Check that you can live with the longer term maintenance implications of a Euro cat IV diesel. I decided against this and bought a car with the last of the 130 PS diesels (AWX engine). The heavier fuel consumption of the 2.0l engine adds insult to injury and as it's a bored out 1.9, it will be more prone to head gasket failure - the 1.9 is marginal in this respect as it is.
659.
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IMHO the 1.9 130 easily offers the best balance of performance and economy of the recent TDI engines, and even in my ibiza it's perfectly refined. The 2.0 is unarguably more free-revving, but it depends how often you want to get above 4000 revs for your own enjorment - it's certainly never necessity to do so with the 1.9.
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However, in the Golf the choice is 1.9 105bhp or 2.0 140bhp. There is no 130bhp 1.9TDi engine in the Golf.
I know two people with Golfs, with both engines. Both are happy with their choice. The guy with the 1.9 came out of a BMW 3-series and is very happy indeed and deliberately chose the 1.9 for the economy.
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My neighbour arrived home in his new Golf 1.9 TDi 105 manual five speed a couple of weeks ago (after stacking his company car the day before handing it in, oops!)
He chose it over the 2.0 TDi because (a) even in 1.9 form it significantly out punches the 1.6 Focus that went before it, (b) he drives high mileage and wanted outright economy, (c) he wanted to keep the emissions tax bracket low, and (d) he "didn't want any of that flappy paddle stuff".
I personally wouldn't choose a Golf anyway, but if I had no choice, I would have the "flappy paddle stuff" having tried a colleague's Audi A3 2.0TFSI in Sweden a few weeks back and loved it (the gearbox).
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I've got a 1.9Tdi Sport - brand six weeks ago and I love it.
You could argue that the SE is better specced but if you add the luxury pack to the Sport (for £195) you get all the spec of an SE but with better handling, better seats and a better looking car inside and out... in my opinon ;) The sport also has the six speed box, whereas the SE doesn't, I don't think.
The 1.9 is fine for me but my other half who usually drives a diesel Honda Accord found it a little bit underpowered. He does drive faster and harder than your average driver though. I do get great economy though - rarely below 44mpg round town and it stretches to 60+mpg on the motorway.
I had a bog standard brand new SDI for a week last week and it was the most awful car I've ever driven. I don't know why anyone would spend their money on one!
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IMHO the 1.9 130 easily offers the best balance of performance and economy of the recent TDI engines,
I agree. Every time I drive a car with this engine it impresses me as much as the first time. Apart from refinement, it's stonking in all respects. Particularly in accelerator response, which is normally where even the best diesels fall flat. It picks up instantly in response to even the smallest increase in pedal pressure.
I like it so much, I'd buy an older car just to get it. Wasn't particularly impressed with the 2.0 GT TDI I drove. Outright performance and refinement apart, I thought the 1.9 130 was a far nicer engine.
Cheers
DP
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Check that you can live with the longer term maintenance implications of a Euro cat IV diesel.>>
Hi, thanks for reply, can you expand on the above, was unaware that there are significantly higher maintenance costs.
I am probably inclining towards the 1.9, and this sounds like another negative factor?
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I presume you mean the cat issue? The 2.0TDi has a particulate filter to remove soot particles, this enables it to achieve Euro IV compliance. Some modern diesels with such a system require the filter to be changed at considerable expense (Citroens and Pugs, possibly others) at set intervals.
VAG cat does not require this replacement as a service item as it is self cleaning, but I'm sure it will fail eventually and need replacement - just as petrol catalytic converters fail. You need to consider how long you will be keeping the car to see if this is likely to be an issue.
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Don't know if it is still the case but when I looked at Golfs the 2.0TDi was only available in GT trim which IMHO had bone shudderingly rock hard suspension.
Maybe they have put it in the SE now which previously had the 1.9 ? Maybe I'm getting old .
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Don't know if it is still the case but when I looked at Golfs the 2.0TDi was only available in GT trim which IMHO had bone shudderingly rock hard suspension.
Thanks, interesting comment, I have driven the GT and I am inclined to agree that it is overfirm, and no the 2.0 TDi is still only for GT or Sport versions.
Re the cat and DPF as far as I can see from the price list and What Car listings, it is only the 170PS 2.0TDi that is Cat IV, not the 138PS version.
However comments so far are further inclining me to the 1.9 SE!
I am still undecided about the DSG auto box, it does seem to have enthusiastic support.
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I have to say it. You don't like the sport suspension of the Golf 2.0 TDi. Fair enough. Buy a Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDi, instead. Softer suspension than the GT Golf, same engine, better equipment, cheaper to buy. And not totally dissimilar residual values...or get a 1.9 TDi with the DSG for about the same price.
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"You don't like the sport suspension of the Golf 2.0 TDi. Fair enough. Buy a Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDi"
The biggest advantage is the dealers - any Skoda dealer the Gromit clan have dealt with (we're on our second Skoda now) have been very good to deal with. A forum search will quickly show that not all Backroomers who deal with VW dealerships have enjoyed the experience.
Oh, and the Octavia is more spacious - especially in the boot - and cheaper to maintain.
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Sadly I cannot share the dealer experience. The dealer Mum dealt with when considering a 2.0 TDi Octavia Elegance were not remotely interested in selling it - five days for a part exchange offer that was ridiculously low, didn't really know about any extras on the car or prices thereof, and categorically refused to even consider offering a discount "It's a new car madam, we don't discount our new cars." said in such a tone as we left.
She bought a Mondeo.
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"You don't like the sport suspension of the Golf 2.0 TDi. Fair enough. Buy a Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDi"
I thought the Octavia was a saloon not a hatchback?
I had ruled it out on that basis mainly, although the nearest dealer is a long way away, which is another consideration.
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Surprising how many people think that!
No, it's a hatchback (unless you get the estate).
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I've got a 54 reg 1.9 Gof S which is very basic but good enough for me. On the motorway it is nothing short of fab. Put your foot down at 90 and you can feel it pulling more and economy Birmingham to Minehead and back at 90 with aircon on (300miles), half a tank of diesel how good is that. Bad bit though it's been in to the dealer for a new clutch and flywheel and it needed the doors reshiming since i purchased it in January and found the dealer to be good. Going in for it's first service next friday at a different dealer as i brought it in solihull but live 3 miles to birmingham so going to brum for it's service. My opinion is the engine is smooth running compared to some diesels and pulls lovely even in town traffic go on buy it you know you want too!
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My Octavia estate 1.9 diesel is 6 weeks and 6400 miles in to it's paper round and as stated above pulls nicely and is loosening up as well
On a downer though, it could do with a 6th gear as at 90 it sits at 3000 revs and is a bit boomy at times.
If you can afford it you should go for the 2 litre diesel as the extra power is always handy to shake off Sprinter vans etc
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My two penneth....
I borrowed a 2.0 GT TDI demonstrator for a 24 hour test drive when I was considering changing my car. Here are the negatives:
- incredibly clunky gearbox, combined with a heavy clutch it felt like I was driving a Transit
- electric power steering (I believe); I really did not like the lack of real feel this has
- too much power(!) too low down the rev range, made for a very tiresome drive through stop-start traffic. It was 'all or nothing' with no smooth build-up of power
- didn't find the seats or driving position particularly comfortable.
At the end of the test drive, I was amazed to get back in my 5yr old Mk 2 Mondeo and find it better in all the above departments, except lacking in power. So for me, that was the end of buying a Golf of any sort, if it couldn't beat a tired Mondeo it wasn't worth having.
Anyway, just to balance it out a bit - the positives I recall were the good stereo, very decent Mway refinement for a small hatch, and, of course, the performance. I moaned in point 3 above, but when you were in the mood (and there were no corners) the engine provided terrific hot-hatch type fun. Not especially economical in hot-hatch mode though!
Incidentally, the other cars I drove before buying were the Accord and Avensis 2.2 diesels. Either were in a totally different league to the Golf, but I chose the Toyota. It could be said that I am not comparing like for like, but a Golf GT TDi with anything like a decent equipment level (ie options) is probably more expensive than either of these.
If I really wanted that VW engine, then I would seriously consider an Octavia. Although I haven't driven the latter I am sure it is a great car for the money, and so much better value than the Golf.
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I had a Seat Toledo 2003 with the old tech 1.9TDi 110 (non-PD). That gave around 50mpg in daily use, and I never had an issue with refinement, until I took delivery of my new leon FR TDI (2.0 170 bhp) week before last. The 2.0TDI (in 170 bhp guise at least) is considerably more refined and definitely much keener to rev. It's also scarily quick. I know what others mean about the all or nothing power delivery. For me, it's not that much of a change after the 1.9, and I think its a characteristic of VW diesels. I like the kick in the back sensation, but I can see how others would dislike it, especially if you are coming from a petrol engine. My 2.0 170 gives (with 900 miles on the clock) 42 mpg at the mo.
If you decide you want the 2.0 TDI, why not try out a Leon. Significantly cheaper to buy and better equiped that the Golf. Badge snobs need not apply though. But it is a hatch, closer in size to the Golf than the Octavia.
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too much power(!) too low down the rev range, made for a very tiresome drive through stop-start traffic. It was 'all or nothing' with no smooth build-up of power
That's why IMO DSG is a necessity - seemless changes at peak torque so no 'power on , power off' sensation.
Nomag - I'd appreciate an update on your motor as it gets run in. I'm considering the 170 2.0TDi in my replacement vehicle.
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I would agree that the gt tdi does take some getting used to at low revs, but once you have it is fantastic and flies from 2000rpm & above. Dont agree about the handling, the firmer suspension setup makes it infinately better than the Mk IV golfs but as many have said it cannot compete with the Focus etc. While firm it is still comfortable, certainly more so than the A3 sport I compared it to.
The 170ps is now available in the golf, but a superchip with give you 180bhp which is more than enough if you dont want the traction control continuosly kicking in. The DSG is a worthy (but £1500) option. Again, other cars offer similar/better equipment and/or value for money, but it is hard to beat the golf for residual value.>> too much power(!) too low down the rev range, made
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I would agree that the gt tdi does take some getting used to at low revs, but once you have it is fantastic and flies from 2000rpm & above. Dont agree about the handling, the firmer suspension setup makes it infinately better than the Mk IV golfs but as many have said it cannot compete with the Focus etc.
I had Mk IV Golf Estate. Not sure if it was 105 or 115 horses but it was nice and
torquey from 1500rpm with reasonable ride.
I don't believe there has to be a compromise between 'Flintstones' suspension (sold to the
public as a 'sports') and decent handling. You can have both. It's just that
manufacturers build cars that are taller and taller; then you get a Golf plus which is
taller again. Guess what, the ride stiinks.
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Surprising how many people think that! No, it's a hatchback (unless you get the estate).
Many thanks tunacat,
I have been to look at at the Octavia today, (unfortunately nearest dealer is 20 odd miles away), and as you say , excellent car, huge boot, and seems very well put together. Am arranging test drive, and other half needs to see also.
Only slight minus is rear headroom is less than Golf (important because of tall son)
I will let you know how it goes.
Still can't decide which engine and gearbox!! (With Octavia you don't have to have Sport suspension to get 2.0 TDi engine.)
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Leigh - try an Octavia estate. Not much more expensive and it'll have better headroom in the back for your son.
Skoda are putting the 170 bhp TDI engine in the Octavia VRS (hatch or estate) in a few weeks' time and that will be definitely worth a look: but the 140 bhp version goes very well and can be had with the DSG gearbox if you want it.
I can't think why VW won't offer the 2.0 TDI in SE spec: there are a lot of people put off by both the hard ride and the inflated price of the GT TDI.
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