|
My brother has owned a number of BMWs in his lifetime and has owned several 5 series estate cars. He needs them for work and has had wonderful service from them.He managed to get his last 5 series estate when the old shape was finally going out.So none of them had the I-drive system.
|
|
|
Wonder why on earth they did it though- 3 or 4 operations to change the radio station?????
I guess they did it bceause there are so many functions embedded in the car now that without I-Drive the dashboard would be a mass of buttons. In real life I find it perfectly easy to use... the only way its 3 or 4 operations to change the radio station is if you're not currently listening to the radio, and deliberately go the long way through the menus.
I find the easiest way is just to use the voice control - just saying FM1, FM2 etc will just take you to those presets regardless of whats displaying on the screen. Failing that, if you're listening to the radio just use the channel up/down buttons on the steering wheel, and if you're not listening to the radio but a CD, use the source button on the steering wheel (then channel as appropriate). In addition, whereever you are in the menu (pre shortcuts) a push and hold in the relevant direction (ie 'entertainment') takes you straight to the last function you used in that menu (ie radio, if that's what you listen to). All becomes intuitive pretty quickly, and once you are used to it you have quicker access to far more functionality than in many other cars... I'm not saying its perfect, but its no where near as complex as people make out.
Just my thoughts...
Peter
|
|
Exactly Peter - so what's so difficult about it. Are you left handed by any chance ?
|
As it happens I'm not left handed Pugugly, though can see that might make it even more intuitive. I really don't see what the problem is though; I've done around 40k miles with I-Drive, and although it took a couple of weeks to learn what functionality was available (rather than how to access it...) I think its a perfectly acceptable solution to the problem of button overload on the dash. In contrast, our Megane II CC has no Sat Nav or Bluetooth, and standard climate control, CD and CD Multichanger. It has far more buttons on the dashboard to control far less functionaility...
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for taking the trouble to tell me this Peter. I will take proper note of this.
|
I recently had a short test drive (1 hour - 30 miles) in a new 535d, fully loaded.
I am a computer expert, and in my opinion the entire car is an ergonomic disaster zone.
Frankly the mondeo is a better car in nearly every way.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
Frankly the mondeo is a better car in nearly every way. ------------------------------
You mean other than the excellent RWD chassis, high power engines that actually do provide a modicum of thrust and the excellent tech toys like the HUD?
|
It had none of them, so yes its better.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
So a 2 generations old car with low power engines, an excellent but necessarily limited FWD chassis and technology from the ark is better in your opinion?
|
Frankly yes. I was shocked by how mediocre and uninspiring this 5 series was. Nothing about it was special, the ergonomics were rubbish (the sat nav was out of sight, the i-drive was a pain in the, the voice recognition? something like an airplane movie. The ride was no better than the touran and the handling was not much better - a focus beats it hands down.
Had i paid for this car, or it was on my BIK, I would be gutted I had wasted so much money.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
The ride was no better than the touran and the handling was not much better - a focus beats it hands down.
I was with you right up to this point. A focus does not beat a 5 series hands down and neither does a Mondeo- at least in my opinion and of more or less everybody else in the world. It's rear driven for a start, the balance of the car is unbelievable for a saloon and the steering is precise and well weighted.........and that's before we even start on the engines. Maybe you're right and everyone else is wrong, there are people out there who believe the earth is flat...........
|
It matters not, I have traveled around the world, havenet fallen off the edge, and I still consider the 5 series a shocking disapointment. You cant change any of those facts.
The problem is I think that I have not driven a beemer for some time, probably about 5 years. To find out its actually no better than a car half its price is - to say the least - suprising.
But then I dont have to justify wasting so much money on my car, with so little tangible benefit other than snob value. How about you?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
But then I dont have to justify wasting so much money on my car with so little tangible benefit other than snob value. How about you?
No I bought a high performance Audi which has no peers. As I've said here before the 535D I test drove was a massive dissapointment to me with it's heavy and uninspiring power plant. However it was still light years ahead of anything mainstream manufacturers offer with diesel powerplants. Anyone who doesn't think a 6 cylinder diesel pushing out well over 280bhp and 560nm isn't in a different league to the best 4 cylinders on offer from the likes of Ford is either lying, insane or on drugs.
Likewise the V8 and V10 petrols. These cars are better- tangibly. If you're talking about poverty spec cars with small engines you might have a point. Unless of course you are leasing one in which case the BMW is probably cheaper.........
Actually I almost forgot about the Alpina D3- nothing any other manufacturer makes offers it's blend of low taxation class and power. Not to mention RWD which is part of the reason BMW's steer so well..........
|
|
I've just seen Fifth Gear's article on the M5 Touring - dynamics apart - I can guarantee you that nothing, I repeat nothing on earth sounds like that V10.....I want one.
|
|
I totally agree. I saw Tiffs drive with the M5 saloon. Get me one please!!!!! If only they could remove that confounded I-drive. It didn't seem to stop Tiff. His fuel consumption was a tiny bit heavy when he pressed P for power? He enjoyed thrashing it at the circuit at Pau in the South of France I think. I saw one of those M5 saloons in black at a major BMW showroom when I visited Portadown the other day. It looked incredible. If I brought that back to Dublin, the tax I would have to pay in the Republic would destroy me!!
|
|
Pau isn't a full time circuit- it's a fantastic street race that everyone should go and see. The thrill of watching Cosworth DFV powered Formula One cars blasting round normal roads has to be seen to be believed. They also do a F3 euro series and Porsches some weekends later. Tiff's report was partially done there but mostly at Arnos a circuit some distance away from Pau.
|
It really is unbelievable that such a great company makes such a mess with the I-drive and doesn't correct it. The present % series came out in 2003 (correct me please if I am wrong).Surely if something is very troublesome in such a popular car they will improve it. As I said before, my brother has driven very extensively for many many years with mainly 5 series BMW and he has had fantastic service. He didn't buy the new BMW 5 series though.He also drives an older M3.
I know Mercedes got in to appalling reliability problem, but they are definitely doing a lot about it. Certain unreliable parts are being replaced.I have read quite a bit about it and the company is obviously making big changes.
To change the subject, the present 5 series is a lovely looking car with good load carrying capabilities. When it appeared it was very highly rated.
|
|
>> Frankly the mondeo is a better car in nearly every way. >> ------------------------------ You mean other than the excellent RWD chassis high power engines that actually do provide a modicum of thrust and the excellent tech toys like the HUD?
I am with TVM in this - 5 series is very disapointing and my drive was more than 30 miles.
Also what is the use of RWD high powered chassis when most people who have them don't know how to control them. e.g I drove to Swindon one morning in falling snow (just started in Lichfield, six inches 20 miles north of Swindon - One 5 series was seen sliding off the M40 (only excuse is terrible driving since there was only just a covering), and five other BMWs in ditches (Moreton-Stow_Lechlade road). Nothing else seen having any trouble with the conditions.
It is illegal to use all the performance in good conditions and dangerous in bad conditions.
The ergonomics are terrible.
But it has that blue and white badge so they sell!
|
Very interesting and distressing facts Ian Johnson.Thanks for taking the trouble. Obviously BMW are one of a number of prestige brands which are having this sort of trouble. I was reading that the new 3 series has excellent grip and driving ability. I saw a report by a very sucessful businessman. He had lots of trouble with his Bentley and said the cheaper the cars he had in the past were the most reliable.I mentioned before that my Seat Toledo TDiSE from the end of 1999 and assembled for the Uk in Belgium by VW at that time( assembly of Toledo went back to Spain later). I have quantities of extras at no extra cost including C-CD Auto changer, heated moving mirrors,climate control,traction control,stability control, a lovely soft leather steering wheel etc etc. Pages of extras. They all still work after 142,000 miles and the car is still on it's orrigional battery, also the orrigional key fob battery and orrigional clutch.I am just saying this not to advertise present Seats,but to make a point. The car cost £17,000 when it first appeared in that nice shape at the end of 1999.
BMW have and do make incredible cars; but please remove what's troublesome and unreliable? I suppose the cost of major change inside(the outside of the 5 series is beautiful)would be astronomical;but not doing something will totally destroy the reputation of what could be an incredible car.
Also to make a point about costs: certain makes like VW and Peugeot use similar fronts on many of their cars.Not to do so would destroy the companies financially.Some of the fronts don't suit the smaller cars and suit the larger cars better.
|
|
|
But it has that blue and white badge so they sell!
>>
Some truth in that although the type of individuals who think a BMW mean they've 'made it' are not only deluded but extremely sad little people. Likewise the ergonomics of RHD BMW's have always been suspect, it just got worse with the IDRIVE piled on top
However there's also quite a lot of what I would call 'total garbage' in your comments. I'll rebutt the nonsense point by point.
"It is illegal to use all the performance in good conditions and dangerous in bad conditions."- incorrect, it's quite possible to use all the performance of even the M5 legally. How about from the lights onto a national speed limit dual carriageway? Or 2nd gear to overtake a caravan crawling at 20mph up a hill?
Furthermore I find comments like 'most people who have them don't know how to control them' annoying as well as unprovable. Your anecdotes about some numpties in Swindon and the M40 aren't evidence that BMW drivers are unable to control their vehicles. Moreover the fact that their cars are difficult to control in snow is nothing whatsoever to do with their power but actually a product of having very wide low profile tyres and therefore no grip. You don't even understand the process taking place.
Personally I don't believe anyone who had a proper test drive of a decent 5 series would regard it as inferior to a Mondeo. Simply because it isn't - so there!
I don't own one BTW, I just hate reading such ill informed drivel.
|
|
|
|
|
"Frankly the mondeo is a better car in nearly every way"
No-don't think so.
|
|
|
|
No worries - be aware of the number of steps involved in changing the clock for BST though...
1) Walk up to car, pressing remote to unlock, and open door
2) Insert key
3) Press ?start? button to activate electrical systems
4) Wait 34 seconds (I timed it?) for I-Drive to boot up
5) Press controller down to select ?Settings? menu
6) Scroll down to ?Display Settings?
7) Click to select
8) Nudge controller up to exit the last ?Display Settings? menu you were in
9) Scroll along to ?Time & Date? settings
10) Press controller down to select
11) Scroll down to ?Time?
12) Nudge controller right to the hour field
13) Scroll forward one hour
14) Press ?Menu? button to exit
15) Press ?Start? button to shut down the electrical systems
16) Push key to remove
17) Leave car and lock
Apart from that, it's perfect ;-)
Peter
|
No worries - be aware of the number of steps involved in changing the clock for BST though...
All I have to do with my Vectra is to switch the stereo on and the RDS signal auto updates the clock for me ;o)
|
|
|
4) Wait 34 seconds (I timed it?) for I-Drive to boot up
That alone is a shocking indictment. Why is that even remotely acceptable?
|
|
|
|
|
Like the idea of the voice commands but had no chance to try that out as the car I was test driving didn't speak English!
However what I did notice is that the salesman who gave me a familiarisation drive before letting me loose in his 535D weaved all over the road when he was looking over at what menu he was in. Not something I ever do when I reach over to the tuning knob of my radio..............
|
I haven't driven a 5 Series yet, though had been contemplating one (a 525d SE Auto, having discounted the 3 series) but haven't been able to find anywhere that had anything in SE spec to try nearby that hadn't already beenn sold - all M Sports apparently ("because that's what people want...").
Eventually heard so much bad press about the I-drive that I decided not to bother and, after much deliberation and procrastination, had finally decided that I was going to order an A6 Avant 2.7TDi.
Just to be sure, after a number of short drives, I still had my doubts about the MMI so I took one out for half a day. Well, I have heard that the Audi MMI was more intuitive than the BMW but it won't be an Audi A6 for me.
What a nightmare! A central MMI controller dial, with a four quadrant screen (coupled to one in the centre of the main dials), surrounded by screen quadrant switches and function buttons, placed on both the dash and surrounding the central console, using words or symbols that should be intuitive but to my simple mind aren't. Despite a great engine and gearbox, and everything else being perfect, I just couldn't get on with it - too much time spent eyes diverted from the road. My partner took on look at it and that was it...we sat on the drive with it for an hour and thought "sod this".
It may be me who is the luddite but my V70 dash is an ergonomic masterpiece. The BMW dash looks almost bare in comparison. The old A6 dash was lovely - getting into my father's old Allroad was a real pleasure after the new A6.
Horses for courses I guess - but I will now try to try a 5 series again.
|
|
Pity they make a mess out of Audi also. There will be a new Audi A 4 coming out next year. Because of the competition that should be jolly good. I think I will definitely go for a new Mercedes C Class. The system in that is apparently a simplified version of what goes in to the Mercedes S Class.
|
|
|
|
Like the idea of the voice commands but had no chance to try that out as the car I was test driving didn't speak English!
I've got the voice activation stuff in my car, which i've had for 5 years now.........and think it's a complete waste of time....gimmick really. The only time i've ever used it is on the odd occasion i want to play a particular track on a CD, so it'll go straight to it.... or to 'balance' the climate if a passenger has fiddled with it on their side, because i can't remember how to do it manually and it's irritating when you adjust it and only one side moves up or down.
|
or to 'balance' the climate if a passenger has fiddled with it on their side because i can't remember how to do it manually
Sounds like poor design, surely you just need two knobs, one for the passenger, one for driver side.
|
|
if they are balanced, when you adjust the driver's side, the passenger side adjusts as well. If a passenger adjusts their side, it changes on its' own i.e. the driver's side does not change with it. When you then adjust the driver's side again, it doesn't do the passenegr side as they are not balanced. There's obviously a way of balancing them manually, but i've not worked it out and use the voice activation to do it.
|
|
|
|
|
How long before using I-Drive is illegal on the move! Worse than a handheld phone because you take your eyes off what is going on outside the car!
|
Anyone reading about the I-drive is likely to come to the conclusion that it is a total disaster.
BMW replaced E39 with the E60 in 2003. Year on year E60 sales have easily outperformed the E39. So, whatever the vocal minority thinks of the I-drive, an increasing number of people have taken on board the concept and went on the buy the car.
|
I was passeng-ing in a mate's Terrano and we cautiously overtook a very erratically driven E60 on the M40 not long after they were launched. The driver was maroon in colour, gesticulating wildly, and wiggling the I-Drive controller so hard I thought he was going to break it off.
Gave us a good chuckle for a few miles anyway. Wonder what he was trying to do?
|
>The driver was maroon in colour, gesticulating wildly...
You're sure that was the I-drive stick in his hand?
|
I did try a basic 520d SE today. The I-drive was not bad actually. I wouldn't want to have to work loads of extras through it but it was relatively easier to work the basics (Radio, CD-changer) and the aircon etc can be worked through the basic switches - once it's set up, I suspect it's not a big issue. It booted up straight away but I could imagine it's a nightmare if it plays up - as for setting the clock, well - that's what watches are for I guess! I can't understand why people think the A6 MMI is better - that's a plethora of switches scattered all over. At least the I-drive pretty much uses one dial and easily read, menu screen - Audi will be using Windows Vista next year probably...
A faff, but I could live with it - more so than perhaps the rest of the rather cold, stark cabin, which seemed to be too basic functional, yet not very ergonomic.
|
A very sensible letter Mercian.I really don't see why it should be harder to understand than the systems put in to competitors. I was relieved with what you wrote.
I put it in twice already; but I would be grateful if people in the know would actually type in to Google search www.cartoday co.za or www.cartoday. com then scroll to near the bottom of the page and click on the little picture of the BMW 5 series. It proves they have updated in several ways, including adding the eight buttons to help simplify the I-drive.They obviously sell it a lot in South Africa. They assembled quantities of right hand drive 3 series in South Africa in the Eastern Cape, like VW and Mercedes etc etc.Toyota is always the most popular in South Africa. Their slogan out there was" Everything keeps going right Toyota". To be fair most things did go right with Toyota when I was living there. I owned VWs and did big reliable mileage when I was there.
|
|
|
|
|
