of it), I was immediately pulled up and the error of my ways explained in great detail.
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
97 Ford Fiesta 1.4 16v Chicane (for sale)
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If anyone here is familiar with the junction of Temple Road with Chase Road and Waterloo Road in Epsom this thread will ring a few bells!
For those not familar with Epsom, it's a very busy location and the three roads form a three pointed star pattern at about 120 degrees between each. Although none of the three roads are classified, Chase Road / Waterloo Road have high volumes of HGV traffic, including massive articulated bulk tippers, because of a low railway bridge on the classified route [ B284, Hook Road towards A24 East Street ].
Coming out of Temple Road - no problem; you can see the other two directions clearly.
But coming the other way, the left hand bend from Chase Road into Waterloo Road is virtually blind. Most people fail to slow down for this.
Yet everyone [ except me - honest! ] coming from Waterloo Road into Chase Road goes well over the line again without slowing down. The HGVs actually cover ALL of the road here!
Sooner or later there is going to be a bit of a spectacular prang here.
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Driving is an art. It is very time consuming to master.
As a scooter rider since 16 years of age, and now riding motorbikes and cars, I have indeed noticed in London especially the quality of driving has fallen dramatically. It is probably caused by a number of things, but generally London drivers are more aggressive, which is probably caused by the fact there is more traffic and heart rates rise with this.
I think driving and riding is a skill. When we learn to drive, we do as the rule books state. This is because of lack of experience.
But as an advanced driver, I use my own judgement now. For example, I will straighten a bend only if I can see very far ahead, and if I know the road well. Or if I see a person on the motorway behind me driving fast, I will look around me to make sure I have an escape route, or even put my hazard lights on.
So it is an art: we create new ways to be safer; We choose which gear to rev ratio to use once we now where we gain the most power advantage;
And amazingly, owning a 125cc motorcycle and 650cc motorcycle, I really can't see a huge difference between the two (except of course the power difference.)
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