ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
Mods - Not in IHAQ because of motoring content.

Does any BRer have experience of an ISOfix "0+1" child seat, please?

I can find ISOfix "0+" seats, ISOfix "1" seats, and non-ISOfix "0+1" seats, but not any ISOfix "0+1" seats.

For clarity; in this context "0+" means from birth to 13KG whereas "0+1" means from birth all the way through to 18KG (approx four years of age).

I wrote to Britax who replied to say that in their case the anomaly exists because of timing; their non-ISOfix "First Class Si" permits rearward facing for babies to nine months and forwards facing from nine months to four years, but the ISOfix equivalent is still at the design stage; it will arrive in production too late for me (well, for the twins, to be precise) and I can't find any other ISOfix "0+1" seat.

If push comes to shove we will buy two ISOfix bases and two ISOfix "0+" seats now, then later on two ISOfix "1" seats, but it would be good to buy ISOfix "0+1" seats from the outset and be done with it.


TVM.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Stuartli
Is this the type you require?

tinyurl.com/e8x3k

Not cheap...:-(






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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
Thanks for trying to help, Stuartli, but unfortunately not; the seat is for 9 months to 12 years as opposed to birth to four years. I clicked the other links from this one and those seats aren't the required age band either. Given that non-ISOfix "0+1" seats exist it seems strange to be struggling to find an ISOfix one. Cheers!
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Murphy The Cat
I know that this is NOT the seat that you are looking for, but I've just bought a Jane Indy Team Plus seat which is ISOFIX for ages 9 months -12 years (class 2+3).

shop.babyworld.co.uk/DisplayDetail.aspx?prodid=977...0

MTC
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Stuartli
In view of the fact that my VW Bora (November 1999 with 2000 year specs) has ISOFIX fittings, all the firms involved would seem to have had more than ample time to design your required type of seat.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
In view of the fact that my VW Bora (November 1999
with 2000 year specs) has ISOFIX fittings, all the firms involved
would seem to have had more than ample time to design
your required type of seat.


I thought exactly the same thing; the only explanation I can think of is that child seat manufacturers are running a business, hence expect a solid return on investment. Because ISOfix normally gets an "ISO what?" response if you mention it to Joe Public and until February this year it was not mandatory for cars sold in the EU to have the mounting points, there was little business reason to develop a seat that was actually going to reduce sales (one "0+1" seat instead of two seats, a "0+" and a "1"). Now ISOfix is likely to become de rigeur (probably mandatory in time if Brussels has a say) and competition amongst manufacturers will increase, perhaps the business case is there.

Anyway, I still can't find the seat I want and the silence here (should that be "hear", ha ha) is relatively deafening, so will reluctantly shop for a pair of ISOfix bases to clip to the mounting points already in the car and a pair of ISOfix "0+" seats for the time being.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Murphy The Cat
have you asked Isofix why they don't offer a product ? I can think of a few reasons why not, but I'm struggling to explain them properly. I think that the major thing is that the structural requirements for a seat for a tiny tot and going to be a lot different for a child weighing 18 kg. Remember that a tiny tot has to travel backwards facing and tha a tot can't travel forwards in a child seat until it is able to sit upright, unsupported for over 30 mins - so a 0+1 child seat would need ISFIX mountings on the front and the back.

I think that I've explained that right !!

MTC
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - daveyjp
With Isofix is not time it's cost in certification. The seat has to be tested on every make and model of car before it's Isofix certified that's why so few Isofix seats are available, the fixing is an internationally recognised design, the design and location of seats isn't. We were looking for seats six months ago and back then the number of Isofix 0 seats was 1, but it didn't fit our pram chassis. We had to go with a belt secured baby seat (which is now available with an Isofix base option) and will move on to an Isofix seat when our daughter is too large for the baby seat.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - IanW1977
So is the ISOFix the only way to connect a Car seat then if you have them aas Standard in your car ?
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
So is the ISOFix the only way to connect a Car
seat then if you have them aas Standard in your car
?


No, but as I have the mounting eyelets fitted already in the gap between rear seat back and seat squab, I want to take advantage of them and not fit a conventional seat held in place by the adult seat belts.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Red Baron
I hear your original question, but must warn against buying a 0+1 seat. I read a lot of Which? reports and in the last 3½ years have gone through similar thought processes as I have two small children.

At 0, the baby faces (mostly) rearwards as this is the BEST way for it to be secured. At group 1, the seat faces forward.

The two systems have quite different methods of affixment to the car. If you do find a seat of this type, then it won't be good at either task, but simply Okay. Don't imagine that you will save money either. The lack of competition for a 0+1 means that it will cost a lot.

As for ISOFIX itself...they same type of affixment has NOT been adopted by each manufacturer so you would have to still check that a particular ISOFIX seat fits the car in question. Indeed, in numerous surveys (of child car seats) the conventional affixment type score just as well as the ISOFIX type.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - No FM2R
*Everything* Red Baron said plus.....

It will be a pain moving your seats to other cars - not just cars you may buy, but perhaps temporary rental cars, or anybody else's cars if they should need/want to carry your children - and it will happen more than you think - grandparents, nannies, friends etc. etc.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
Thanks for all the comments.
Appreciated.

Yes, I am aware thanks that there are universal and semi-universal mounting options and also as I wrote earlier that "0+" seats are mounted rearwards and "1 and greater", forwards. What gave me the ISOfix "0+1" idea though was reading reports that highly rated the non-ISOfix Britax First Class Si "0+1" seat despite it being "multi purpose".

Having learned that we aren't going to get a pair of "0+1" ISOfix seats from any manufacturer, the Britax Cosy Tot that's in pole position for "0+" usage is certified for use with the V70 that we own. The problem is that the only ISOfix "1" seat made by Britax, the Duo, is *NOT* certified for use with the V70 (only the XC90) meaning if we chose the Cosy Tot for "0+" usage, we would need to buy the "1" seats from a different manufacturer along with two new ISOfix bases and attendant cost. So, two kids have then spawned four ISOfix bases and four ISOfix seats by the time they are nine months old, to the tune of a grand or so cost wise...

So, where are we now? Trying to find a single manufacturer that can supply two ISOfix bases, two "0+" seats, and two "1" seats, all certified for use with a P2 platform (current shape) V70 and where the "1" seats can re-use the bases previously fitted to the "0+" seats. If we fail, then it's likely to be bye-bye ISOfix.

Regarding moving seats between cars, this shouldn't be a pain unless I've missed a point; all ISOfix seats I have seen also mount conventionally with an adult seat belt too, I believe with the ISOfix base removed. In fact this is vital for us as my V70 has ISOfix mounting points but my wife's 306 doesn't and can't be adapted; her car will cart the kids around for local journies with the V70 being used for longer ones and when we travel as a family. As I very rarely carry rear seat passengers in the Volvo we will simply leave the ISOfix bases fitted. When they need removing, this is easy and they can live in the boot.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - daveyjp
Try another manufacturer - Maxi Cosi and Bebe Confort are two to look at. The Bebe Confort Isofix seat is the one we are looking at to replace the Maxi Cosi Cabrio we currently use. I agree these things aren't cheap - Makro are currently selling a seat belt fix group one seat for less than £30.

Moving the baby seats from car to car is an issue and if this is something you will be doing on a regular basis take both cars when you go and buy your seats. Some seat belts aren't long enough, some seats are so large they won't allow full seat adjustment for driver and passenger.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Murphy The Cat
SiB

are you CERTAIN taht the Britax Duo Isofix seat is not comaptible with your car ? I only ask because a big featire of the seat (at one stage anyway !) was that it could fit any car that was fitted with ISOFIX mounts. It's not perhaps a peculiarity of the webiste that if doesn't "certify" the seat for a V70 because say the seatbelt (that you wouldn't use anyway) isn't long enough.

I amy be wrong, but for your peace of mind / pocket it may be worth looking into.

MTC
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Murphy The Cat
I found this article on Volvo V70 & child seats that may be of interest & help.

tinyurl.com/pcqfv

MTC
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Big Bad Dave
SjB just my two cents worth.

The car mag I work for recently invested a fair bit of money testing 8 or so different child seats at some German CrashTest centre. Isofix didn't always come out best, I think some of the top scorers were traditional seat-belt fixing. Apparently they give an extra "de-celleration zone" for the infant before the seat belt lock kicks in. Something like that...
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
SjB just my two cents worth.
The car mag I work for recently invested a fair bit
of money testing 8 or so different child seats at some
German CrashTest centre. Isofix didn't always come out best, I think
some of the top scorers were traditional seat-belt fixing. Apparently they
give an extra "de-celleration zone" for the infant before the seat
belt lock kicks in. Something like that...


Thanks, BBD!
I hope life is good.
I'm having a draught of Warsaw work at the moment so the beer (no pun intended!) will have to wait a while.

Just spotted your post, which is interesting to read; although I didn't assume "ISOfix automatically means the best", I did think about belt stretch but as a disadvantage for non-ISOfix seats; I'd assumed that adult seat belt stretch would be counter productive to retaining a child seat as (a) it will vary from car to car and installation to installation so is not a consistent quality and (b) an ISOfix child seat manufacturer would have calibrated such stretch in to the child belt design so the child will benefit from the deceleration advantage anyway.

On a related subject, one of the reasons I want to use ISOfix is repeatability of installation; an ISOfix seat is either installed correctly or it's not installed at all, whereas I have seen non-ISOfix seats in many friends' cars installed differently depending on whether husband or wife did it and whether it was a rush job in the rain, or not! ;-)
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Big Bad Dave
"seat belt stretch"

That's the term I was looking for SjB. You've prompted me to dig out the article. They used a very high speed camera to film the seat as it was "accellerated away from the impact point - a kind of reverse impact. It's filmed against a backboard marked with various zones, good to bad, of where the infant's head and neck ought to be during the impact.

Chicco Key came out on top, then Maxi Cosi Isofix but the fascinating one is the third placed Ramatti Venus??? which has a seat belt stretch of some 20cm. I can only conclude that they haven't taken into account how close the seat in front may be...

Looking forward to a beer, I take it the twins are on their way?
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
Did they test the Recaro Profi Plus and Expert Plus seats, perchance, please, BBD?

Yup twins due end of October but from their activity and the size increase of the missus they look more liable to a jump start than Nico will be on his first F1 race from pole!
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - Big Bad Dave
"Those names don't ring a bell SjB, but I'll check tomorrow when I'm back at work
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
Thanks, MTC.

Our V70 has the mounting points already, and at last I have found one manufacturer able to supply both seat types, sharing the same ISOfix base, and certified for use in ISOfix mode with our V70; thanks to a very helpful and knowledgeable sales lady, Recaro came up trumps with their Young Profi Plus ("0+" group at £90), Young Expert Plus ("1" group at £150), and ISOfix base (£90). For twins this adds up to £660 (of which £360 is outlay now, £300 to follow when nine months old) so still expensive but lasting for four years and not as much as it was looking like being; some other ISOfix seats are £200 as well as requiring two sets of bases.

We have a local Recaro agent so will take both the V70 and 306 (thanks for the tip daveyjp) along for a trial fitting shortly.

Thanks again to all who have shared advice.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
are you CERTAIN etc etc


This surprised me too, MTC, and the Britax website contradicts what others have told me.
I have therefore written to Britax and will post the outcome for the benefit of others, even if we end up choosing seats from a different manufacturer (as looks likely, see below).

ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - SjB {P}
see below).


Above, actually it seems, in flat view mode!
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - paulb {P}
I wrote to Britax who replied to say that in their
case the anomaly exists because of timing; their non-ISOfix "First Class
Si" permits rearward facing for babies to nine months and forwards
facing from nine months to four years


I know it's not what you were after, but we have a First Class Si in the Mondeo and once correctly attached to the seatbelt (via a very chunky tempered steel bracket) it is extremely stable; when small B grows out of his badge-engineered Graco thing in Mrs B's Panda, we shall be buying another. It is extremely hard to remove the seatbelt from the bracket deliberately, so I would think that there is little prospect of it coming out by itself.

Before small B arrived we looked at all this Isofix business and quickly reached the conclusion that the seats provided by manufacturers were horribly overpriced compared with equivalents made by Britax and the like, and we weren't convinced that they were necessarily better. The fact that our Panda is not one of the models that has Isofix fittings meant that we had to buy a non-Isofix seat anyway.

My own view FWIW is that a seatbelt designed to restrain an adult weighing 220 lb (ahem) ought to be able to deal effectively with a 15 lb car seat containing a 7-month-old 20 lb baby.
ISOfix 0+1 - does it exist? - daveyjp
Slightly O/T but car seat related:

This month one of the baby magazines my wife buys has a feature on the new car seat laws - if your child is under 4 foot 6 inches tall and aged under 11 from September they still need to be in a suitable car seat.

The feature is quite extensive and gives tips on different car seats, fixing mechanisms and tips for buying. Two tips are - never buy a second hand seat - you don't know if it's damaged and if you buy from a distance you don't know if it's suitable for your car. Always try a car seat in your car to ensure it can be fitted safely. All good stuff.

You then turn over two pages and what is the competition prize? A brand new car seat! Not a voucher for one, but an actual car seat.

Surely offering the seat as a prize flies directly in the face of the advice they are giving in the article two pages before and in my mind could be considered irresponsible and possibly negligent. If the competition winner fits this seat in their car thinking it's suitable and in an accident found not to be are the magazine liable?

My wife has e-mailed her concerns to the magazine in question so we'll see what they say.
 

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