(Thread headline altered for clarity. HJ)
...on cars these days? I'm certain we have discussed this before, but I would like to offer the following sorry tale as a caution to others.
The Mondeo has popped its offside sidelight bulb. Now, I am the sort of sad person who cannot stand to have lights out, even little ones, and was becoming maddened by seeing an odd number of lights reflected off the back of cars in front of me in traffic.
So, the day being clear, the sky being bright (sort of) and Mrs B needing peace and quiet for an hour or so, I strapped B Junior into his pushchair and walked the half-mile or so to my local Halfords, bought a twin-pack of suitable bulbs, and returned home to have a crack at fitting one. I am reasonably competent at taking things to bits, fixing them and putting them together again, and I thought "Can't be that difficult, there are instructions in the handbook ..."
...which turned out to be as much use as something that really isn't very useful at all. On the current model Mondeo it is apparently necessary to lift out the entire headlight assembly in order to change any of the bulbs inside. In order to do that you have to move the grille out of the way.
Trouble is, they don't seem to have updated the instructions since the facelifted model came out in '04, and of course the old model has a slightly different design of grille, so I damn near broke the thing trying to move it out of the way. Not clever. Anyway, after about 15 minutes of fiddling and swearing, I got the headlight assembly out, and removed the cover for the sidelight bulb holder - only to find that the wire has been cut so short that I couldn't get the bulb out anyway.
It then took another 20 minutes to get everything back together again, and given that the idea with all this rigmarole is clearly to make me take it to the dealer and pay them to do it for me, thus ensuring an income stream for them, I suppose I am now looking at a bill of around £50 to replace a pathetic little bulb costing just over a quid, which is ridiculous.
What particularly annoys me is that I had to do the same job on a '95 Punto SX about eight years ago and the whole process from opening bonnet to going indoors with the empty bulb packet and putting it in the bin took less than ten minutes. Heaven help me if one of the Mondy's foglight bulbs ever goes (not that I use the foglights much, if at all) - it said in the handbook "Consult your dealer", which given my experience above, probably means that the bumper has to come off...
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On the Touran, you need a special tool to get the rear light cluster off for a bulb change.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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On my old Lupo the battery had to be removed to get at the nearside headlamp bulb, and for whatever reason known only to VAG they used Torx screws to attach the rear light cluster.
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Believe me there are many cars much worse than the mondeo; not that that makes it right!
Remember though its not fair to expect your local garage to change bulbs for free either; a source of anoyance for many people but it still takes an experienced mechanic valuable time to change a bulb.
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I can't think of a single reason why the design of any car should prevent it having light bulbs that can't be changed in thirty seconds without tools.
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You must have had some bad luck there. I changed a sidelight bulb in a friend's 04 plate Mondeo recently and it took about five minutes from start to finish.
Try a Focus bulb change, now that is bad unless you've got tiny hands.
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You must have had some bad luck there. I changed a sidelight bulb in a friend's 04 plate Mondeo recently and it took about five minutes from start to finish.
Ditto on mine,
and I stopped for lunch.;-)
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Remember though its not fair to expect your local garage to change bulbs for free either...
Oh no, I wouldn't expect them to do it for free - time spent has to be paid for, and working for a professional firm I understand that very well indeed :-) The thing that grates is that the manufacturer has designed the car in such a way that it is necessary to take it to a garage. It ought to be a simple DIY job taking minutes, but then maybe I'm unreasonable...
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No wonder we see so many cars with various lights not working - seems to be every other one these days.
Strangely (for a Citroen driver!) I have rarely had to replace any bulbs on our cars, (and yes, I do check them regularly, my wife makes me!) but they have always been easy to get to on Bxs, Xantias and Berlingos. Front lights have a plastic cover which removes to expose bulb mount and rear lights have a "butterfly" nut (or spring clip) which unscrews and releases the entire bulb holder. I usually loosen this and retighten only finger tight so that it is easy to undo if a bulb goes.
The answer to the problem maybe to carry a complete spare set of bulbs with you at all times - this will ensure that no bulb ever blows!
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Phil
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PSA cars back to the Pug 104 and including the 205 and BX had the headlight unit retained by "press stud" type fixings. Piece of cake to ease out the whole unit, disconnect the wiring and then take the thing indoors to change bulb, and clean eveything up, at leisure. Later models have a much more complex fitting and while (Xantia) the actual bulb operation is straightforward one needs double jointed wrists to access the back of the headlamp unit.
Berlingo still on original bulbs (as it should be at 18 months) but looks much easier, at least in roomy engine compartment of a 1.9D.
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Don't worry Fiat also made it difficult on the next model, It took me ages, had to release/move the headlight units , fuse box & battery to get close. Even after this I still managed to remove most of the skin from my knuckles.
My Skoda Superb was just as bad, had to remove most of the air intake pipes, power steering cover and remove the headlight unit bolts (plugged access hole provided ? don?t drop the bolts!). My Skoda Octavia 2001 took seconds.
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My sympathies to paulb,it does make me wonder what is the use of having to carry spare bulbs abroad when it is a garage job to replace them?.
ndbw
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"make me wonder what is the use of having to carry spare bulbs abroad when it is a garage job to replace them?."
Maybe the froggies assume you will be driving a Cit on which they are easy to replace???? ;-)
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Phil
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Presumeably (as it's illegal to drive without most bulbs working) you could call the AA/RAC out if you noticed the bulb had blown (or perhaps got stopped by the Police) while on a journey?
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i dont think the breakdown companies would be too keen on replacing some bulbs by the roadside; especially on motorways etc.
Probably be happier to tow you to nearest garage if you only hold basic cover too ?
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The latest Fiesta has rear bulbs which can be replaced easily (as has been the norm with Fiestas for years), but in the very latest facelift models the rear lenses are now held in using cheap plastic clips. Previous models used a simple screw which could be undone using finger and thumb - no doubt it's cost cutting, but getting the lens to fit right once it's been off is a real job and it works loose over time, letting water in.
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Strange!
From thread "Ease of fitting a headlight bulb!" 24th Feb 06:
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.............. I bought a bulb from the local Ford dealer parts dept and asked the guy how easy it was to fit, "got to take the headlight out mate". Filled with trepidation fueled by stories about having to take VWs to dealers to have headlight bulbs changed I looked at the Haynes manual this morning, simple, pull out two pins, detach one electrical connector, the light unit comes out, put it on the bench, unclip the back of the unit, replace defective bulb, reverse procedure, 5 minute job.
Really a very logical design.
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Sorry forgot to mention that the grill is also removed though it is two twist clips so perhaps 15 seconds.
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IIRC the grill on the facelift model uses slightly different clips on the grill, otherwise it is the same procedure.
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I know the Mondeo Mk2 is no problem. It took me about 15 mins to change the headlight bulb - and it only took that long because I was stopping to recheck the manual at every stage.
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This also reinforces the fact that when replacing bulbs use decent quality ones so you're not doing the same job again in a few months......
What?, they're all the same aren't they? - Err no
All road legal bulbs you see for sale should be 'E' marked. If they're not then don't buy them as the seller is breaking the law. The E mark can be found on the base of the bulb. The majority of retail high street bulbs sold have E13 for Luxembourg which once a batch of bulbs from that manufacturer has been approved they can carry on using. This means a good batch can be approved and then any old carp from China or India can follow on.
The best bulbs to use are E1 marked bulbs. They are approved in Germany where annual batch testing takes place to much higher standards.
The difference in quality is especially important when replacing halogen bulbs as higher quality E1 ones have better light output, beam pattern, longer lasting filaments and therefore will improve your night time vision.
HTH
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Wow. Thanks C. I didn't think they were all the same but nor did I think the manufacturers were that devious.
The last bulb I changed was a tail light bulb in a Xantia. A doddle. Prior to that a headlight bulb in a Capri. A swine.
Still, at least that "sealed beam" racket got banged on the head.
JH
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Ease of changing light bulbs is something which the motoring journals should be commenting on in road tests. It is a lot more important than how many cup holders there are.
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As far as I've read, the new Fiesta and Focus both have long and tedious methods of removing the headlamp bulbs, making the 5 minute job of changing the bulb on my Escort almost enjoyable.
Reliant Robin, I can only put one theory on the torx problem (epidemic?). Pozi-drive screws need a maximum of 90 degrees of tool rotation before engagement, torx needs just 60. Multiply the fraction of a second saved over several hundred thousand operations and I'm sure you'll soon find some time-saving benefit.
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Mike Farrow
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I read this thread before feeling smug that in 7 years, none of my bulbs had gone.
By sheer coincidence, I've just noticeed that my left sidelight is out. The worst one. (I think you need to remove the battery to get at it - I can well believe that having just had a quick go now.)
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Why is it so difficult to change bulbs? Well, pick from the answers below.
Option 1...
Car manufacturers hate the thought of owners being able to perform any kind of maintenence on their cars. They would rather you visited them and gave them money to do it for you, so they deliberately make bulbs as hard to change as possible.
Option 2...
Car designers are incompetent. They design the car to be aesthetically pleasing, but forget about little things like rear access to the headlights, or rear light clusters - things you might actually need in the dead of night on an unlit single-carriageway when your left headlight stops working.
Anyway, mine aren't hard to change - they take about 3 minutes with no tools required. The battery is set back for easy access, and all the rear bulbs are mounted in bayonet-style holders which are accessed from inside the boot - good "boring" Japanese engineering. However, my girlfriend's Clio is a pig, because unbeknown to me, there's a bolt inside the boot, and undoing it makes the rear light cluster fall off onto the street so the bulbs can be changed. Very clever design(!!) I haven't even contemplated how long changing a headlight bulb would take.
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anybody remember mk2 cortinas that had rotted out ot their retaining cups and were swinging in front ot the wheel? those sealed beams were so much easier to change ;-O
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All external bulbs should be changeable simply, quickly and without tools - I don't see any good reason why manufacturers do not make this so (or revert to making this so, as it was once commonplace).
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"Why is it so difficult to change bulbs?"
Because the designer made it as simple as possible to assemble in on the production line. How many buyers choose a car based on whether they can change the bulbs on their own driveway?
If they did, and if car tests slated new cars because of poorly considered bulb-changing, you'd quickly see as much attention paid to it as to the aforementioned cupholders.
(Which reminds me, why doesn't the Brother's '04 Astra have cupholders, when his '00 Punto did...?)
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Greg, it's option 3
Manufactures are only intersted in build times, they make no thought of the aftermarket job what-so-ever! Designing the front end so that the bulbs are easily changed could add a few seconds onto the build time at the factory, to them that is just not accepable.
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No problems on my Hyundai.
Sidelight bulbs just click out, easy enough to get to (although the position of the battery makes the passenger-side light slightly more fiddly, ie 30 seconds instead of 15). Full headlight assembly is fixed via 2 screws IIRC so that's easy as well. Actually, I think the grille is only fixed via 4 or 5 screws as well so even if that needed to come off it's a trivial process.
The Nissan is the same. No excuse really for this sort of bad design.
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Somewhere out there is a Lexus GS with two brand new spare tail light bulbs.
I attempted to replace one, and it slipped from my fat fingers and hid inside the cluster housing never to be seen again, although it emitted a jolly rattle.
A week later I did exactly the same thing on the other side.
There is still a tapestry of invective that hangs like a miasma over the garage to this day.
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"How many buyers choose a car based on whether they can change the bulbs on their own driveway?"
My dad does - as a driving instructor a blown blub will mean a cancelled test and he has to pay. He has rejected a number of cars for teaching as he is unable to change the bulb in less than five minutes. When he gets a new car first thing he does is work out how the bulbs are changed, hence his problem with the new Fiesta rear light cluster I mentioned earlier.
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The whole situation is quite ridiculous. A bulb should be replaced in a few minutes with no special tools and from the engine bay. This is a safety factor and it is a disgrace that many manufacturers are preventing this and rather hypocritical when they drone on about ABS, ESP, NCAP ratings and the like. A failed bulb could contribute to an accident.
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Just changed the 2nd bulb in my Mazda Xedos (after 7 years ownership) - only a side-light but in all it took 5 mins including getting he book out to see which holder to pull out. Contrast that with replacing a reversing light bulb ( 40 mins) as the diagrams in the handbook did not bear any likeness to what had to be done.
This is a record for me as I have given up with a Honda for side & headlight bulbs as my fingers (or brain) were too thick to get enough grip to release the bulbs far less try and put the new ones back.
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It might be convenient for the manufacturer's purposes on the production line but it is an accumulation of just such minor irritations about car ownership that can tip the balance when the time comes for the customer to choose a replacement car. A hefty garage bill just to change a relatively cheap bulb is quite an irritation.
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Maybe they've already covered it, and I missed the programme, but I'd like to see occasional serious issues like this taken up on Top Gear. Obviously a lot of people contributing to this website feel very irritated about it. With the advent of complex engine management systems, there's not much the average bloke can tackle on his car nowadays other than blow up the tyres and change a bulb - and now we can't even change a bulb!
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My VW Bora's offside headlights and indicator bulbs are easy to change as there is enough access, but the nearside headlight unit's rear section is blocked by the battery.
I
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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All this talk about the difficulty of changing bulbs based on the OP's comment re a Mondeo though as posted on here earlier this year and repeated above I was pleased to find that the headlight bulb change on the Mondeo was a tool free 5 min job.
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Last autumn I had both headlight bulbs blow together on my Fiat Marea Weekend. Easy job to change bulbs, just unclip holder from headlight. Rear lights slightly more difficult as you need to use a socket set, but still very easy.
Some years ago my Father had a Volvo sports car (?480) and had an indicator light blow. Checked the manual and could not remove the unit. So took it to the local Volvo agent for them to do it. They tried and failed, in the end they had to remove the headlamp. Believe it or not they did not charge to do it - that was goodwill as it took them nearly an hour to do it.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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When I had a V plate Audi A4 as a temp company car (my Golf GTI 1.8T stolen), the bulb on the drivers side (is that off-side? I never know) was blown. Took into Audi and they said it was a workshop job. All free and no charge to the lease company even but various bits had to be removed to replace the bulb. Same happened on my later Passat.
Later a rear bulb went on the Passat. You had to do it by feel and the chap on the parts desk said he's do it.... but the CD changer was in front of the light in the boot so not easy. Have done a rear bulb on the Mondeo and it took about 3 minutes first time in the dark.
Does make one wonder about carrying bulbs in Europe.
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I've just bought 2 new headlight bulbs for the Almera, due to the terrible OE bulbs. Took about 10 minutes to fit both, in the dark, in Halfords carpark, with my only tool being a torch to see what I was doing. That's how all bulbs should be to change.
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" Maybe they've already covered it, and I missed the programme, but I'd like to see occasional serious issues like this taken up on Top Gear. Obviously a lot of people contributing to this website feel very irritated about it. With the advent of complex engine management systems, there's not much the average bloke can tackle on his car nowadays other than blow up the tyres and change a bulb - and now we can't even change a bulb!"
Mmmm. As far as I can see it doesn't involve driving round a racing track at high speed, and grinning insanely as the G-forces distort your face. So I can't see them taking an interest. It would mean doing work rather than play.
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Leif,
1. JC would get frustrated and take a very large hammer to it, the floppy haired one would take forever and possibly get the job done, the hamster would take it into Halfords and get them to do it for him.
2. this is why we need a motoring programme on BBC, as well as Top Gear.
JH
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