The deformable central crash barrier is designed to deform (sprise that) and gently guide errant vehicles back into the traffic flow it came from and in the same direction. Generally it works, as does the new high tensile wires, that do the same job. This crash barrier is also good for lorries and does an excelent job on keep traffic from entering the other carriageway.
It does however fail to keep high centre of gravity 4x4s going the same way, and with 4 wheel drive they tend to "climb" the barrier. Another reason for the conrcrete barrier is that by the very way it works, deformable barriers move quite a distance in keeping the car in place. If your opposing lane is *very* close there is no room for this operating margin.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>as does the new high tensile wires, that do the same job.
I keep looking at those and thinking that even a glancing blow would be deadly on a bike.
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The high tensile wires which were installed a few years ago on the A12 near Witham have now been removed and replaced by conventional steel section crash barriers.
I wonder why?
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>>as does the new high tensile wires, that do the same job. I keep looking at those and thinking that even a glancing blow would be deadly on a bike.
Yes, indeed, the wires guide you nicely to the next nasty looking post ready to rip you to bits. The standard barrier has the posts on the other side, well out of harms way.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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These tensile wires are lethal in the wrong hands (i.e. a certain Highway Authority). I know of two serious accidents on a stretch. In one case the wire hadn't been cortrectly tensioned with catastrophic consequences. Not mentioning any names or areas - rant off.
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They did this alon a motorway coming out of Sau Paulo it is continous for hundred or so KM's it effectivelly cut of wild live from travelling across their normal routes,animals get onto the motorway and cannot get of and they get killed.Safety wise they may work the main reason for use is cost much much cheaper than the standard metal barrier when costed over its lifespan.
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>>They did this alon a motorway coming out of Sau Paulo it is continous for hundred or so KM's
Which motorway coming out of Sao Paulo ? (p.s. note the "Sao"). Even the Mariginal (Ring Road) is not consistently concrete. I cannot think of any motorway which is a constant anything for 100km (or even close), never mind the central reservation.
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Just such a concrete creation graces the western (Heathrow, M3) arc of the M25.
On 4 or 5 lanes of motorway in each direction you absolutely would not want HGVs or anything else vaulting the central barrier.
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When was the last time you went down the Aerton Senna or the new road up to Rio Grande
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they are better for protecting bridges from accident damage as well ,we have lots of them up here in sunny yorkshire.
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As the old fellah says - bridges and overpasses. ISTR mostly done as a result of the Selby rail crash up here where bloke fell asleep and went off the motorway onto the railway.
Everyone shouted that this shouldn't be able to happen so roads are being cocooned in concrete by the nanny planners.
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About 3 weeks ago. Why when were you there ?
By "the Aerton Senna" I assume that you mean SP070 which is called Ayrton Senna at the Sao Paulo end only, and does not have a concrete central reservation except for the piece running from the Marginal to the Airport which is about 7km or so
And by "Rio Grande" do you mean..da Serra, ...do Sul or ...do Norte, none of which have a concrete partition other than the occasional pieces here or there.
I think you should understand that I havea Brasilian passport, a Brasilian daughter, I speak portuguese and have an apartment in Sao Paulo and have lived there on and off for some 12 years.
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And while I think of it, you never did respond to all those requests for proof of your "definitive" and repeated statements that Shell Optimax caused engines all over europe to blow up and that it was going to be withdrawn. I don't suppose you have it handy now do you, since you always maintained that you had some ?
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I have seen sketches showing how they are going to fit an extra lane onto some motorways - part of it is replacing the armco with a concrete wall so the opposing outside lanes can be closer together!
Concrete is better at protecting you if the accident is on the other side but I guess not so good if you are the one hitting it!
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Concrete is better at protecting you if the accident is on the other side but I guess not so good if you are the one hitting it
Suprisingly not. The reason for armco style bariers is to absorb some of the momentum of the wayward car, and guide back to the road from whence it came in roughly the same direction. The assumes the majority of the kisses it receives are side swipes. Its pretty poor at this when it gets a head on 90 degrees job, deforms somewhat but flings the car crazily back into the path of anything following on.
Some (not all i admit) of the concrete barriers are shaped at the bottom with a curve to gather the front wheel and wing and guide the car back onto the same path from whence it came but with no deforming does not absorb any energy, ie kiss it at 60 mph and it will guide you back at 59mph.
Hit the concrete wall at 90 degrees however, it wont fling you back, wont absorb anything and you are the mercy of your crumple zones and airbags. The chances of a 90 degree angle of attack however are slim.
You have to bear in mind, the primary function of any central crash barrier or lane seperator is to stop you killing 15 poor innocents coming the other way, not to stop you killing yourself.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The link which aahbarnes posted was very informative and interesting, but one point in particular caught my eye. The metal barriers are apparently designed only to contain a vehicle of up to 1.5 tonnes, which is of course enough for most cars ... but not for an SUV (a Land Rover Discovery, for example, weighs 2.5 tonnes).
I can't help but feel that there's a bit of an irony here. It's well-enough established that the weight and shape of SUVs makes them more dangerous to other road-users than an ordinary car, but the buyers of these vehicles tend to prioritise their own perceived safety gain (which in any case is largely illusory).
I wonder what it would do to SUV sales if they all carried a prominent warning that these things were not protected by motorway safety barriers?
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Is there no topic too distantly related to deny an opportunity to malign and stereotype SUV drivers?
>>The metal barriers are apparently designed only to contain a vehicle of up to 1.5 tonnes, which is of course enough for most cars ... but not for an SUV
How appropriate then, since apparently the only good SUV driver is a dead one.
>>I wonder what it would do to SUV sales if they all carried a prominent warning that these things were not protected by motorway safety barriers?
Give it a rest.
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Well I disagree with No wheels on nearly every breath she breathes, and it has to be said that the article about concrete barriers where it rubbished steel barriers (likening them to hawthorn bushes? perlease) and saying they will only hold back 1.5 tones?- a steel barrier will keep most 38ton HGVs in check most of the time.
However (and am no SUV beater) 4x4 SUVs DO climb central steel barriers like no other vehicle. A certain well known figures swears that a Range Rover saved his family's life. He has no answer to the question "what was it doing on the other side of the M3 upside down in the face of oncoming traffic anyway"
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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In response to NowWheels:
Postscript:
>>the metal barriers are apparently designed only to contain a vehicle of up to 1.5 tonnes,
The max GVW of an Almera is just over 1.7 tonnes - so think carefully before taking any passengers and luggage on a motorway!
I wonder what it would do to Almera sales if they all carried a prominent warning that use as a family vehicle may mean that motorway safety barriers will not properly protect the occupants ;-)
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Manatee, I know that some people don't like being reminded that SUVs are more dangerous than other cars, but there is plenty of evidence that it is the case. I simply noted that fact (and the reluctance of SUV drivers to consider the consequences) and pointed a further problem which I hadn't seen discussed before ... and as for your rather excitable moan that is to "malign and stereotype SUV drivers", they do that themselves quite adequtely.
In response to NowWheels: Postscript: >>the metal barriers are apparently designed only to contain a vehicle of up to 1.5 tonnes, The max GVW of an Almera is just over 1.7 tonnes - so think carefully before taking any passengers and luggage on a motorway!
Ordinary cars are getting obscenely heavy, aren't they? :(
But the kerb weight is only 1200kg, so there's plenty of capacity without reaching the limit. It does mean that it's unwise to carry five people and a pallet of bricks, but that's hardly newsworthy.
However, even an empty Discovery 3 is too heavy for the barrier.
I wonder what it would do to Almera sales if they all carried a prominent warning that use as a family vehicle may mean that motorway safety barriers will not properly protect the occupants ;-)
Hopefully, it'd drive even more buyers away and help keep Almera prices at their current delightfully low level. :)
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In response to NowWheels post above...
>>your rather excitable moan that is to "malign and stereotype SUV drivers",
It was a groan, not a moan!
I am not going to dispute anything you say NW- experience tells me you will never give up.
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I am not going to dispute anything you say NW- experience tells me you will never give up.
Do you think that people you disagree with should be obliged to give up?
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I think you should understand that I havea Brasilian passport, a Brasilian daughter, I speak portuguese and have an apartment in Sao Paulo and have lived there on and off for some 12 years.
He is no pretty sight in his thong on the beach however, has the looks of ronaldo and football skills of ronaldo's hamster.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Nice to have the old Mark back.
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Still can't spell Brazilian though can he?!
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One other advantage is that, being higher, they may help to keep opposing traffic headlights from blinding you when some twazzock decides that full beam is OK, "it's a motorway"
V
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twazzock aka advanced drivers, totally acceptable under certain conditions...
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"twazzock aka advanced drivers, totally acceptable under certain conditions..."
I was talking about being blinded by another driver. Under which conditions would it be a good idea for someone (even an advanced driver) to blind an oncoming driver with full beam?
V
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Good word twazzock.
Did I press the wrong button?
Not being blinded and dazzled by stuff coming the other way is good.
But Surrey council now puts up silly wooden things on roundabouts so you can't see what's coming until you get up to the line.
I'm longing for some fine fellows with cans of kerosene to get rid of these things. They are Livingstonian and moronic. What they mean is that instead of seeing what's coming and being able to slot through it at the roundabout, you have to almost stop so that, of course, you have to wait for a bigger gap that you can accelerate into.
What is the matter with people? What makes tham think that when there's much too much traffic the thing to do is hamper it and slow it down?
Enough to make an objective person think of emigrating to a country with wide open spaces and no laws to speak of. There's a wide choice.
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Enough to make an objective person think of emigrating to a country with wide open spaces and no laws to speak of. There's a wide choice.
Indeed, for wide open spaces you could choose Iraq. Or lack of traffic perhaps Zimbabwe. Want me to send you a postcard?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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my FIL with lorry driver in front frantically flashing rear fog lights :-(
JH
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One of my old customers (Bridon Ropes) makes the wired solution, called BriFen for obvious reasons.
As a motorcyclist I woudn't like to hit it (or a concrete or ARMCO barrier for that matter) but I have seen it used in the Czech Republic and Sweden for reasons other than containing vehicles on one side of the road; it is quick and easy to remove when converting a motorway to a runway in time of war.
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I appreciate that concrete barriers are more effective at preventing vehicles from crossing carriageways, but don't allow vehicles to cross carriageways for other more controlled reasons e.g. if a motoway is closed due to a major incident the police have been known to dismantle the barriers to allow the road to be cleared. It can also be achieved with a few spanners and not a pneumatic drill!
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"don't allow vehicles to cross carriageways for other more controlled reasons "
The French don't seem to have a problem with this. Many of their motorways have the concrete central barriers and they seem to be in sections so pneumatic drills not necessary. Also, with the concrete barriers the "carriageway" ie, tarmac or concrete seems to go right up to the central barrier which seems to be built "on top " of the carriageway. on British motorways, the central barrier seems to be separated from the carriageway by gravel, bushes or other non made up areas which mean more work if vehicles are to be taken from one carriageway to the other. The froggies just seem to remove a section or three of concrete and guide you through the gap - no need to lay more concrete or tarmac.
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Phil
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On a slightly different note, I see that more and more roundabouts seem to have these "half size" concrete walls on them instead of standard kerb stones. They are higher than kerb and they look solid. Just the right height to rip the axle off the car if you hit it I would imagine!
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>>has the looks of ronaldo and football skills of ronaldo's hamster.
i.e. better looking than Rooney and better at football than Lampard.
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please spell the great mans name right.Its Ayrton Senna.I cant remember looking at the crash barriers,but stylesspent most of my time driving over there enjoying their crazy driving style.Nearly as bad as Mexico city- craaaazy!
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The main advantage of the Jersey barrier (first used in New Jersey in the '50s) is that you don't have to cone-off half a mile of outside lane on both carriageways for repairs every time it's hit.
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Also, I seem to remember they're better at obscuring the lights of oncoming cars, at least if you're driving an ordinary car where you sit down low.
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>>Didn't realise a huge concrete wall could be safer!
I can remember being held up on the M25 some years ago when a HGV crossed the carriageway and broke through the crash barrier. As it passed across the opposite side a car went underneath and sliced the roof off, killing both driver and passenger. I hope these barriers will stop accidents like this one ever happeneing again.
These barriers might not be pretty, but I would love all motorways to be divided with them. Then at least I know I am safe from other rogue drivers on the other carriageway.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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The other bonus is if you are unfortunate to hit the concrete barrier you won't be sent a bill for repairing it, as our friends did who damaged two lengths of metal barrier following an aquaplaning accident.
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Then at least I knowI am safe from other rogue drivers on the other carriageway.
'Other' rogue drivers... Hmmmmm... quite agree on reflection AD, I don't want to be at risk from other rogue drivers either.
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Then at least I knowI am safe from other rogue drivers on the other carriageway.
Yes I would also agree with that. My original thoughts were that I wouldn't like to drive into a reinforced concrete wall at 75mph. Bizarrely enough there are quite a few skidmarks on that stretch of M5 that do go at 90 degrees into the central reservation, or off the carriageway the other side.
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The M180 now has concrete barriers installed for part of it's length. The problem about not being able to take the barrier down should it be necessary has been thought of. At about 1 mile intervals a section of the wall appears to be bolted in. Pity they didn't spend the money getting rid of that awful concrete surface instead!
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They should make them 10ft tall to stop rubberneckers! In seriousness though, aesthetics apart I think they're a great idea. Trucks just run armco barrier over, and as a biker, I would still rather hit a concrete wall than have my legs or head catch one of the supports for a crash barrier. This happened to a biker on the M40 a few years back - let's just say without going into gory detail that they picked him up from more than one location.
The tensioned wire ones should be banned altogether. Lethal.
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Aint that the A180 that has the concrete road surface? Apparantly when it was laid it was done in the wrong direction; bit like the nap on a snooker table.
If you drive down it the wrong way its much quieter. Did that BEFORE it was opened.
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Fullchat
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Longish section appeared on the M1 in South Leics.
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Well I couldn't believe my eyes today.
Driving along the M8/A8 going through Coatbrdge where they have a high concrete central barrier.
On the grass verge on the left are 2 guys and a female. One guy has a toddler in his arms, and the girl has a folded up buggy. As I pass, I see them running across the carriageway towards the centre. I hope to God they made it, and managed to climb over the barrier, and get to the other side. Whilst carrying a toddler. As traffic passes at 70mph +.
Where was Darwin when you needed him.
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On the subject of barriers, there are two spots on dual carriageways near where I work that have appeared in the last 2 weeks. Vehicles have hit the wiggly steel central barrier, distorted it and knocked out 3 or 4 of the support posts. The council or highways agency have put a few cones in front of the damaged sections. Whats the point of that? As if to say, "if you're going to lose all control at 70mph and crash, dont do it at this particular point, hit it a bit further along."
Joking apart, one of these impact points has been left unrepaired for nearly 2 weeks, and while its unlikely, if a car did hit it in a weakened position, it could go through.
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Bikers lobbied hard against the wires. Even the BMF and MAG put aside their difference and joined forces (unheard of) but to no avail.
Whilst I would prefer not to hit a concrete wall at least I could bounce off it instead of just being cut in half.
Things terrify me just looking at them.
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How does the concrete wall work on the trans pennine m62 it has to have wires cos of the snow will they keep the wire ?
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How are you getting on with your courier service to Lecce and why are you shouting at us? - {His shouting has been amended - DD}
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hi
long term it is a two man journey as i said a friend has been driving so hours have not been too bad, weather hot as no air con, fan on full blast, customs have been fine italian drivers are another species i wonder what the road death numbers in italy are undertaking, overtaking, bends jesus i will never think driving in the uk is bad again,
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I only realised that the A3 from Painshill to Guildford has what looks like the tensile wires - as I was hurtling up the outside lane at 'slightly over' the prescribed limit. Would not like to be anywhere near those things if I have an off, vicious looking things.
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