I have noticed not too far from me there is a camper van parked in a public road with someone staying or living in it.
Is this legal?
If it is not legal who would be responaible for dealing with it, Police/Council or Highways Authority?
Although the individual does not seem to be presenting any problem to residents and I would not have an issue with someone using it to get over some bad times (homelessness or temporary accomodation problems) I would be reluctant to see a situation where this type of accomodation is seen as a viable option in my area.
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I am aware that it's an offence to park on a lay-by overnight as it's part of the highway authority property so if the police caught you i'd think you can be fined/ prosecuted in the civil courts etc..
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Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
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Only where there are specific local laws. Live and let live. It's Christmas.
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Only where there are specific local laws. Live and let live. It's Christmas.
Agreed, and over the early part of next year as well - perhaps when the weather's at its coldest. My only concern is if one gets away with it for long then how many other similar arrangements will pop up in the near future?
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Anyone living in a dwelling with a chemical toilet deserves sympathy, not condemnation.
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Bang on his door, make your worries known, let us know how you get on ;-)
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I remember a guy in the 1970's who lived in a Hillman Imp in Tredegar Square, Bow, East London. He lived in it for at least a year as I recall. He was divorced, wife had bled him dry. I Felt really sorry for him, but the left leaning bleeding heart socilaists (i.e. hypocryts) in the square wanted him moved on because he blighted the view from their 4 storey early Victorian houses.
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"I have noticed not too far from me there is a camper van parked in a public road with someone staying or living in it."
The only problem will be when he's had ten years' continuous occupation, at which point he can apply for a certificate of lawful development, and then get planning permission to erect a permanent building of the same size on the site.
That'll give the local Highways Dept some thing to think about!
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My english teacher used to live in a VW camper van in the school carpark, with the unofficial permission of the headteacher. He did however LOOK like he did aswell!
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"...The only problem will be when he's had ten years' continuous occupation, at which point he can apply for a certificate of lawful development, and then get planning permission to erect a permanent building of the same size on the site..."
That's very interesting, local yokel. Can you (or anyone) cite the relevant legislation?
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Was watching a program the other night where Ray Gosling was going around the country interviewing homeless people.One chap was living in his car,a Rover I think,in a laybay by a busy road.Although the car was legal,he said,he had no desire to be a modern day paraffin and travel about,he liked his laybay and had turned down offers of hostels etc..Takes all sorts.
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Lounge Lizard - my tongue was in my cheek as I wrote that!
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"Lounge Lizard - my tongue was in my cheek as I wrote that!"
You do surprise me, Local Yokel!
I am more interested to hear if there is such a thing as a retrospective certificate of lawful development or something. No, I don't want for me bedsit in me Volvo.
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Lounge Lizard
aiui, under planning rules if enforcement action is not taken within a specific timeframe then it becomes timed out and enforcement is not possible, the person can in fact apply for a certificate to say that enforcewment will not happen.
I think that a period of 3 years applies to building work and ten years to changes of use. I went to a seminar on planning law and we were told that if someone started running a business from home - even if that wasnt allowed then after 10 years the change of use was unstoppable, which was why we should oppose eg home mechanics. After 10 years what starts as a small thing can become a large business and nothing you can do about it.
look under planning legislation.
the above does not apply to listed buildings - there is no limit on enforcement for listed buildings.
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Thank you, ac.
I'd be very interested to know the exact period of time, is it 3 years, 10 years, 12 years or what?
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Don't think you need to be worried about whether or not a Certificate of Lawfulness will be granted for this.
The first question you need to ask is whether or not it is 'development'? A camper van which is on wheels and therefore likely to be able to be moved is not in my view 'development'. A Certificate of Lawfulness can only be issued on something which is 'development' and has been undertaken without planning permission when it required it. Does that make sense?
e.g. a caravan parked in your garden for 4* years does not mean that you can then apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness for this after 4 years and then automatically gain consent for a permanent dwelling.
* - recent case law has led Local Planning Authorities to come to the view that virtually all development associated with residential only has to be in continous breach of planning for 4 years, rather than 10 years as before.
Notwithstanding the above, a camper van parked on land not owned by the occupier will need the permission of the land owner. So contact the landowner (the Council I imagine) to make them aware of it if you are concerned about it.....
Bost.
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Hugo,
Tried to search your Council's website for any local bylaws that they have, whilst some paint was drying. The only stuff I could find was about overdue library books. Lost the will to live shortly afterwards. Give your council a ring tomorrow. No doubt someone there will know.
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Thanks PU.
I think I'll leave it until after New Year.
I've no desire to ruin his Christmas. May take him a mince pie on the day :)
Most people around here feel sorry for him rather than begrudge his presence.
I suppose I would like reassurance that he won't be a permant fixture.
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Hugo,
I am really sorry but this was the only place I could find to park the camper.
I'm going through a bit of a hard time at the moment but things should improve when I get the kebab and burger setup running.
Kevin...
PS. Can you open up the firewall on your WiFi router? I'd like to use P2P filesharing and I think you've got those ports blocked.
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The way things are going in this country,high property prices,ever increasing council tax etc etc,maybe for certain people,this is the way to go !
Move on when you want,visit different places,no telly license,if you don't like the surroundings just go somewhere else.
Thats it folks,cash in your property now,pack in the job,buy a luxury camper and travel.Pay no taxes and enjoy a stress free life.!
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As a resident of Cornwall Hugo, doesn't it just remind you of summer? ;-)
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Phil
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Leave him alone - there's nothing wrong with parking a camper in the road - what difference does it make if there's someone in it?
Unless it's a 30 footer with extending sides, and an ordinary car hitched on the back for everyday use.
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Friends of ours bought a piece of land with an old steel-framed barn. They converted the inside of the barn to stables for about 10 horses, and bought a couple of mobile homes, put them about 12 feet apart, and built a canopy over the aisle between. They pushed another caravan up to that, as I remember. They lived in this set-up with two kids.
About 10 (perhaps more) years on they have got a certificate of lawful devpt, and now have PP for a house with the same footprint (or perhaps floor area, I'm not sure). They had some serious issues along the way, as I expect the planners knew that they were effectively writing them a cheque for at least £250k, the plot being in the E of Oxfordshire.
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There is a distinction between a 'mobile' homes (like the ones you tend to get in a holiday park) and a caravan you tow you behind your car.
Can fully understand how your friends got away with it though..... ;-)
Hugo - in the case of the camper van, there is very little chance of them being granted such a certificate so don't worry about that angle!
Although...... if there was a change in interpretation on what is 'development' to allow camper vans to 'count', it could have a positive impact on traffic flows in Cornwall and other holiday destinations! No-one would dare move their camper vans for four years as they wouldn't want to lose the 'right' to build an additional dwelling....
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I've often thought that it'd be great to have a camper to be able to drive to the pub, have lots of pints, then go to bed outside or in the car park. Would save a load in taxi fares...
Alex.
ps I also seem to recall that Alan Bennet had an eccentric old lady living in a commer van in his garden for several years in the 1970s? But I guess that's different, as that was someone's private property.
pps listened to an interesting R4 programme recently about a young(ish) couple that had sold their house and bought an Irmer(?) camper to live in, just went around visiting various friends!
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Dr Alex Mears
MG BGT 1971
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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ps I also seem to recall that Alan Bennet had an eccentric old lady living in a commer van in his garden for several years in the 1970s?
To live in a commer van long term you'd have to be eccentric, fun for a few days in the summer but long term??
I do remember in the seventies a student acquiaintance living in a VW camper in the vicar's garden for a year.
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Alan Bennett wrote about the eccentric Miss Shepherd in his book 'Writing Home'.
She lived in the van parked on his driveway for fifteen years until her death.
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I've often thought that it'd be great to have a camper to be able to drive to the pub, have lots of pints, then go to bed outside or in the car park. Would save a load in taxi fares...
Ah, but would you still be considered to be "in charge" of the vehicle??
If you still had the keys available to you, the law might take the view that you could drive away at any time, and were therefore "in charge"
To be safe you would need to give your keys to someone else to kepep overnight?
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'Irmer(?)'
Hymer-German coachbuilt,quite expensive.
I've wondered about the legality of sitting in the back of my motor-caravan drinking a bottle of wine,with the full intention of kipping in it after,the caravan that is.I have always made sure I'm parked off road when imbibing,incase of having to move.
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Knowing about these things I wonder how he manages for utilities, where does he get his water from for washing & drinking & more importantly where does he get rid of it once its been through the system. Rubbish can I suppose be dumped in the nearest litter bin. Don't even think about the contents of the toilet.
I have thought about abandoning the house and I know of many folks who have done it, but it is really necessary to find a campsite, whether official or unofficial, to save grief.
Incidentally in my village three families have purchased various fields initially parking touring caravans on them and then upgrading to wooden dwellings. As they are tucked away down quiet lanes and keep a low profile I guess the planners are taking the easy option for now and leaving them be. The fields are outside the development boundary so I suspect future planning permission for bricks and mortar will be tricky.
Apologies for the tenuous motoring connection............
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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I suspect I know the people that own the camper van but I wouldn't easily recognised the person living in it.
I don't know of any incidents caused by long term residents of this nature. The only immediate issue there could be is for my neighbour who's trying to sell his house. The camper is parked up the road from us so it is not actually visable from his house.
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My gripe would be if they were blocking road visibility or causeing litter or dare i say it members of the traveling (thieving comunity)
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