I got pulled up in Tottenham the other day for no insurance. Before you all get out of your prams, I have got insurance, but the police computer say no.
Anyway, they asked if I had my licence on me, which I didn't. According to the coppers it should always be carried, and it's a popular misconception to think otherwise. Is this true?
They also reckoned the car is registered to an address in Wales, but then decided they'd go that part wrong (suspect they got the bit about insurance details wrong as well, as they didn't want to take things further.) Lets hope things get sorted out before the introduction of ID cards.
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I always carry mine, but don't think you actually have to.
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You are supposed to have it with you, but it's an acceptable defence if you produce it on request at a Police station.
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Yes and No is the answer. In law you should produce your licence when required by a Constabule, if you are unable to do so you have seven days to do so a a Police Station specified etc. The law implies that you should carry it in not so may words. Driver Records can be interrogated in real time via PNC
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It isn't going to be a legal requirement to carry our poxy ID cards, if they are ever issued and if I can be bothered to have one, so I can't see that carrying a driving licence is likely to be a legal requirement. I defer to the coments of PU and DVD on this, as always.
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It is not an offence to not carry it with you, or your insurance or MOT (if the car needs one) but you have to produce them at a police station (of YOUR choice) within 7 days otherwise you are committing an offence.
These days they 'know' from the computer ( HA HA!) wether you are the keeper, licenced, insured, taxed, MOTed before they get out of their car, you only have to prove who you are!
Oh what fun I have telling them that I am not the owner of my car (they always seem to ask 'are you the owner' or 'is this your car' ) and factually the car belongs to the HP company until paid for but I am the registered keeper!
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Well don't wind them ffidrac a sure way to a ticket ! Bit vague on these ID things, seems it was a fudge (no change there then) that you don't actually have ot carry it with you.
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If you are stopped by the police for an alleged offence (such as speeding), legal advice usually advises not to produce your license at that time.
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Why not ?
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.. Do you have to carry Driving Licence? - Dave N ..
just look at this:
section 164 and 165 of Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52)
www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_8....m
Power of constables to require production of driving licence and in certain cases statement of date of birth....
Power of constables to obtain names and addresses of drivers and others, and to require production of evidence of insurance or security and test certificates...
and note how police are asked to implement it:
www.kent.police.uk/About%20Kent%20Police/Policy/p/...l
....
4.5.Reasonable grounds to believe a driver is uninsured or unlicensed, are more than mere suspicion. Where a driver is unable to produce insurance or driving licence or it is unclear whether such documentation exists, the Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), Police National Computer (PNC) and or Motor insurance database must be searched for the information required (refer to policy N29).
4.6.If a record is not found on the database it must not be automatically assumed that the driver does not hold correct documentation. Appropriate questioning of the driver and other investigative options must take place before seizure is considered (See Appendix 1 ? Check List). If reasonable grounds cannot be made out then the seizure procedure is not an option. A notebook entry of the grounds should be recorded.
5. POWER TO SEIZE A VEHICLE
5.1.Section 165A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 allows a constable to seize a vehicle only if certain conditions are satisfied.
5.2.Driving Unlicensed
5.2.1.The first condition is that the constable is in uniform and that under Section 164 he has required a person to produce his licence and its counterpart for examination. The person has failed to produce his licence and its counterpart and the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the motor vehicle is or was being driven in contravention of Section 87 subsection 1 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
5.3.Driving uninsured
5.3.1.The second condition is that the constable in uniform has required a person to produce evidence that a motor vehicle is not or was not being driven in contravention of Section 143 and the person has failed to produce such evidence and the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the vehicle is or was being so driven. ..
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p.s. the "(See Appendix 1 ? Check List)" comment referred to above states:
18. APPENDIX 1 CHECKLIST
18.1.Checklist:
Check cover (Even if PNC states ?Insurance Held?, does it cover that driver?)
Is offence Actual or Technical (i.e. Business use on SD & P cover)
Does suspect admit insurance offence?
Has confirmation been received from insurance company?
Does PNC show details of any licence?
Does suspect admit driving licence offence?
Can another occupant legally drive vehicle away?
Offence file begun or Fixed Penalty Notice issued?
Vehicle VIN checked on PNC?
If vehicle has no identification marks (i.e. a mini moto) securely place a numbered property tag in a visible location.
Human Rights ? Duty of Care/Proportionate/Measured (JAPAN)
Advise occupants re personal property
Seizure Notice served?
If HO/RT1 issued ? ensure ?Off. Rpt? box is ticked
Driver advised to notify owner?
Storm Reference obtained?
PNC Updated with ?Police Interest? & ?Removed? reports?
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So that, if it has points on it, they can't decide you have been very naughty and throw the book at you! If you turn up at a plod shop with a producer it will merely be noted that you have produced a valid licence. There used to be an urban myth that, when licences were a small red book you could show the officer the bit which said you were entitled to drive but hold it open at that page and not give it to him to leaf thru. In this way, if you had points he couldn't see them! Of course in these days of 101% accurate computers thay would know whether you had points or not before they got out of their car wouldn't they?
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Most police forces' websites contain the following information:
www.hampshire.police.uk/Internet/faq/drivingdocume...m
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Police have no power to check points - only when considering the issue f an Endorsable FP notice to ensure that the 3 points (or more)_ don't take you into the realms of disqualification under totting up. That's one of the reasonswhy there are two parts to a photo Licence. Points - as far as I am aware - don't appear on the PNC in respect of DVLA driver details. Maybe one of the boys in blue will confirm.
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Dalglish says
5.2.1.The first condition is that the constable is in uniform and that under Section 164 he has required a person to produce his licence and its counterpart for examination.
My point/question is, can the counterpart be shown, so that elegibility to drive can be confirmed, but not handed over so that points can be confirmed?
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The police could have all the power in the world but if you ain't got it with you you ain't got it with you.
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The Section requires that both Licence and Counterpart have to be produced on request.
Simply flashing a Licence a Licence at a Police Officer or waving it under his nose does not discharge the requirement under Section 164 RTA 88. Bear in mind the Section mentions the production necessary so that Officer can ascertian certian details i.e. name and address, etc etc.
dvd
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I used to carry mine at all times until my wallet was stolen at work. After I found out what a problem it was to get everything replaced I have only carried the bare minimum of items in my wallet.
--
L\'escargot.
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I have been told that if you have all your documents on you,you are more likely just to get a verbal warning for any offence.
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If you are pulled for speeding and produce a licence with 6 points on it, for speeding, I don't fancy your chances of getting a caution!
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Les (MR Brian) said:
I have only carried the bare minimum of items in my wallet.
On a purely practical note it is always advisable to carry some form of ID on you when driving and elsewhere as a mater of fact.
The number of times I have pulled docs from a dead body that has helped to get information to assist rapid ID and get information to relatives pdq............
dvd
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How do these regulations/guidelines apply to foreign registered vehicles?
As Mrs Barchetta is currently in the UK with our German-registered car, what should she legally have on her?
Because of the logistical nightmare of losing/having documents pinched, I have made up a folder of colour photocopies of insurance, fahrzeugschein, fahrzeugbrief, driving license etc that stays in the car, and hope that common sense would apply in the event of the BiB pulling her for speeding (highly likely). Or *must* she have originals at all times?
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Certainly a UK registered car 'must' have the original V5 carries while abroad.
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As Mrs Barchetta is currently in the UK with our German-registered
Is she German (or fluent in German)? if so, she should just speak to German to the officer that stops her - unless she's *extremely* unlucky the officer will just shrug and walk away. I've seen it happen (with a Finnish person).
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I have only carried the bare minimum of items in my wallet. On a purely practical note it is always advisable to carry some form of ID on you when driving and elsewhere as a mater of fact.
In my wallet I carry identification (which includes next-of-kin, medical information such as allergies to drugs, and an organ donor card), a debit card and money. That's all.
--
L\'escargot.
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In your mobile phone I am sure that you have your wife/husband/partner's phone number. Instead of putting "Mildred 01234 567890" you should put "Mildred (Wife) 01234 567890" or similar. In the event that you are in need yet incapacitated, someone will hunt through your phone to see what numbers you have. If they find one which clearly identifies who to contact in the event of an emergency, then everybody's life will be easier.
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Some people already use ICE = In Case of Emergency for this
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Well if I find you unconcious in the street and I find your mobile phone and I am in need of a car stereo, then I guess I might call that number.
8-)
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..someone will hunt through your phone to see what numbers you have ..
supposedly "official" advice is:
www.eastanglianambulance.com/content/news/newsdeta...3
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4674331.stm
Users are being urged to enter a number in their phone's memory under the heading ICE - In Case of Emergency.
Paramedics or police would then be able to use it to contact a relative.
The idea is the brainchild of East Anglian Ambulance Service paramedic Bob Brotchie and was launched in May.
and a commercial service offering that service - www.icecontact.com/
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If it's your home number, why not store it as 'Home'? That's what I do, anyway.
Good idea for mobile number though.
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If you are Scottish based and driving in England, and presumably vice versa, you should take your driving documents with you as, I believe, you cannot name a Scottish police station as your producing office and would, of necessity, have to travel back to an English police office to produce your documents.
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Not as far as I am aware John24
Road Traffic Axct 1988 applies to Scotland.
dvd
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Due to the paramilitary involvement and rise of 'Tiger Kidnapping' here in N.I., some truckers and / or those carrying other high-value goods are advised not to carry their licence with them.
If they're grabbed, then it's an easy way of exercising leverage on them (presuming the criminals haven't already done their homework...)
AA
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