In August, I'll be visiting friends near Limoges for a week.
OUTWARD:
It will just be my 11 yr old son's treat (and mine!) without the girls, so I thought it would be good to make a driving trip of it for him (the girls would want to fly). Would it be best to go via Shuttle to Calais, then drive from there, or better to put the car on a train (at Calais?) part of the way south?
I assume my TomTom will be up to the job.
RETURN:
Getting back to England I'd rather drive less so was thinking of taking the car on the train all of the way. Would this be French Motorail? Does anyone have experience of this system, and know where near Limoge (we'll actually more acurately be in Confolens) we would pick up the train for the return trip?
Thanks (I just know I'll have a lot more questions!).
Or would you just fly and have more time by the pool instead!?
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French motorail (Auto-Train) is expensive but excellent. Trouble is, I'm not sure it goes to Limoges - most destinations are the the far south. The service is scheduled so that trains leave Paris and the Channel ports in the evening and arrive in the south the following morning - my memory is of getting off in Avignon at 0700 and another time in Narbonne about 1000. The trip to Limoges isn't quite long enough for that. The list of destinations is available here, although the site is a little uncooperative. www.voyages-sncf.com/guide/autotrain/Destinations....m
I wouldn't worry, though. Depending on where you're starting in the UK, you might do best to forget Calais and take one of the western Channel ferries - we like Britanny Ferries' fast crossing from Portsmouth to Caen. (Not Cherbourg if you can avoid it - it's a long way up that peninsula!) The motorways through Normandy are fast, smooth and scenic, so driving to Limoges will hardly be an ordeal. (In stark contrast to the slog from Calais to Paris, which I've done once and wouldn't choose to do again.)
If you've not done a long motorway trip in France before, be prepared for a pleasant surprise. The rest areas vary from OK to delightful, with picnic tables, drinking water, wildlife reserves and children's playgrounds. On a 300-mile trip, it would be better to have a relief driver in the party, but take your time and you'll be fine.
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Yup
Portsmouth - Caen brittany ferries. Always use it where possible, Its an historic trip, you sail out the portsmouth dockyard onto the normandy beaches - three and a bit hours and the ship is a good one.
Driving in france is a delight.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Of course French A roads are second to none, seldom congested and passing through all sorts of nice little places where you can eat, drink or stay the night. I do see though that if you only have a week it might be better to use the motorway or put your car on the train (although I must say that for sheer pointlessness I find that very hard to beat). But if you can rip off a couple of extra days each side of yr stay in Limoges, a slow trip by A road, with boule outside the pub in the evening over a few scoops, will be far better for body and soul. Small French hotels, auberges etc., unless you are very unlucky, are twice as good as British B&Bs and about half the price.
France is still, just, a civilised country. However the main candidates in the presidential election have promised to transform it. I must say I hope they don't.
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Brive is the most northerly Motor Rail stop, and Limoge is a couple of hours to the N of Brive.
www.raileurope.co.uk/frenchmotorail/
Driving in France is a pleasure. Do stop for decent lunch, though.
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Brittany Ferries is very expensive. Travel from Calais is no problem and you easily avoid Paris.
The French are currently changing their road numbers so watch out for destinations as well as road numbers.
From Calais take the A16 (E 402) towards Abbeville and then A28 (E402) to Rouen. From Rouen join the A13 and exit at junction 19 for the N154 towards Evreux, Dreux, Chartres. This is mainly good fast dual carriageway. After going around the Chartres ring road continue on the N154 towards Orleans. This is almost all single carriageway and is the slowest part of the journey. Continue to the A10 and join at Junction 13. Follow the A10 and leave for the A71. Join the A20 near Vierzon and continue on this road to Limoges.
I use this route regularly, but from Le Havre, and you should have no problems.
Enjoy your trip. If you want any more info then come back.
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Take a look at the Via Michelin website. It will give you routes to choose from, autoroute toll details and estimated driving times. I have found the information spot on even within 10 minutes for the driving times. I expect it's about 8 hours in France - very do-able on French roads without any fuss.
If it was me from the London area I'd go Speedferries -cheapest and quick. The tunnel is an experience and maybe you should give it a go. You can always do two singles - out by boat and back by ferry.
If you have a diesel then go empty and fill up in France for 70p a litre.
I think you might want a car there so you'd need to hire if flying.
Have a good time.
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I would rather swim across the channel than pay BF prices. Alternative is LD Lines, much more basic ship but much less money.
I would do a fly-drive. Hire a cheap car in Limoges.
Oradour-Sur-Glane a must if you're into WW2 and all that.
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ooops! Edit button please. I meant go one way by boat and another by tunnel.
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yes, I take your point about BF prices but in our experience it is a better service. The food is fabulous and lots of it! Last autumn we went Portsmouth - St Malo overnight, if you want something a bit more exciting for an 11 y.o. this might fit the bill and the deserted roads south of St Malo were a joy. Might not be so in August though.
Glad someone has mentioned Speedferries, we came back using them and again the children found it very exciting and a bit different. Excellent value for money and I thought the guy riding round the dock on a mountain bike directing the loading wonderfuly informal and effective.
Fo info re motorrail and indeed anything rail related I love looking at 'seat61.com' I have found this website very additive, hours can pass while I work out routes across Canada or where ever.
Both flybe and Ryanair go into Limoges but IMHO an 11 y.o. will learn ten times more about geography and language and food and so on by overlanding it in whatever form rather than sitting in airport lounges.
Have a great time and perhaps let us know how you get on?
Papho
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The Brive-le-Gaillarde Motor-rail station is an hour south of Limoges on the (free) A20 autoroute. Confolens (lovely little place) is about an hour and a quarter west of Limoges and you pass Oradour en route.
Seems a shame to put the car on a train and miss all the real France on the way from the port, though.
As it will be August, are you going to the folk festival? If you are staying nearby get your accommodation booking done now! The festival is unmissable. Bon voyage.
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> would rather swim across the channel than pay BF prices
Thats because you look upon the ferry jopurney as a means to get there. I look on it as a part of the vacation.
As such its Portsmouth is a fabulous place to sail from and Caen is a fabulous place to arrive. Ok its not sydney harbour, but boy does the view of Calais depress me.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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check out Dunkirk in the rain for depressing entries into France.
leaving from Poole is "almost" Sydney Harbour on a sunny day.
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and Caen is a fabulous place to arrive. Ok its not sydney harbour but boy does the view of Calais depress me. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
BF don't arrive at Caen, it's Ouistreham, about four or five miles away.
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I hadn't appreciated you were going to Confolens so a better route would be from Rouen, take the A13 towards Caen and then join the A28 to Tours and then join the A10 to Poitiers and leave at junction 30 for the N10. Follow the N10 and leave for D148 Civray - Charroux and then D948 for Confolens.
It's a nice easy journey via the new A28 autoroute.
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I've travelled extensively on P+O, SeaFrance, LD and BF in the last six months, about 15 times in all.
LD is pretty grim, despite the upgrade last Nov to the ship. Food is barely edible, loos etc are average at best.
SeaFrance is variable. One ship is pretty grim, though the food is OK. The two newer ones are fine. All P+O and BF are very good, BF particularly so. BF is expensive, and when on my own I find them to be poor value - with family it's less of a problem.
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Poitiers was a dump when I went there, but Futuroscope is well worth a visit. Mind you, I was 16 and spent most of the time in a French bar so don't take my word for it!
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BF don't arrive at Caen it's Ouistreham about four or five miles away.
I was aware of that - I have done it about 10 times, but the service is not called Portsmouth - Ouisterham now is it?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"Caen"
Mmmm Family PU are not welcomed in Caen after a rather ugly airborne incident in 1944 involving a family member....
Personally I would cross the Calais and depart along one of the many Autoroutes out, to me driving or being driven in France is part of the 'oliday and well worth lingering down it's N routes and stopping here and there, the train is equally enjoyable as part of the holiday but the roads are so good.....
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Thats ok PU, a member of the TVM family took rather longer than expected to get from the beach near Ouisterham to the centre of Caen. As Robbie said its only 4 or 5 miles, but it was slow going. Like commuting to london the last mile was the worse.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I was aware of that - I have done it about 10 times but the service is not called Portsmouth - Ouisterham now is it? ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
No it isn't, but you did say "Caen is a fabulous place to arrive." I don't think so. The perephique is a nightmare.
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Agree with Robbie,
using the N154 from Rouen is my prefered route to avoid Paris to travel South West in France
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Going through Rouen to avoid Caen is a bit like - oh, I don't know...something very silly indeed. Just don't do it. You will get lost. You will think you've worked out where you are. You will get lost again. You will wish you'd stayed at home. You will think your navigator is holding the map upside down because you keep coming back to the same junction where you have to make a near-suicidal left turn into heavy traffic on a steep hill. Your navigator will offer to drive if you think you can do any better. You will accept but you will do just as badly; you will get lost yet again and now it'll be getting dark. You will eventually find your hotel or way out by accident and have no idea how you got there.
Then you will try again the next year, thinking you must have made an elementary mistake and it can't possibly be as bad this time. And it will be WORSE!
Trust me, make a note of your exit number and onward destination (probably Alencon or Le Mans in your case) and the Caen ring road holds no fear for you.
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I have done the caen ring road about 20 times. Apart from the odd junctions tightly placed to gether with short notice sighnage, its a complete doddle
40 minutes off the boat and you are on the main roads west south and east of Caen.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"Trust me, make a note of your onward destination (probably Alencon or Le Mans in your case) and the Caen ring road holds no fear for you. "
And doing the same in Rouen is even easier
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Phil
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"Your navigator will offer to drive if you think you can do any better"
Brilliant Post WDB. ! The above is on the next TomTom upgrade !
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I never have any probs in Rouen but I have done it for many many years. I now use a satnav (Co Pilot) so its even easier. Follow the A28 and N28 (Rocade Nord-Est) until you cross the river.
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Going through Rouen to avoid Caen is a bit like - oh I don't know...something very silly indeed. Just don't do it. You will get lost.
How did you arrive at this? I can't see any post suggesting that the OP goes through Rouen to avoid Caen.
If you read carefully, routes were given from Calais via Rouen to avoid Paris.
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>>On a 300-mile trip, it would be better to have a relief driver in the party, but take your time and you'll be fine.
4 hours drive and you need a relief driver?
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We do the journey down to SW France about five times a year.
Speedferries are the cheapest, very quick and so far faultless. If you've got SatNav and can avoid Paris in the rush hour, it pays to bite the bullet and go straight through. You'll save on time and tolls, and it really isn't that scary.
To Limoges should be fine in a day. I tend to do the trip in one hit. To our place in the SW is about 11 hours, but the autoroutes and services are so good SWMBO has the day off and I drive the lot.
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If you are doing a road trip, it seems pointless to consider putting the car on a train.
Our kids love the tunnel and it is also quick and unaffected by weather (but can still have delays, obviously). The one thing that surprised me last week was how effective the campaigns to reduce speeding on the autoroutes have been - we saw no French cars doing more than 85 mph, and the one car that did fly past at circa 95 mph (an English Mondeo estate) was promptly pulled over by the gendarmes. Beware!
But for a road trip, you should dive off the Autoroutes if you have the time.
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Stopped overnight in Limoges last summer enroute to the Dordogne. We went Hull-Zeebrugge as I hate driving down to the South Coast from the North East. Even travelling from Zeebrugge, and going around Paris (the only slow bit), the journey was easy and comfortable in a day.
Agree with earlier comments re. Oradour sur Glane - a must to visit.>> If you are doing a road trip it seems pointless to
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"Agree with earlier comments re. Oradour sur Glane "
Be prepared though - it's a real tear-jerker, but obviously a very valuable experience in the right circumstances.
Futuroscope is much more fun for an 11-year-old if you are doing a "fun" holiday
But then perhaps both visits would provide a good, balanced, educational and fun experience
www.oradour.info/
www.scrapbookpages.com/Oradour-sur-Glane/index.html
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FRoradour.htm
www.futuroscope.com/eng/index.php
Whatever you do, hope you enjoy France
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Phil
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Robbie commented earlier:
How did you arrive at this? I can't see any post suggesting that the OP goes through Rouen to avoid Caen. If you read carefully, routes were given from Calais via Rouen to avoid Paris.
And yes, I know that there was no one post suggesting that; my post was intended humorously - although it is firmly based on fact, from the two years we used Dieppe as a port of entry and had to negotiate Rouen in fading light and heavy vendredi soir traffic. The main road goes right through the city centre, and where it runs along the river and the railway lines, the unhelpful signs and sudden lane changes mean it's a tough drive, even for an driver used to French roads and with an excellent co-pilot like Mrs B. For a first-timer with an 11-year-old for company, it would be no fun at all and just might put him off the whole idea, which would be a pity.
Part of my thinking is that the western Channel routes are unjustly criticized by the Tunnelophiles. The Tunnel may be fine for those based in the Southeast, but for those of us who aren't, and who favour the western half of France, it can add 200-300 miles to each leg of the journey, and not on roads that are a pleasure to travel. Getting to the ferry port at Portsmouth is easy enough, the fast Brittany Ferries boats are clean, comfortable and surprisingly smooth and quiet considering how quick they are, and while the whole ferry experience may not be the highlight of the holiday, I'd certainly prefer it to slogging all the way across to Folkestone and all the way back.
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As ever, I'm overwhelmed by the generosity of those willing to take time out to help here.
I'm leaning toward taking the SpeedFerry to Caen from Portsmouth, as that will still give us the chance of a longish drive to Confolens but not quite such a long drive.
We could take our time on the drive, savour some quieter (less main) roads and have a stop over on the way there and back. Next thing is to find a picturesque route from Caen to Confolens, and (maybe, or maybe not) decide where to stop over en-route.
I can already smell the croissants and coffee.
Just starting the Michel Thomas French cassette course LOL!
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Obviously, my humour tank needs topping up;)
I agree about the Western Channel. I always travel from Portsmouth and I've started using LD Lines rather than BF whose fares are extortionate. I live in the north west and won't go near the dreaded M1 and M25.
The Normandy Spirit isn't a bad boat, although not quite as nice as BF's. The difference in fare is certainly not justified. I travel overnight from Portsmouth, and the cabins are as good as BF's, and Le Havre is far better for getting to south west France than Caen.
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>The Normandy Spirit isn't a bad boat
Perhaps not, but I'm assuming you've never tried the food? I've travelled back on her, and both times the meal was poor to say the least. Even since the refit last Nov the passenger lounges etc are dire, and as she was designed for the Calais crossing, she's quite unpleasant for a 6-7 hours crossing.
The Portuguese crew are OK, but not a touch on some of the BF lady sailors....
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I've used LD Lines several times since P&O pulled out from the Portsmouth to LH route.
No the ship isn't as good as the BF ones, never mind the P&O ships. It's a budget outfit and it costs about half the money to cross.
I found the food adequate. I had a plate of various bits and pieces from the cold table and my business colleague had a chilli which he said was fine. I always pay a bit more to get a reserved reclining seat in the 'Cotton Club' lounge for the return journey.
The ship does seem to roll a bit more in rough seas compared to the BF and P&O ships.
If you view the ferry crossing as part of the holiday then you may be best with BF and all its glitzy entertainments and boutiques etc. Personally I rather spend the money saved (and it can be considerable) on other things.
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Perhaps not, but I'm assuming you've never tried the food?
The full English breakfast was excellent. Plenty to eat and nicely cooked. Far better than B.F.'s continental fare on plastic plates - that was the only eating place open. Dinner on the return wasn't bad either -not exactly gourmet, but eatable. The chips were hot and the beef was tender.
The crossing was fine and by no means unpleasant. I pay extra for the Club Class lounge and find it quite comfortable. Free Internet access as well.
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I must have been there on a bad day - the pork casserole I had was made with a very cheap cut of very chewy meat that I won't forget in a long time. I've only travelled LD inbound to the UK, so not had the breakfast.
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It's a pity that LD Lines have only one boat. The arrival at Portsmouth is very late when you have a few hundred miles to cover.
I'll be travelling with them again in a few weeks and I hope the full English is as good as last time.
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