This weekends' HJ column had a comment from a motorcyclist that tinted windows prevent him making eye contact with the driver. "If I can't see him, can he see me ?"
I'd like to support him. It's a matter of relative brightness on either side of the window. When the the day is a bright one the driver will be able to see out perfectly well. But can he at night ?
Deviating; the first time that I saw really dark tints was in Jeddah, where the 4x4s have fairly normal front and side screens and a chauffuer's mid window. The rear windows, and the chauffuer's window were so dark that it was impossible to see through from the outside. (Not that I tried; not advisable !!). I got the impression that the drivers wives etc. were in the back without their veils.
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We've done this before and I know others, including GRowler, disagree, but i believe restrictions on tint are absolutely justified.
As a driver being able to see the other guy/gal then if needs be make eye contact and "negotiate" division of space is advantageous. As a pedal cyclist it can be a life saver.
I'm sure the powers that be don't like haevy tint but the only place I've been aware of overt surveillance is at Dover ferryport; no doubt heavy tint there would have had me waved into a shed for a more thorough interrogation.
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I believe it is illeagal to have a tint on the front OR front side windows that results in less than 70% of the available light passing through.
As a motorcyclist I have to run the risk of being prosecuted if I use a tinted visor at all, even if it is a bright sunny day (and only a complete fool would use one of these at night).
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pretty much any aftermarket tint on the front or front side is illegal - If you can see that its been tinted it will be illegal, Im told that bmw has had a problem with some minis coming from the factory with windows that fail the test.
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Somewhat off topic. In leicester over the weekend I saw a 206 with very dark tints, driven round by 2 or more youngish lads. This was a car that called out the words CHAV. Whilst waiting in line for a traffic light an empty bottle of pop comes flying out the window and the driver seemingly oblivous drives off another 50 yards until the lights turn red again.
I had the satisfaction of seeing him 'cut up' as a car in the wrong lane made a last minute manuver and cut in to the considerable gap left by the 206 driver. The 206 driver must not have been paying attention to the road (big surprise) since after feeling cut up he held his horn for about 5 seconds afterwards and raced after the car in front. I wonder if they ban tints like the ones on the 206 this chavish behavour would cease to exist?
Point about not being able to make eye contact is very good. I like being able to see what a driver is directing their attention!
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Point about not being able to make eye contact is very good. I like being able to see what a driver is directing their attention!
Nails, Eye liner, Mobile, Fag, Coronation street, Eastenders, any Aussie soap etc etc etc et al.
MD.
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I assumed young lads with tinted windows had ugly girlfriends and those owners of people carriers with tints just had really ugly children ;-) One may beget the other of course....
teabelly
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Colleagues of mine in the Home Counties have been pulled in various contraptions and confiscation was proposed when one got a bit lairy. Apparently there is a device that measures light transmission and if you fail that you receive a warning to get it corrected. Several have bought vehicles with it already fitted and have sent back the corrective costs to the dealer/s. Who knows?
MD.
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I put on here a few months ago how dangerous they are on our congested roads, i saw the article and my opinion stands.
Nice to see vosa are clamping down though .
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The irony being I can wear shades with minimal light transmission and it isn't illegal, I had one pair which made indicators difficult to see. Stupid.
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I can wear shades with minimal light transmissionand it isn't illegal,
Not quite sure about that, although I can't find chapter and verse.
My optician told me back in March that it was now illegal to drive at any time in glasses which had less than 8% light transmission and that for night driving it was recommended that minimum transmission level should be 80%. This came about because I said that my new prescription sunglasses didn't appear to be as dark as my previous ones whereupon he said that was because I had said that I wanted them for driving and he was duty bound to keep them at 80% in case I used them at night, he would happily make them darker so long as I understood that I shouldn't use them at night or in rain/fog. He seemed quite convinced that this already was, or was about to become law, having said that I can only find reference on some optical sites about recommendations.
He did quote me Euro Directive 93/42 as detailing the guidelines but as it's the one that covers standards for just about every medical appliance known to man I'm not going to wade through it just at the moment! But as it's a Euro Directive no doubt it will be playing in a Statute near you sometime soon!
Useful table on page 7 of this link seems to lend some weight to what the optician said but I read it as guidelines rather than law.
tinyurl.com/ynyqfu
Suppose logic dictates that it applies to windscreens and visors it will soon apply to glasses.
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As far as i'm concerned, all non-factory tinted windows should be illegal. It's technically a modification to the car - but how many people tell their insurance company they've had it done?
It's dangerous, not just for motorcyclists, but for other car drivers. I often check my blind-spot over my shoulder before overtaking on a motorway - that would be impossible with sunglasses on and a tinted rear side window. And, finally, they're the height of bad taste.... second only to those vulgar wheeltrims that continue spinning when the vehicle has stopped. If I were to see a BMW 5-series with dark tinted windows and gold spinners, I would assume a drug-dealer or a pimp was driving.
Cars have transparent windows for a reason - if you don't want windows, buy a van.
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And, finally, they're the height of bad taste
That's the clincher for me.
were to see a BMW 5-series etc
Glad you left my profession out of your list ! ;-()
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Glad you left my profession out of your list !
Profession!! wot 'bout bilders!
MD
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you are right GregSwain what really brought these things home to me was i bought a chavved corsa a year or 2 back with the usual tints and it was like being in a cave and i can just about cope with anything with wheels but this was dangerous,i sold it with a proviso that it was a show car only and not road legal (seriously)
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This discussion takes me back about 35 years when tinted visors were relatively new. I used to ride around in the summer sunshine thinking how coooooool I looked. Then I found myself having to ride home at night - and lights on a Triumph T21 where never that good anyway. I couldn't see a thing and had to ride visorless - moths in eyes, eyes streaming etc.
I imagine the day/night effect would be similar with tinted car windows.
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When living in the UK, it was always amusing to me that tinted motorcyle visors were illegal, while bicycle helmets were not required. This is the exact opposite situation to here in New Zealand. Even with clear visors, in the UK a motorcyclist can still wear sunglasses, which isn't illegal. What was the purpose of that law? I particularly like the mirror-effect visors, which are only lightly tinted from the inside, but completely opaque from the outside. I used one in the UK, and was never pulled for it, but perhaps that was just luck. Of course I always carried a quick-change clear one in case I was still riding after dark.
Cycle helmets have been discussed before, and I wear one myself, even off-road, but despite the law here, many don't wear them. Perhaps the same disregard for the law that I showed, but with potentially greater consequences.
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sorry about the length of the following, but it was difficult to know where to stop and still make some kind of sense.
I do have a life...honest!
Regulation 32 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 specifies the type and construction standards of glass which must be fitted to motor vehicles and caravans since 1978. It states (in part):-
32(10) Windscreens or other windows constructed in accordance with the provisions of this regulation of specified safety glass, specified safety glass (1980) or safety glazing specified in relation to a vehicle of a class specified in an item below shall have a visual transmission for light of not less than the percentage specified for the windows mentioned in that item when measured perpendicular to the surface in accordance with the procedure specified in a document shown, unless exempted by paragraph (11).
NOTE: This sub-regulation shall not apply to a vehicle in respect of which a passenger vehicle approval certificate has been issued under the Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 1996, if it complies with or is exempt from the approval requirements relating to glazing.
Item 1.
In motor vehicles first used before 1st April 1985, all windows should have a visual transmission of light of not less than 70 percent when the procedure set out in British Standard Specification No 857 or No 5282 is applied.
Item 2.
In motor vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1985 and trailers windscreens should have a visual transmission of light of not less than 75 percent while in all other windows the requirement is of not less than 70 percent when the procedures set out in the documents mentioned in the definition of 'specified safety glass 1980' are applied. (see below)
32(11) Paragraph (10) does not apply to-
(a) any part of any windscreen which is outside the vision reference zone;
(b) windows through which the driver when in the driver's seat is unable at any time to see any part of the road on which the vehicle is waiting or proceeding;
(c) windows in any motor ambulance which are not wholly or partly in front of or on either side of any part of the driver's seat; or
(d) windows in any bus, goods vehicle, locomotive, or motor tractor other than windows which-
(i) are wholly or partly in front of or on either side of any part of the driver's seat;
(ii) face the rear of the vehicle; (see below) or
(iii) form the whole or part of a door giving access to or from the exterior of the vehicle.
32(11A) Paragraphs (10) and (11) have effect in relation to any tint, film or other substance or material applied to a windscreen or window as they have effect in relation to the windscreen or window itself.
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