Has anyone else notice how many people are driving around without their headlights on during daytime thick fog ?
I took a straw pole today and something like 50% of drivers had no lights switched on, a further 20% only had tiny side lights on, and this was in fog around midday where visibility was less than 100 meters. I stood at the side of the road and pointed towards peoples lights as they passed by but they looked at me gone out and not one of them turned on their lights. The hardest cars to spot were silver and dark coloured cars, they had to be around 30 meters closer to pick them out of the fog than for example a red car. In addition many of those same cars were driving well in excess of the 30 mph speed limit.
Have people gone totally mad or are they simply so lost of their own little world they don't stop to think they can't be seen and have a much increased risk or being involved in a serious incident ?
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I went Cambridge to Kettering at about 4pm 2 days ago, on the A 14, and there were very few people with no lights, quite a few on side-lights, most on headlights and the usual bunch of idiots with everything on full bore, front and rear, even though the visibility was well over half a mile. I don't know which annoys me more - glow worms or mobile lighting displays!
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I saw a driving school car today,good visibility,fog lights on-they seem to be teaching those habits!!!!
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Yes I agree, many with no lights, others with too many while stuck in queues.
It's the result of the nanny state and too much television. Brain dead.
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"Have people gone totally mad or are they simply so lost of their own little world they don't stop to think they can't be seen and have a much increased risk or being involved in a serious incident ?"
I'm not mad or self absorbed (honestly...) but I do have another excuse for not having my lights on this morning...
My car has auto lights, so I'm used to just getting in and letting it sort itself out, forgetting that fog doesn't actually affect light levels so it hadn't twigged that visibility was down and that lights were needed. As soon as I realised, the lights went on. Sorry!
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I'm not mad or self absorbed (honestly...) but I do have another excuse for not having my lights on this morning... My car has auto lights.... Sorry!
Yes, I don't think auto-lights are that much use - mine blissfully ignore medium-heavy rain, fog, etc. What's worse is if they come on and it lightens by 5% and they switch off. Unless it's dark (so obvious lights are on) I always move it from auto and go 'old-school' :). Doesn't help that the Avensis dash board is permanently lit either, it doesn't attract your attention if the auto lights switch off.
Anyway...back to the morons...I believe most of them think that if they can see, they don't need their lights on - not realising that lights are as much about being seen as lighting your own path.
And those who leave rear-fogs on in queues and close, slow-moving traffic - maybe they will learn the day someone rear-ends them due to not spotting the brake lights in time.
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My observation as well .
Today around Oxfordshire I saw, in open country with visibility probably 150 metres, numerous vehicles with no lights on. Others with everything on, even in built up aeras where it was too much ; and of course, the parking lights brigade. The latter included somebody on a driving lesson
tho how it's "the nanny state" to blame, I can't follow.
For me it's more to do with people not feeling their lights help them to see, and having minimum /no concern for the welfare of others who need to see THEM.
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It is the parking lights brigade that I simply cannot fathom. If you think to turn on your lights at all, why not heads, it needs serious thought to only switch on sidelights!!!
In earlier times when cars had pathetic dynamos which could barely keep up with headlights plus perhaps heater fan, there was possibly some excuse - battery might go flat on a long journey. These days what are they worried about? I suppose there must be a trivial effect on fuel consumption, but when contrasted with risk of not being seen is not worthy of consideration.
I guess if you are intelligent to think it out you would have your full lights on anyway.
Other pet hate this time of year is rear fogs on at night in clear weather, seems to be getting more common.>> My observation as well .
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We very rarely have fog in my part of the world, but fog lights are probably the most used feature of 70 per cent of vehicles on our roads in the area....:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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pug 206's are by far the worst parking lights only offender, take a look next time you are out
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pug 206's are by far the worst parking lights only offender, take a look next time you are out
I agree with that statement, the little side lights on the 206 are rubbish, shame the EU killed off the good old British dim - dip system.
Im a 206 owner, but seeing as it has auto lights & wipers im not one of the above offenders ;-)
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While we're on the subject of lights, what about people who sit in traffic with their foot on the brake very annoying especially with nearly vehicle having high level stop lamps nowadays.And another thing is it me or are more people thinking that it is only necessary to drive a vehicle with only one headlamp working.
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You are force to put your foot on the bake if you drive an automatic otherwise the car will roll forward.
I agree about the one headlight, how an earth people can see the road is beyond me, but I suppose the police can't be bothered to stop otherwise they will need to issue a ticket and right a long report about it. What happended to good old fashioned police advice?
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These people are so thick, they don't even know what the different lights are called, or what they're all for. Some think dips are called main beam because they're the 'main' lights. Don't forget we know have 45% adult illiteracy in some inner-city areas, yet high enough benefits to afford a car.
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Im sure some of it is because they can see other drivers, they can assume that people can see them in return, whereas in reality the only raeson they can see other drivers is because they are the ones with there lights on.
Even the so called 'professioanl drivers' such as bus and lorry drivers think that the lihgting law doesnt apply to them.
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Even the so called 'professioanl drivers' such as bus and lorry drivers think that the lighting law doesnt apply to them.
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All buses in my area have their dip beams on all the time night and day ( when on the road)
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I have just been catching up and saw the earlier reference to auto lights. My focus has them and I dont use them for the reasons above (fog, rain etc.). When they did prove useful was driving a C Max along the coastal motorway between Nice and Pisa where in bright sunlight you rapidly pass through and over short tunnels and viaducts.
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My 206 has auto lights & wipers.
While fog doesnt turn them on, putting wipers on will turn the auto lights on as well if a certain amount of rain hits the sensor.
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It was impossible to drive on parking lights with the dim dip system and why it was dropped is beyond me. Parking lights should not be allowed when moving.
I saw two 04 cars and one 05 car in a row waiting a junction yesterday, all had only one headlight. This must be due to the difficulty in accessing the bulbs on late model cars. There should be a construction and use rule that all exterior bulbs must be replaceable in (say) 5 minutes with no tools.
As to the everything on brigade, I always thought that foglights at night cut through the fog and keeping headlights on as well ruins their purpose. It makes some sort of sense to keep them on in daytime fog.
I try to keep off the road now when it?s foggy because of all these brainless idiots who can?t work out when and when not to switch their lights on.
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I know why we have main beams - to light up country roads when there is no other road user in the vicininty.
I know why we have dipped beams - to light up the roads and to be seen without being blinded.
I know why we have fog lights - to shine under the fog when our dipped beams would just be relected under it. However it raises an interesting question - won't fog lights, even when used correctly blind the driver comming towards you, if they are so badly aligned that in clear weather they are ilegal.
I don't know why we have side/parking lights - they seem useless. If you want to be seen use the dipped beam. If you want to see use the dipped/main beam.
Why do we have side lights and what's the apropate use of fog lights?
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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I know why we have fog lights - to shine under the fog when our dipped beams would just be relected under it.
I meant when our dipped beams would just be reflected in the fog.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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I don't know why we have side/parking lights - they seem useless.
Not totally. See my comments belowIf you want to be seen use the dipped beam.
I agree
I have replaced my 5W side light bulbs with uprated W5W bulbs costing about £5.
These are blue but show a much brighter white light.
They give a bit of redundancy in the event of a dip beam failure ( as happened to me yesterday and again today)I will not revert to standard bulbs.
This assumes it is easy to replace the bulbs.
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I don't know why we have side/parking lights - they seem useless. >>
Well, for a starter, they are useful if you want to give some warning when your car is parked.
On Tuesday afternoon I was being followed on a dual carriageway, in fog, by what I thought was a motorbike. When it overtook me, it turned out to be a car with a single n/s headlight and nothing at all on the o/s. I'd hate to meet this chap head on, in fog, in a country lane. At least, when one headlight has failed, a functioning sidelight can provide something of a back-up. Oh, where IS roadplod?
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Why do we have side lights
So us BMW owners with Angel Eyes can pose whilst parked or when it isn't really dark yet.
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your dead right on the reason why many cars are driven with non working lights. One major factor when I change vehicles is ease of regular maintenace.
As the lights on my transit have poor I range I will often drive on main beem in fog. Personaly I would rather seee overkill than nothing at all.
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I saw two 04 cars and one 05 car in a row waiting a junction yesterday, all had only one headlight. This must be due to the difficulty in accessing the bulbs on late model cars.
I am a one headlamp offender at present.
My 98 Mondeo is another example of a " not easy to change a front bulb" vehicle.
N/S dip failed yesterday. I had an instant warning from the dash display.
After 2 years this is my first failure of an Osram Silver Star bulb.
So this morning, off with the shield around the bonnet catch, unbolt then unclip the fragile clips on the grill, remove two bolts and slacked a third to release the headlamp unit, unplug indicators, unplug the loom then release the rear seal to expose the lamp.
Been there, done it before but it was a bit cool outside.
Popped in my spare used standard bulb from my kit , tested OK so reassembled it all.
This evening that same bulb went, just my luck. Fortunately I have no planned trips til Tuesday
I am now awaiting a delivery of a new set of Silverstars.
There should be a construction and use rule that all exterior bulbs must be replaceable in (say) 5 minutes with no tools.
I agree.
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"why dim dip system and why it was dropped is beyond me"
It was an UK idea that our leaders in the EC (as was then) didn't like, because of some issue with Luxembourg. What a brilliantly conceived way to govern people who live in Countries with fundementally differing needs, brilliant.
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>>All buses in my area have their dip beams on all the time night and day ( when on the road)>>
It's the same in my area (Arriva) - it would appear to be mandatory.
Ironically, drivers using only their sidelights are still within the law if the lamp posts are not more than a certain number of yards (metres) apart in a 30mph zone.
The actual wording is:
" * ...when in a 30mph speed limit and the street lighting is no more than 185 metres (600 feet) apart. In this case side lights and rear obligatory lamps must be illuminated."
Frightening.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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The car without any lights on at all at 4pm in quite thick fog and in rapidly fading light was a Volvo Estate, T reg - I thought they had daylight running lights.
Also have to say that the majority of drivers without lights in fog seem to be women!
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Phil
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Has anyone else noticed how many people are driving around without their headlights on during daytime thick fog ?
No.
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L\'escargot.
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One reason for not switching on lights in poor visibility might be factory fitted satnav. Switch the lights on and most of them auto-dim thinking it's night. On many it's very difficult to work out how to overcome this, though some satnavs do have a switch.
HJ
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One reason for not switching on lights in poor visibility might be factory fitted satnav. Switch the lights on and most of them auto-dim thinking it's night. On many it's very difficult to work out how to overcome this, though some satnavs do have a switch. HJ
Sorry, but I don't get this. What has Satnav got to do with switching on one's headlights in very poor visibility?
Are you implying that by so doing you cannot see your SatNav - surely not! How essential in Satnav when driving around, say, in one's local region just doing Christmas shopping etc.
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Well talking about using fog lights, I've vowed to never use fogs again since a few years ago when driving through thick fog I was very surprised and disappointed to be pulled over by plod and fined £40. The reasoning at the time was that the fog wasn't thick enough - I'd just driven up a hill, foggy towards the bottom, thinner at the top, as soon as I got to the top of the hill, pulled over, patronising long speech, followed by £40 fine.
So now I don't take the chances - just in case I'm not driving with one hand on the fog lights button, ready to switch on / off with every change in fog conditions, I find it easier instead to just leave the fogs off.
Plod - making all our lives safer...
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I've vowed to never use fogs again since a few years ago when driving through thick fog I was very surprised and disappointed to be pulled over by plod and fined £40.>
If that was a few years ago then all the highway police have since been replaced by cameras so you can start to use them again. I would still rather you didn?t use the rear ones which I hate with a passion. The whole concept of them is outweighed by their nuisance factor. Do any accessory manufacturers make a motorised telescopic device to accurately spray black gunge onto the ones on the (stationary) car in front?
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HJ is implying that factory fitted satnav takes its'cue for night time operation from the cars'lights,unlike my Garmin which just seems to know.I cannot see a sensor on it so I presume the sats tell it.
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Garmin satnavs link to sunset and sunrise times for your locality. Very clever feature, as soon as the sun goes down it switches to night mode.
As for fog lights we have been fortunate in not having the pea souper that some have had, but climbing a hill yeserday we encounterd light mist, but the fool in front immediately switched on the rear fogs. This mist lasted lasted less than a mile, but did they turn the fogs off? Oh no they were still on miles later when it was clear as a bell. Before considering fog lights need shoud be assessed. In my opinion they should be used when traffic is light and visibility is as per the highway code. Whats the point in using them while stuck in a traffic jam? Unfortunately many drivers don't think what they are doing or consider other motorists.
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My point was, if you are in an unfamiliar area with lots of roundabouts and exits (for example, the Northampton area to anyone unfamiliar with it) and you are being guided by factory fit satnav you might switch your lights off in daylight so you can see the directions.
HJ
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I always have had front foglights, as they look nice, like a pair of earings on a pretty girl. This car I have (for my sins) is the first car that doesn't have them, I planned to fit them as part of 'Operation Top of the Range', but have since change my mind especially as they would partially block the intercooler louvres.
As for rear ones, In 14 years of motoring, I have only ever used them for about 15 mins on one occasion when lost in the darkest undiscovered depths of the peak district one winter, that was an exciting time, walking pace was too fast!
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when traffic is light and visibility is as per the highway code. Whats the point in using them while stuck in a traffic jam? Unfortunately many drivers don't think what they are doing or consider other motorists.
Same goes for headlights as well. I cannot really see the reasons for dozens of stationary or near stationary cars having their headlights on but having said that I suppose keep switching them on and off (if people could be bothered) would be rather a nuisance?
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I am at loss myself to understand the mentality of some drivers! I too see them with no lights, side lights and only one headlight.
As for rear fog lights I think thy should be banned, if its so foggy that you need extra lighting then maybe you shouldn't be on the road!
So PLEASE turn them off when in traffic, don't people know that they blind cars behind to the break lights!!! especially in RAIN.
Thats my rant for now, but its just part of the growing problem of bad driving.
Now I feel better........
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I am at loss myself to understand the mentality of some drivers! I too see them with no lights, side lights and only one headlight. As for rear fog lights I think thy should be banned, if its so foggy that you need extra lighting then maybe you shouldn't be on the road! So PLEASE turn them off when in traffic, don't people know that they blind cars behind to the break lights!!! especially in RAIN. Thats my rant for now, but its just part of the growing problem of bad driving. Now I feel better........
What is even more annoying is that most manufacturers are only fitting one reversing and one fog light. The former's is particularly irksome as I find that the illumination from my Golf's one reversing light is too poor to see when performing that manoeuvre!
Twin reversing and twin rear foglights, I say.
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What is even more annoying is that most manufacturers are only fitting one reversing and one fog light. The former's is particularly irksome as I find that the illumination from my Golf's one reversing light is too poor to see when performing that manoeuvre!
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You could upgrade the existing units with better bulbs - P21W.
www.redgriffin.co.uk/products.asp?cat=67Twin reversing and twin rear foglights, I say.
I agree but IIRC the EU has something to say about it.
I have been fortunate and had both on all my Fords.
I even fitted rear fogs to match the standard Wipac reversing lights on my 1600E.
I note the original Focus saloon has twins but the hatch does not. Most odd :-(
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Has anyone else notice how many people are driving around without their headlights on during daytime thick fog ?
I see more cars with foglights on during daytime sun than cars without headlights on during daytime fog.
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L\'escargot.
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It has been mentioned above that lots of buses drive around with dipped beam on even in broad daylight. Arriva has adopted his as a national policy, and I think First has gone down the same route (pardon the pun). If an Arriva bus driver is seen on the road without their dipped headlights on it is deemed a disciplinary matter.
The idea is that it apparently reduces the risk of accidents by ensuring the bus is more visible. Quite how you could miss seeing a bus I'm not sure. Speaking with an Arriva fitter recently he mentioned that it's costing them a small fortune in replacement bulbs on the non LED equipped members of the fleet.
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(typo correction made on PeterPerfect's behalf)
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I drive in lots of country lanes in my locale, often so unused they've got a 'lawn' down the middle with potholes, deep puddles & soft (& sometimes 'ditched') verges - I often use the fogs in these circumstances, they illuminate the verges & nearest 10mteres & have saved me from axle-breaking holes on several occasions (..and probably a few unplanned 'off-road' jaunts as well)
My gripe about headlight use are the people who don't use any beam angle adjuster when carrying back-seat passengers (fair enough, some might not be fitted with them) the effect obviously, is like semi-highbeam - much more dangerous on single track roads where you tend to squeeze past . I don't have a problem with other people's front fogs - if they're adjusted properly they don't dazzle & point much further lower than dipped headlights. The 'dim dip' seems sensible for well lit urban areas where 'be-seen' is more important than illuminate you path.
Many 'proper' old bicycles had lamps that had a 'country' (long view) & 'town' (diffused) adjustment - the former akin to main bean, the latter wider & diffused allowed you to be seen by others more easliy.
Season's greetings to all!
~woodbines
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As the most common statement after an accident is "I didnt see you", I err towards lights on at the slightest excuse. If it annoys some people tough, it means they have seen me and hopefully wont pull out in front of me or overtake towards me. The Arriva bus policy is copying what the military have done for years. Seasons greetings to one and all.
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The buses headlights policy is in response to pedestrians being hit and/or killed by a bus in city centres where there is a high concentration of buses mixing with pedestrians. With most bus engines being located at the rear a pedestrian does not have the audible warning of it approaching as they do with most cars. Having their lights on gives a better visual warning but these are of no use if a pedestrian does not look and walks in front of a bus which is so easy to do with the mixing of buses and pedestrians in shopping areas in some city centres. Maybe fitting all buses with a frontal engine noise transmitting device would help.
I think that rear fog lights are useful not only in thick fog but also in very heavy rain. Heavy rain produces conditions similar to thick fog at the rear of a vehicle. As soon as the rain and spray eases the fog lights should be turned off. Also I think that all rear fog lights should be located either in or below the rear bumper, fitted as a matching pair (not single lamps that save the manufacturer a few quid) and not fitted at eye level or alongside brakelights which in my opinion is a safety issue failure of the manufacturer in implementing the best possible solution rather than, as some do, going for a cosmestic or cheap to implement solution.
It's pretty obvious that some vehicle manufacturers are not thinking through enough the safety implications of fitting auto lighting to their vehicles and also the way some have set up their various light on/off switch combinations. Front fog lights only seem to be of value in providing a wide spread of light to light up the verges and centre of the road with little forward vision being offered, these are of benefit in really heavy fog but other than that they just serve to blind oncoming drivers.
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I agree on the bumper mounted fog light idea, dont really think a matching pair is really needed though.
The centre or o/s mounted one is good enough.
206, Puma, newer shape Corsa, mk1 Focus all have low down rear fogs & all easy to spot last week with no possibility of confusing the rear fogs with the brake lights.
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Ive started to use my driving lights when going down unlit country roads so i can pick up the verges better,got to Say im not hanging about when i practise this, but do turn them off when i spot an oncoming vehicle coming my way.
The rear fogs ala mk1 focus etc are in my opinion the best place for them especially on a motorway because they give a better idea of distance /object
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Ive wired a relay in so my front fogs also come on with the main beam, Lots of unlit twisty country roads near me so you need all the light you can get in front of the car.
I agree on the low down rear fogs, so much easier to spot because they are so low down they miss all the mist / fog / spray.
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I think that rear fog lights are useful not only in thick fog but also in very heavy rain.
And that people is why some people use fogs whenever they like, don't use ligths etc etc. They do what you think is useful, not what the highway code actually advises. Fog lights and heavy rain is a definate no no. The rain magnifies the high intensity lights and makes the situation worse for following drivers.
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daveyjp, you misunderstand the point I was trying to make. When rain is heavy and conditions apply when there is so much spray flying around from vehicles that visibility becomes less than 100 metres, in which case the fog rule/law for the use of rear fog lights applies as defined by the highway code/law, failure to use rear fog lights in such circumstances is illegal and an offence.
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I have to ask you, OM, what are these "driving lights" you have? Would they be foglights in all but name? ;-)
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I have to ask you, OM, what are these "driving lights" you have? Would they be foglights in all but name? ;-)
foglights to me have yellow lenses and say lucas on the front ;-)
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>> I have to ask you, OM, what are these "driving lights" >> you have? Would they be foglights in all but name? ;-)
foglights to me have yellow lenses and say lucas on the front ;-)
Foglights to me, say Notek and have a concave glass with a blue triangular glass piece jutting out in the centre.
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i always saw them as driving lights oldgit?
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i always saw them as driving lights oldgit?
No. Mine produced a horizontal beam which was supposed to illuminate the road below the layer of fog - I think - maybe my memory is playing tricks after nearly fifty years!
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Many 'proper' old bicycles had lamps that .........
Mine were powered by calcium carbide and water. They were much better than battery powered lamps.
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L\'escargot.
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There are several Notek lamps on ebay just now. The foglamps have ribbed lenses whilst the spotlamps (driving lamps) are plain. The idea was to mount the foglamp on the right hand side so you looked along the beam in fog and the spotlamp on the left so you could illuminate the road far ahead in clear conditions. The regulations then changed so that you could only use foglights in pairs, this made sense as they are designed to be used without headlights. See: The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_2.htm Paras 25 and 27.
Quite a few cars had driving lamps fitted as standard which came on with main beam, the Cortina 1600E was one.
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The Peugeot 309 GTI was another car with driving lights fitted.
One pair of driving lights & a another pair of front fogs mounted all mounted in the front bumper.
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Slightly off topic but one thing that annoys me when on foot ( I often walk the dog about 5 so it's dark at this time of year) is people who don't dip their headlights when I'm walking towards them-very inconsiderate.
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is people who don't dip their headlights when I'm walking towards them-very inconsiderate.
A very bright torch shined towards them works wonders.
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There are several Notek lamps on ebay just now. The foglamps have ribbed lenses whilst the spotlamps (driving lamps) are plain.
Quite correct! I had the ribbed glass one with a blue spot centre, Ergo I had the foglamp with the spring loaded 'micro' adjuster at the foot of the lamp to the rear. In reality, then as now all these lamps were pretty useless especially if visibility was so bad that you could not see as far as the front of the car.
Many a time I have had to drive home with my driver's door open or even with the passenger's door open so that he/she could see where the kerbside started and ended as each side road was passed - hey! those were the days, which sorted we, the proper drivers out from the wusses.
Don't forget that many people, driving today, will have never driven in the pea-soupers of the fifties/sixties
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Perhaps a bit off topic but my Dad and I once trudged through a London pea-souper in 1951 to get some petrol for our Austin Devon after he had run out. Once back at the car we poured in the juice and tried to open the door. Only then did we discover we had put the stuff in somebody else?s car! I often wonder what they thought, if they noticed that is. At least it shows how thick the fog was, or how thick we were!
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Quite a few cars had driving lamps fitted as standard which came on with main beam, the Cortina 1600E was one.
Yep. They were operated via a Lucas relay and just a simple splice into the loom.
Yet another item ( said lamps) that I had stolen so some scroat could ugrade a 1.3.
I also swoped the headlamps for Cibies so I had some of the best illumination without resorting to non standard banks of add ons like the Mini.
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