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As the title suggests, this thread is for all things Formula One and other general motorsport related stuff.
This is Volume 8.
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From today's Guardian: football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,20170...l
>>> Small ad may be formula one's smoking gun <<<
Towards the back of this month's Motor Sport magazine a company based in America announces the sale of a Benetton B194 formula one car, the very machine with which Michael Schumacher won three grands prix on his way to the 1994 world championship, running Damon Hill off the road in the final round at Adelaide in order to secure the title.
Clearly the dents from that notorious encounter have been straightened out but the car is otherwise advertised as being in original condition - "exactly as 'in the day'," to quote the ad, a statement reflected in the asking price of just under half a million quid.
What is really interesting, however, is the information that the originality of the car's condition extends to certain electronic features - specifically including traction control, a "driver aid" outlawed under the 1994 regulations.
This, it may be remembered, was the season when there was a lot of fuss over whether Benetton were breaking the technical regulations in order to achieve a competitive advantage. Ayrton Senna, who perished in the third race of the season while trying to stay ahead of Schumacher, certainly believed something naughty was going on. And here, all these years later, is grand prix racing's equivalent of the smoking gun. Is it too late for Hill to demand his title back?
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Clearly the dents from that notorious encounter have been straightened out....
I didn't think carbon fibre dented? More sort of what an egg shell does when it gets hit.
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I seem to remember Benetton and Schumacher getting found out about having TC on that car. He was banned for 2 races due a hidden menu being found in the programming of the steering wheel. If this car was from before this ban then it may still be on there. It was a long time ago though so might be wrong.....
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Allegedly (Autosport at the time) .... he had a hidden "launch control" programme which you could access by pushing the steering wheel keys in a certain order.
Benetton claimed it was for testing. Forum members can decide for themselves how useful such a programme would be in testing.
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The best - and free - motoring related day out of 2006 was the F1 tesing session at Silverstone.
6 hours of the major teams and drivers preparing for the British GP.
This year - 19th - 21st June - I see they have the nerve to charge £10 pp.
Still a bargain :-))
Steve
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I am attending this year, and have my tickets for paddock transfer and pit lane walkabouts
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I am attending this year, and have my tickets for paddock transfer and pit lane walkabouts ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Any going spare....?? :-)
Steve
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Intersting!
Yamaha have announced that FIAT will be the title sponsor of their MotoGP team in 2007, the Rossi connection must be a driver in Fiat's home market however I had considered that Ducati were affliated to Fiat, certainly Ferrari (owned by Fiat) and Ducati were sharing technology.
www.motogp.com/en/motogp/motogp_news.htm?menu=news...=
19026&championship_id=3§ion=1
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Yamaha and Italy seem to be doing very well together.
The Yamaha World SuperBike (WSB) team is based in Italy (Yamaha Italia logos everywhere), and the R1 looks to be the most 'Italian' inspired bike from the big 4.
I think Alfa Romeo must also have a stake in the WSB series.
Are we now going to see lots of Puntos with the number 46 on them ?
This is probalby another excellent opportunity for me to praise James Toseland's success in the Phillip Island races last weekend - beating Bayliss on home territory was good going indeed.
I though Ducati had US backers ?
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and the R1 looks to be the most 'Italian' inspired bike from the big 4.
Rather Ducatis inspired by Yamahas! The Ducati 1098 designer quoted four bikes as being influencial, the 916 (clearly) and the 2006 Yamaha R1 and R6 along with the 1999 R7, the latter for the way the lower fairing integrates with the rest of the bike.
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>>Rather Ducatis inspired by Yamahas! The Ducati 1098 designer quoted four bikes as being influencial, the 916 (clearly) and the 2006 Yamaha R1 and R6 along with the 1999 R7, the latter for the way the lower fairing integrates with the rest of the bike.<<
Yes, I would agree for the 1098 - a much better looking bike than the 999.
But I think the R1 (in particular) has had an Italian influence for some time - especially when they first went to the underseat exhausts; was that the 2002 model ?
WSB doesn't appear to have suffered too much with the withdrawal of tobacco money - so I hope that other sponsors will continue to indulge the bike teams - and that we get more bike racing on terrestial TV
On the subject of Italian design, the new Alfa Spider has to be the first car I've liked the look of for some years (I didn't like the Brera). Shouldn't it be a spyder though ?
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But I think the R1 (in particular) has had an Italian influence for some time - especially when they first went to the underseat exhausts; was that the 2002 model ?
2004 IIRC
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First race of the season from Qatar, bikes now 800cc rather than 990cc though already faster than last year.
Rossi is on pole on the Yamaha though Casey Stoner is only 0.005 sec behind on the Ducati, the Ducati's are very fast in a straight line, Edwards is third on the other works Yamaha so they are showing form.
Great live timing on the official website: www.motogp.com/en/motogp/index.htm
Could be a classic season!
{This posting will be moved to the F1 & motorsport thread at some point - DD}
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Good race! I cannot believe how quick that Ducati is in a straight line!! 20,000 RPM to play with apparently. Wow!
Rossi rode a cracking race, but all credit to Stoner for hanging in there and keeping his head. He deserved the win.
What happened to Edwards?!?!
Cheers
DP
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>>>> how quick that Ducati is in a straight line!! 20,000 RPM to play with apparently. Wow!>>>>
It seems that motorbike engine design is some way ahead of cars, when you reckon that the Ducati engine is an 800 c.c. V8 with desmodromic valve gear that can rev to 20k r.p.m., - there would appear to be much scope for car engine designers to close the gap.
There is obviously great merit in the desmodromic valve gear design, but would the cost of putting this technology into mass engine car production be prohibitive.???
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Good start to the season although I would have liked to see some of the rest of the field rather than a hefty dose of Rossi and Stoner swapping the lead. My, that Ducati looked good powering past the Yamaha on the straights!
More, please ...
:-)
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Kenny Roberts Jnr deserves an award for either bloodminded persistance or for flogging a dead horse. Since his world championship year (2000?) he has done absolutely nothing. He has been so far off the pace in fact, that memories of him as a champion have almost gone in most peoples minds and he has turned himself into a bit of a joke.
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I did like the telemetry from Hopkins' suzuki - showing lean angle. More than 60degrees of lean and hanging off the bike - a good ride from Hopkins and I hope Suzuki do better with the 800 than they did with the 990s.
Hayden didn't do so well either.
I think Stoner and Pedrosa could have a good season's racing.
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The commentators mentioned gearing as a reason for the difference in top speed between the Yamaha and Ducati, aero is also surely a factor however while the Ducatis had been quick in a striaght line all weekend the difference was more marked in the race, perhaps the headwind on the stright was less so the Yam hit the limiter, or more and the Yam was over geared in top. The power difference cannot be significant because acceleration at lower speeds was comparable, in fact Rossi commented on the Yamaha's initial acceleration as being very strong.
Reminds me of WSB in around 2000 at the old Hockenhiem when Haga was on the 750cc Yamaha and Edwards could drift past him on the 1000cc Honda at the end of the straights though could not stay with him for the rest of the lap.
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Two points spring to mind on the Ducati's speed on the straight :
1) Both Stoner and Pedrosa are physically small and fit behind the screen better than most MotoGP riders - I'm not sure this would cause the dramatic speed difference though. Rossi's not exactly big.
2) The commentators also mentioned that Ducati were thought to be most at risk from the reduced fuel allowance - perhaps they allowed a higher rev limit and took a risk on the fuel consumption ?
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Fourth on the grid in his first race.
The guy is a genuine racer and knows how to win, what price a podium in his first GP? It's going to be a lot tougher mixing it with the big boys, but I don't think he will have to wait as long as Jensen Button to claim the top step of the podium.
Q2, how the hell do I avoid every news bullitin tomorrow and resist the urge to teletext till the race is re-shown?
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Q2, how the hell do I avoid every news bullitin tomorrow and resist the urge to teletext till the race is re-shown? I record it and then get up early and watch it, having, of course, switched the alarm to bell rather than radio.
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Q2, how the hell do I avoid every news bullitin tomorrow and resist the urge to teletext till the race is re-shown?
Record it, then watch it when you get up in the morning. You'll be able to FF through all the adverts as well ;o)
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You're both assuming knowledge of how to set the video to record. I never use it and haven't got a clue, and waking SWMBO to do it for me would not be a good idea, believe me.
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>>I don't think he will have to wait as long as Jensen Button to claim the top step of the podium.<<
Jenesn who ???
Having seen the, race Lewis showed a very high level of maturity and competence - something I have never seen in Jensen. The Hamilton lad is very down to earth and providing he does not get his head all mixed up like Jensen has - then he really has the potential to be the next UK world champion.
I'm afraid Jensen just does not cut it for me.
He has a very smooth driving style and obviously needs a good car which he is lacking again but at the end of the day I think Flavio Briatore saw Jensen for what he is a long time ago - and I do not see all the top teams lining up to try and sign him. I think Button is over-rated, especially by the British media.
If Honda do not deliver the goods, he has made himself very difficult to sign as teams will just not trust him after the Williams fiasco so his chances of future glory are limited.
Sorry but I think our UK world champion hopes lay with Lewis Hamilton and him alone.
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Watched it live last night, drink in hand, bit of smoked sausage to prevent hunger.
Trouble was, the preliminary shouting and hooting sent me to sleep just before the start, and I came to just as the three winners lined up on the podium.
Now I can't be bothered to watch the race. Damn!
Perhaps I just don't care any more.
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It was not an exciting race.
Raikonen, Hamilton and Alonso all in front from start to finish - Raikonen by a long way all the way.
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Thank you - at last some one who agrees with me!
I think that Jenson Button is over rated as a driver - mainly by ITV F1 crew who think he can do no wrong. Just because he won a race last year, doesn't mean he's any better than he was when he joined Williams all those years ago.
I'm glad Lewis Hamilton is here now - I too believe he has what it takes to become a true winner - and I think that Ron Dennis is the right person to keep him focussed on that (as well as his own father who seemed so proud on the grid!)
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Bound to agree on Button. While he did well to win in Hungary it would be nice to see him win a race not randomised by rain or safety cars. He shows no sign of being a team player either - always the Royal 'we', and I've never noticed a mention of his team mate. Perhaps Barrichello, who never seemed consistently to get on top of the Honda last year, will show Button the way in 2007 - he did a decent job in the circs today.
Raikonnen must be a nightmare for the marketing people - unlike Hamilton who shows every sign that it is possible to show, after one race, of being the complete article.
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Ron's comment about him being "competent without being arrogant" sums him up for me.
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A great drive from Hamilton. He seems level headed enough and he has a good mentor in Ron Dennis, both of which he will need when the tabloids attempt to destroy him. They've already bugun testing the water with the way they reported his recent prang, something every driver does many times during their career.
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>Ron's comment about him being "competent without being arrogant" sums him up for me.
It seems to me he is a carefully manufactured article, with all the charisma of a plastic chair. He may well win, but in no way is he going to excite the crowds.
Mind I thought Raikonen had the charisma of an Ikea table till the "gone for merde" comment last year during the shumacher swooning
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Who's to say you won't be proved right on Hamilton TVM? For now though I'll disagree and predict that he'll be more entertaining than most having seen his start today which would have been stunning whoever had been driving. I don't think you can manufacture GP drivers like boy bands :-)
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Young Lewis Hamilton is going to need all his alleged cool to survive the onslaught of media syrup. Sent a lot of promising sportsmen off the rails, that.
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>Ron's comment about him being "competent without being arrogant" sums him up for me. It seems to me he is a carefully manufactured article, with all the charisma of a plastic chair. He may well win, but in no way is he going to excite the crowds. Mind I thought Raikonen had the charisma of an Ikea table till the "gone for merde" comment last year during the shumacher swooning
Have you met young Lewis,spoken to him?,obviously not. I have on a number of occasions over the years.Of the dozens of drivers I have dealt with over the years he is without doubt the nicest and most down to earth.I cant believe the tripe that some people come out with about people they have never met.
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> he is without doubt the nicest and most down to earth
exactly, the charisma of a plastic chair. YOu forget, this is show business. Nice and down to earth dont sell tickets.
Rough, tough, cunning, rogueish, exciting, dashing, ruthless all tinged with a fair degree of arrogance.
That sells tickets in F1.
He is as manufactured as the cars on show overlooking the lake at woking, where by the way he (as a package as early as 1996) was conceived.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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He has plenty of charisma,unlike quite a few other F1 drivers I have worked with.As for being manufactured?-no its called nurturing talent and skill,making sure he doesn't make the same mistakes that other potential stars have made,only to see their careers ruined.He is a nice,decent bloke but tough at the same time. He has the talent to be world champion.You should get to know the facts not the fiction.
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you forget my old son, I pay his wages. I am the audience. If me, and people like me are not watching - he gets no drive,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/64...m
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IMHO,The problem with F1 is that its not the best really, not the best that is `possible`
Its the best that is `possible` within a framework of highly restrictive rules, but not in an absolute sense.
Nothing `really` different ( on a big scale) engine specs frozen, an engine failure in one race ruining the next.
The early years of the last century must have been fantastic to watch, giant cars and engines, later, rear engined cars challenging and dominating, then turbo`s......
It seems now that its all so regulated, ALL v8, no chance of anyone doing something fantastic such as bringing a 12 cylinder blown Honda to the next race.........
Its a v8 and its frozen, rev limited, where is the sport in that? Its just a money machine, I don`t know why I still watch it.
I mean, anyone remember the 6 wheel Tyrell being wheeled out? Now they freak out if a wing flexes a bit, might as well forget it and just race a grid of standard Toyota Aygo`s off the production line.
Regards
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with you OM.
F1 should be the pinicle of automotive engineering, cutting edge, new fresh ideas and all in all just a little bit dangerous.
This from the young man awe struck by the new 1600cc turbos with the completely different sound, alternating with the amused young man when they expired in a cloud of flame and oil.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Read today the reason for Raikonnen's cakwalk on Sunday: one of the McLaren head honcos was seen having a heated discussion with ferrari supremo Jean Todt about an alleged flexible flooring system on the red car that is supposed to give it some sort of performance advantage. Apparently, BMW employ a similar system, which may explain why they've shot up grid. McLaren have stated they'll say no more until they see what hapens in the next couple of races.
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Not quite as clear as that. Its been used since last year, has passed every scrutineering check done on it. Besides, according to.....
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57511
the other teams floors are just as liable to "flex" anyway.
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Its sad though really isnt it? Here we are waiting for the next race and the major tech interest is whether the floor is flexing a little :)
If only we could go back in time and see the supercharged Bentleys starting to take on the larger engined continental cars.
You can just imagine it..... car 1 is disqualified as its running boards flex too much on the straight....
A sad indication of modern times, current F1, IMHO
Looking forwards 10 years, The engine design is frozen and rev limited (as today) now also the aero is frozen and a standard ECU, engine, bodyshell and chassis is supplied along with identical tyres to all teams.
Teams still can modify the cars seat and the position of the warning lights on the ( standard) steering wheel.
Race results 2017,
Ferrari were stripped of points in the 2017 Melbourne race due to running a car with 1mm less than standard seat padding......
Really? well it only a small step for Formula 1 to get to that when contrasted with how liberated technical innovation was in the past.
Regards
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A sad indication of modern times, current F1, IMHO
Yup, I couldn't agree with you more.
Does anyone honestly still watch it? I lost interest a long time ago when I finally worked out that the driver actually has very little to do with success any more. Stick Schumacher in a midfield car and he'd have finished midfield. Stick the likes of Webber in a Renault and he'd be a title contender.
Even without that, surely any form of motorsport in which overtaking is a rarity is, to my mind at least, completely pointless.
This comes from a serial British GP weekender from 1990 - 2000. I hate what this "sport" has become. Flash cash, petty squabbling and backstabbing against a background of dull, predictable racing.
Cheers
DP
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Does anyone else agree with me in thinking that Lewis Hamilton was excellent in the Grand Prix today. His offensive driving at the start making him 2 places on the track followed by his brilliant defensive driving against both Ferraris was a lesson to much more experienced drivers.
It is so refreshing having a level headed & down to earth young Brit at the forefront of F1 again after the recent debacle that is Jesson Button with his Contract mis-hap and constant moaning about his car & team.
He seems to be enjoying himself and hopefully both Ron and Mr Hamilton will keep the lad's head straight.
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moaning about his car & team
I think Rubens was doing most of the moaning. The honda does appear to be a tad off the pace.
And hamilton should have allowed Raikonen a sniff of an overtaking chance, then chopped him off hard, very hard indeed possibly even breaking a suspension part on the finns car - such are reputations born and maintained.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Good to see Ron Dennis without that leather jacket for a change. I thought it had welded itself to him.
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Perhaps Honda should change their slogan of "The power of dreams" to
`Honda, The power *in* dreams`.
I just can`t believe they let it get like this. Hope Ross Braun doens`t go there and get caught up in that corporate model of racing, it would be a real waste of his talents IMHO
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Lost interest during qualifying again. The Bahrein circuit is magnificent but a bit boring.
I wish people would shut up about Lewis Hamilton though. Can't help feeling they want to promote him into making a mistake or two so they can say: 'Yah, boo, sucks, he isn't coated with Teflon after all and may actually not be all that nice when in a temper...'
Leave the guy alone.
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Once the tabloids take an interest in someone, it is only a matter of time before they decide to give him the thumbs down and throw him to the lions.
Tomorrows race will be worth watching for the first corner. Hamilton likes to have a go and Massi will have last week fresh in his mind.
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I too am starting to get sick and tired of the Lewis Hamilton Show that is being forced into my front room when I want to watch F1. There are 21 other drivers but as per usual ITV focus on 1 and squeeze the life out of it. Only thing that has really come out of it is the Button show has finished at last....
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Good race at Bahrein. Circuit didn't seem so boring in the race. Nice to see Coulthard going for it and slicing through again.
Still worried about Hamilton though. Felipe Massa in the post-race interview seemed, rather unattractively, still to be smarting over press flak he has been getting. They shouldn't read that stuff.
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Apparently ITV will be showing BTCC at Rockingham live next Sunday at 4.00pm.
Not quite HJ. It's actually being shown on ITV3.
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Has he won two championships because he has had the best car and a (relatively) second rate team mate? And now he has a team mate that is his match he is being made to look ordinary. I am not sure, just surmising?
And how good is the McLaren, is Lewis getting the best out of it or if Raik was still at Woking would he have blitzed the lot of 'em, or is the Ferrari the faster package and Massa had something up his sleeve towards the end today? Actually I think it was the latter, both Massa and Raik stroked it home in the last stint today saving their engines for Barca while Lewis and Alonso were hammer and tongs trying to catch Massa and Heidfeld respectively.
One thing is a dead cert, if Schu was in this years Ferrari he would have blitzed 'em.
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One thing is a dead cert, if Schu was in this years Ferrari he would have blitzed 'em.
Don't agree, he wasn't blitzing them last year and wouldn't do so this year either!
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Don't agree, he wasn't blitzing them last year and wouldn't do so this year either!
Last year the best two cars were the Renault and Ferrari, the Renault had the edge for most of the season, nevertheless and despite reliability issues Schu took it to the wire. This year the best two cars are the McLaren and Ferrari (with Sauber BMW not far behind) though the Ferrari has the edge, in such circumstances he would be untouchable.
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Brilliant racing. Stoner wasn't troubled once he escaped on lap 1, Behind though there was some very frantic racing. I thought Ducati were going to get a full set on the podium - but Tony Elias had other ideas! Nearly all the front runners were on Bridgestones, who must be delighted with that result - only Nicky Hayden was on Michelins in the first page of finishers.
Well done to Chris Vermuelen for getting back on his Suzuki after the early crash and making such excellent progress
This 800cc MotoGP season has the makings of a classic
Also, well done to Bradley Smith in the 125 class who fought his way into the leading group and deserved a podium
The 250 class also had an exciting last few laps ...
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As stated in title, double click on image for full screen.
www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/tv/nw200/output.shtml
{This will get moved to the current "The F1 & motorsport thread" later today - DD}
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