This could creat utter chaos!
Road pricing hits Hadrian's Wall
By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
Last Updated: 1:35am GMT 08/02/2007
Plans for road pricing throughout Britain could be blocked by the Scottish parliament and Welsh assembly.
A senior official at the Department for Transport has admitted that Scottish MPs would have to debate any proposals to operate the scheme there. Devolution has put the Welsh in a similar position to make their own decisions on how to tackle congestion.
The ability of the Scots to stop road pricing is particularly embarrassing for Douglas Alexander, the Transport Secretary, who is also Secretary of State for Scotland.
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"This is yet more confirmation that the Government's strategy on road pricing is utterly chaotic," said Chris Grayling, the Tory transport spokesman.
"How can you possibly have a Secretary of State for Scotland seeking to impose a scheme on England, when he doesn't have the ability to extend it nationwide?
"This is just going to make people even angrier than they are at the moment."
The potential complications of bringing a nationwide scheme emerged in a letter written by Julian Smith, a policy adviser at the DfT.
As things stand, Mr Alexander, in his capacity as Transport Secretary, has the power to introduce road pricing only on the network maintained by the Highways Agency.
"In order to go beyond this to any form of national road pricing, appropriate legislation would need to be agreed by the UK Parliament," Mr Smith wrote.
"Where that legislation impacted on any areas of devolved responsibility, it would also need to be debated and agreed in the Scottish Parliament."
Paul Watters, the head of roads policy at AA Public Affairs, said: "This would create utter confusion."
tinyurl.com/2vo2jq
madf
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The whole idea is just daft from the beginning, all they need to do is tax heavily by VED the gas guzzlers - and by this I mean at least £1000 per year not an extra £40 for the worst offenders.
And increase petrol duty a tax no one can easily avoid. Re-direct the extra funds into public transport, and it should acheive the same result as road pricing.
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And what do you class as a 'gas guzzler'. My 2.2 Vectra is in band F, the second highest band. Somehow, after they've slapped on a £1000/year tax, I can't see them providing a bus to pick me up at 5am out in the sticks.
You're a politicians dream!!!
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Sounds like a perfect contender for about £800 VED per year to me. You do have the option of a Band A car with no VED (and I bet there will be quite a few to choose from in a couple of years) or any of the other cars in band B (Honda Civic), C, D & E
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Much better to scrap VED altogether and stick the whole lot on fuel. Those with high mileages would pay more ditto those with less fuel efficient cars. Taxing fuel is the fairest and most in proportion way. It's also a lot harder to evade fuel taxation. I'd also get rid of red diesel as fuel used is still fuel used regardless of what you're using it for. I'd then have an MOT sticker for the screen like the tax disc is now along with an insurance sticker. Sticking the cost of third party insurance on fuel as well might also be a sensible move. Fuel at £1.50 a litre would make more people think about their journeys than having huge fixed cost increases. If you increase fixed costs then people are more likely to travel further to get their money's worth out of such a ridiculous level of VED. Plus it would lead to increased evasion which the DVLA already can't cope with.
teabelly
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>The whole idea is just daft from the beginning, all they need to do is tax heavily by VED the gas guzzlers -
I'm afraid you're in the wrong thread. Road pricing is being proposed as a solution to congestion not climate change.
Would you also care to explain how increasing VED or duty on fuel is going to reduce the number of cars on the road?
If everyone swapped their "gas guzzlers" tomorrow there would still be the same number of cars. There would still be the same number of people needing to get from A to B.
>Sounds like a perfect contender for about £800 VED per year to me. You do have the option of a Band A car with no VED
Tell that to all the low-income households struggling to keep their 10 year old Escorts on the road because they work shifts and need to get to work at 6am.
When are you people going to realize that no-one drives at peak times for pleasure. They do it because they have no F! alternative.
Kevin...
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Typical! The mafia of Scottish MPs and ministers come down and impose stuff on us and then go home and decide not to introduce it their own country! Teabelly is spot on, IMHO, duty on fuel would ensure that visitors to this country would pay to use our roads which would be an additional benefit.
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Kevin,
10 year old escorts are not banded for VED.
The road pricing is to reduce the dependency on cars (congestion) and hence less pollution - 2 birds / 1 stone
If VED was higher (for banded cars) it would encourage more fuel efficient cars and discourage the polluters. That's half of the problem solved, you're right.
I agree with teabelly that raising petrol duty is another sensible way to tax cars and encourage people to use them less.
I would do both, raise VED (for polluters) & increase fuel duty (for everyone). I do not agree with road pricing at all, I do not agree with penalising people for having to go to work.
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", all they need to do is tax heavily by VED the gas guzzlers"
So the person with the range rover who does 1,000 miles a year would pay ten times the amount of the Focus owning rep who does 50,000? Not really very logical.
V
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Well if the Scots don't do road pricing, I shall register my car at my brother's address in Scotland and save me £ss..
I reckon everyone else will do the same.
madf
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What a totally TOP idea madf! Congratulations! Re tax on fuel I can't really see the problem. The tax can't be avoided, there is already a mechanism is place to collect it and pass it on to Grasping Gordon.. I admit that this doesn't address the congestion issues in cities and strangfled lengths of some motorways. But the ideal of every vehicle in the country having a black box to track it (results held on file for 25 years by Security people together with you DNS!) and people being sent a monthly bill for their road use beggars belief! BTW, have yo seen that the electronic 'chip' in our new biometric passports onlt has a warranted 2 years life in a 10 year passport? Are we surprised? NO!
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>Armitage
And imagine if the Welsh don't approve it.
Peops in Mold driving 30 miles into Liverpool tax free..
Those muppets in Westminster have really no idea..
I can see a few Welsh sheep farmers registering a few 1000 cars each..
or Car Hire companies all based in Cardiff.. totally legally...
Frankly the people who think up these schemes should be forced to employ a "what if" team who think up ALL the problems and dodges.. and then can only employ a new scheme if it's proved to be exemtion proof.
Mrs T would probably still be in power if such a team looked at the Poll Tax... before it was implemented. But absolute power corrupts...
and if your average politician is not very world weary...
madf
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Well if the Scots don't do road pricing, I shall register my car at my brother's address in Scotland and save me £ss.. I reckon everyone else will do the same. madf
Won't your brother mind if everyone registers their car at his address? ;)
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"Won't your brother mind if everyone registers their car at his address? ;) "
About 4,999,999 other Scots to choose from:-)
madf
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Won't the DVLA wonder why all 5 million Scots suddenly start to drive 18 cars each?
[Nobody listened to Tam Dalyell - did they...?]
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Vin,
No, because I also agree with high fuel duty so the focus driver will pay handsomely for his 4.500 litres of fuel. If someone wants an expensive gas guzzler/polluter shiny toy in their garage then they can pay for it annually, otherwise they can just grow up and accept that the time for polluting is over.
The focus driver would pay
£450 for 10p extra
£900 for 20p extra
£1350 for 30p extra
I think it should be around 30p extra which for average use = 10,000 miles would be only an extra £270 per year.
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I've got a great idea. We could put a 80% tax on fuel.....oh! hang on, we already do that! They could restrict us to one child per family so we can all fit in these little band B cars. Perhaps we will be made to but those little trailers you can attach to bikes...the kids could go in there!
I despair at views supporting yet more tax. We contribute more than enough already.
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I'd hardly call a Honda Civic "little"
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