My Scenic is now 3 years old so out of warranty. I have heard all about the EGR issues and my car, although showing no signs of this, has had a life of stop/start town journeys which seem to be a factor in EGR issues.
If I decide to keep the car, I would probably want to buy a warranty. Have looked at warranty direct but unsure as to what "category" EGR's come under to check the wording. Is the problem EGR's or does it fall under another general heading?
Any help appreciated.
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Hello Bobby, There tends to be so many opt outs in warranties ( in general), its often better to put the money in the bank and use it for any repairs.
For example, a Maestro I had, on (my)inspection for valve shim adjustment, severe fissures in the metal on all the cam lobes was evident. Clearly a new camshaft and followers were needed, but the aftermarket warranty did not cover it as "it has not failed".
I was quite sure that if it had failed and wrecked the top end of the engine, there would have been another opt out clause.
You may find with some warranties that all that is really covered are " rods, block and crankshaft" As though we were back in the 1930s when they were perhaps of more concern. With no regard to the electronic potential nightmare of a modern cars engine bay.
IMHO, Its just insurance and they know how to cover their risks and make money.
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Bobby,
Define the EGR for me. I have a Warranty Direct policy (well had really on Mrs P's MINI) I still have the documentation if that helps.
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I think if the EGR valve broke into bits and the car stopped in its tracks then you might have a **chance** of a claim. Usually though, the EGR plays up due to contamination, which is very much a 'wear and tear' issue. Not much chance of a claim. My own opinion on these warranties (going back many years to when we dealt with them as traders) is that almost anything that is likely to go wrong is excluded.
I think the general trade view is that the best aftermarket warranty is the Black Horse/Car Care Plan one - but I think they are only sold through the trade - they DO include many wear and tear items.
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Pug, I think Aprilia has basically answered your question! I am not totally sure of the EGR problem (thus the reason for posting here) but from what I have read about it, it does seem to be a probable "wear and tear" item through gradual build up and eventual blockage.
I am sure HJ has an actual definition on one of the reviews or FAQs, I wiill try and find it and post here.
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Undernoted is from HJ's review of the Nissan X-Trail, although referring to specific engines, also gives a "generic" reason for these issues:
This applies to Renault 1.5DCI engines, but may explain why the diesel turbochargers fail: The EGR valve should open to allow carbon dioxide (which acts as a cooling gas) into the combustion chambers when the engine is under load (>30% boost). This allows the combustion chamber temperature to drop and thus the temperature of the exhaust gases. If it sticks in the closed position the exhaust gas temperature will rise causing a) the turbo bearings to fail and b) engine oil into the induction system. This can cause the engine to run on its crankcase oil until it is either stalled or goes bang. Problems with EGR valves are often the cause of rough running when the valve is stuck in the open position as well. In several cases turbos have blown but the EGR valve has not been replaced. Inevitably the new turbo unit will not last long.
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I've not heard of the 1.5 suffering from dieseling. Only the early F9Q 1.9 dCi engine. If you remove and clean the EGR valve occasionally then you should have no problems - dead easy to do on the 1.9.
Personally I wouldn't bother with a warranty from any company.
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I once had a policy from Warranty direct. After claiming 3 times on 3 occassions they refused.
Last one was an engine seizure following oil leak from engine. Their engineer came to inspect the engine and they decided that the car was not properly serviced and oil change was not proper. Funny thing is that I bought the policy showing them same servicing and MOT documents!
The garage who later fixed my engine told me that they have seen 99% cases Warranty Direct gets out using some obscure exclusion clauses.
Above all, if anything fails, you first need to ask a mechanic to take out the faulty part (by paying your own money). If they approve your claim (remote chance) you only then get reimbursed for the initial investigation - otherwise you're out of pocket.
If you pay of Network labour rate, their own garages are booked solid for several weeks.
In a nutshell, I never recommend Warranty Direct.
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I've not heard of the 1.5 suffering from dieseling. Only the early F9Q 1.9 dCi engine.
I would be grateful if you could explain a bit more about the "early" part.
Our Scenic uses the 1.9 F9Q lump (in 120PS guise), but it's a 2004/54 reg. Are these still prone to this problem, or was there a design change?
I bought a Haynes manual for the car, and it says there are two types of EGR system fitted to these 1.9's - one a simple solenoid setup, and the other a more sophisticated system that's plumbed in to the cooling system. It doesn't however say why the design was revised, or even which system was fitted when.
We plan to keep this car for a while, and I want to do everything possible to make sure we don't have this problem. Any advice gratefully received.
Cheers
DP
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I would be grateful if you could explain a bit more about the "early" part.
Pre June 2003.
Our Scenic uses the 1.9 F9Q lump (in 120PS guise), but it's a 2004/54 reg. Are these still prone to this problem, or was there a design change?
Design changes to the EGR, turbo oil feed pipes and ECU settings.
I bought a Haynes manual for the car, and it says there are two types of EGR system fitted to these 1.9's - one a simple solenoid setup, and the other a more sophisticated system that's plumbed in to the cooling system. It doesn't however say why the design was revised, or even which system was fitted when.
We plan to keep this car for a while, and I want to do everything possible to make sure we don't have this problem. Any advice gratefully received.
I would still be tempted to remove the EGR valve occasionally and clean it out. If you're handy with tools then it's quite easy. Three bolts hold it in place although it can be quite tight and doesn't rotate much side to side. Replace the sealing ring, available from the dealer. Keep an eye on the intercooler as well, any signs of bulging is bad news although on later ones they were reinforced. I think you can sleep well especially as yours *should* be unaffected anyway. The correct oil MUST be used in these engines and personally I recommend 9K oil changes.
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Xileno,
Many thanks - great information, and reassuring.
I couldn't agree more with you on the 9k changes. My plan is to keep to the Renault schedule but add a DIY change at midpoint between the services. 18k is a ludicrous interval for a fairly highly stressed diesel engine in my opinion. I'd even question this if it were a petrol engine.
Now the Mondeo's back together, I have a bit of time, so I'll pop the engine cover off and have a prod around. Great advice on the EGR valve as well, cheers!
DP
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Xileno, my thanks also for that information. My Scenic is a 2004 04 model so hopefully won't have the EGR issue............
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Xileno, have you a link to any pictures of how to do the EGR valve for an untrained bod like me? Where exactly is it? How do I access it etc?
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This is the 1.9dCi in the Megane. Probably very similar to the Scenic.
www.meganeownersclub.co.uk/tips.php
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Excellent Xileno, much appreciated.
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I speak from my own experience here, so I hope it's not interpreted as naming and shaming as it's not my intention.
I went out of my way before taking out a policy with WD to see if component X was covered. Very quickly, they said it was and I took out the policy on that basis. As luck would have it, X failed within the first few weeks of policy. I made a claim and the response was that as I had specifically asked about X, it must have been faulty at the time of inception, making the claim void.
I exhausted their complaints procedure (it went to Lloyds the underwriters) showing that X was not faulty weeks prior to the claim, as I had the same presenting symptom fixed by replacing Y and Z parts at a VX dealer. Also demonstrated that the recorded fault codes made no mention of a failing X.
Next step was to take legal action through the small claims court, which I decided was not a good use of my time or energy, which were in particularly short supply at the time.
If you are seeking advice, I would say stick the money which you'd be paying to WD in the bank and only touch it if you need a claim.
Again, I'm just recounting what happened to me and my intention is not to name and 'shame'.
TT
--
Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Agree with most of the posters here - don't waste your money.
All insurance is basically to provide a proft for the seller. Insurance companies are nearly always fairweather friends, who manage their 'losses'(i.e. obligations) sometimes very agressively.
NCB protection is not always worth it either; depends how they calculate your NCB as companies do this differently. Would be interested to hear of anyone who has researched what they might lose on next years policy against the cost of losing a year or 2's NCB.
So...put your mechanical breakdown insurance/warranty in the bin and put the money into savings as suggested. If you don't claim for a few years you'll be surprised what cash you have behind you.
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