Thanks for the interesting review, Bagpuss. I'd like to try one - I think I'd quite enjoy it. Purchase price is too high for me, so I'd be unlikely to buy one.
And then there is always the fact that one doesn't really want to drive a car which says "I'm a very self-righteous person." That may be one of Toyota's biggest problems.
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And yet another review that proves it's not a 70mpg wonder car.
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Purchase price is too high for me so I'd be unlikely to buy one.
Indeed. It has always appeared to me that they sell it as a statement, rather than a car. They don't seem to market it to compete against similar-sized cars, only as a pious eco statement, which is a bit silly, as the eco-freaks might be better off with a smaller diesel car, which would be more fuel-efficient, as well as cheaper, and less consuming of resources in its construction.
I guess the problem is that as a competitor to say a Peugeot 307 1.6 HDi 90, the fuel consumption will not be substantially better (the Pegueot does 55mpg combined), and the Pegeuot can be yours for £11.5k, against £16.5k for the Pious.
And while the 307 is outrageously taxed at £115/year, the £80/year saving will take a very long time to make a dent in £5,000. The only grace is that the Pious will depreciate more slowly, losing about 30% of the (discounted) selling price, or £5,000, in 3 years, against 48% of the (discounted) selling price of the 307, which is £5,500. So the Pious actually works out cheaper.
But trading in for a new Pious after 3 years seems to rather defeat the point... And by 10 years, a more sensible amount of time, both cars will likely be <£1,000, so the £5k extra up front has cost you. And over 100,000 miles if the Pious does an extra 10mpg over the 307, you will save about £1,250, along with £800 in road tax, which is far less than the £5,000 more it cost in the first place. And I would have thought the 307 would be cheaper to service than a complex hybrid vehicle.
So whatever way you look at it, the Pious has to be purely an eco-statement, and cannot compete against other cars of its size. And used, they are even more bonkers.
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One of the most enviromentally unfriendly cars on the planet due to its weight the production materials in the batteries and the problem of not being able to easily dispose of them plus all the added electronics in the vehicle containing pcb's, were originally rushed out to meet the calofornia percetage of production car reaching certain gas immissions and to toyotas amazement people bought them.
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This morning, the person doing about 85 in a Prius in the fast lane, just before entering the 50 MPH "Communications Upgrade" section of the M4 wasn't exactly environmentally friendly...
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The whole hybrid technology would surely work better with a diesel. I can't wait to see how the PSA diesel hybrid fares when that is launched (next year?). If it works, it will surely pull the sack cloth from under the Prius's feet?
Of course Toyota could never do a Prius diesel , because the car is aimed at the US market, where diesel is ignored, if not outlawed in some States.
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When comparing the price - do at least take into account that the Prius is an automatic, and a damned good one - better than a conventional or MMT transmission, in my opinion. That would add maybe £1000 as a cost option to most similar cars, and you often can't even get an automatic diesel.
Of course, most petrolheads here probably don't want an automatic anyway, but if you're looking for an automatic, the Prius starts to look a lot better in a cost comparison.
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I think the key thing that alot of people seem to overlook is that the Prius was designed I think to be a distinctly better alternative in markets where petrol and automatic is the norm ie the US, Japan, Australia etc. These are markets where the competitor vehicles that we would consider in Europe eg PSA/Ford/VW CR Turbo diesels are notably absent either because of legislation eg California or through their parents choosing a different model strategy or in the case of PSA/Renault not being present at all in the market (for a gamut of reasons which we could go into).
In comparison with a typical US petrol automatic car doing say 25/27mpg then a Prius does seem quite alot more economical and for a switching driver there is nothing that odd about a Prius ie its fuelled by the same petrol as everything else and does not require learning to stick shift (remember an aweful lot of US drivers have no idea how to drive a manual and never have had to learn).
Also I think the way people have described the car's driving feel it does look suited to a more US driving style ie cruising about in town/country with less overt acceleration, overtaking and jostling that you see/need to do in Europe.
I think though the technical experience of having launched the Prius, learning how users fare and made it fairly widespread must have given Toyota quite a head start in terms of making the next generation ones, including plug in varieties and diesel/hybrids. I wonder if they will launch Corrolla and Avensis model versions?
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I have twice had test drives in the Prius - the original 'mk11' in late 2003 & the later update in 2006. I was quite techno-struck by the cars, the silent electric motor mode, the minimalist fascia, the dinky 'gearstick' , cvt-type transmission, cruise control, geeky lcd display etc.
Driving dynamics were entirely adequate for me, after all it's a mini-MPV type of thing with high driving position & judged as that does its job. The only aspect that put me off - and this is rather an obsession of mine really - was the lumpy, crashy ride. The American version, I'm led to believe, has more 'sensible' 15inch rims & taller tyres & slightly more forgiving suspsension than the 'sportier' European version - we probably can thank but lateral G obsessed motoring journalists for that though. As my driving style tends to achieve better-than-advertised MPG, I'm sure the economy controversy would fall in my favour. The interior, in my view, would benefit from more solid, soft-touch plastics & leather seats. The sound system (JBL cd- multichanger) was quite, good enough for me anyway with my 'drive-time' sort of tastes. It also has a great feeling of space, most akin to a Picasso I drove once, with rear legroom on a par with a Skoda Superb.
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after all it's a mini-MPV type of thing
Is it?
More a slightly fat Corolla, I thought.
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Very interesting thread - good work, Bagpuss, for starting it off.
Like some others here, I'm intrigued by the Prius mainly because it's different. There's one that passes my house occasionally and its near-silence is welcome. There's something to be said for daring to be different, although I agree that its 'green' credentials have been rather over-sold. (As has the spiteful anti-Prius backlash, I should add.)
Coincidentally, I'll be visiting my local Toyota shop this week to try a Verso T180; perhaps I should ask to try a Prius while I'm there.
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I think the key thing that alot of people seem to overlook is that the Prius was designed I think to be a distinctly better alternative in markets where petrol and automatic is the norm ie the US Japan Australia etc.
In other words it's not a car that's a sensible choice, except to posture, in the UK. And in the US it doesn't seem to make sense either, a regular Honda Civic does 30/40mpg city/highway, against 50/50 for the hybrid. Gas costs just $3/gallon, and the hybrid costs $7,000 more than the non-hybrid, so over 150,000 miles, the hybrid will use about 1000 gallons less. 1000 * $3 = $3000. So not even close to recovering the cost.
The only way to offset this would be to basically pay people to buy them, i.e. by giving people a full tax write-off of the price of the car.
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But why do critics think the Prius is forced to justify itself purely on cost grounds? Why don't you criticise a BMW as not being a sensible choice when compared to a Civic?
Maybe, like a BMW purchaser, a Prius purchaser isn't simply trying to buy the cheapest car possible...
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It was interesting reading your response Avant as someone interested in the Prius and the Verso
The Verso is now available to order with an Automatic diesel they have got rid of the MMT thank goodness its is a torque converter gearbox !!
I was really interested in the Prius not because of its green credentials but because I wanted an Automatic and I thought the car was a little different from the run of the mill cars .!
The thing that has put it out of the running is the fact that they reduced the warranty from 8 years /100,000 miles to 5 years /60,000 miles on the hybrid technology.
While I know diesel engines can suffer from there problems to many people this is a new technology just look how long it took people to accept the Citroen hydro gas suspension .
Why have Toyota reduced this warranty ?? a backward step in my view if the claims on it were small why reduce it!! will it have a knock on affect on used values
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