Morning all. Long time no post from me.
A friend of mine drives a company car, and last week the company received a request from the police to identify the driver of the car. Accompanying the request was a leaflet showing an overhead gantry, displaying a red cross, with the question "Do you know what this means?". It would appear that my friend had been spotted driving in a lane so marked on the M60 recently.
It looks as though they intend to issue points and a fine. So your thoughts on the legality of this please.
As far as I am aware (I don't have a copy of the highway code to hand), these signs are advisory only. Unlike the ones on the M25 and M40, there is no bounding red circle, making it an instruction.
I can think of many reasons that she could give for not obeying the sign, besides it not being an instruction. She could have spotted the sign and was looking for a safe gap to merge into. She could have not spotted the sign when in lane 1 with a high sided vehicle to her right, and then moved over into lane 3 eventually. etc etc
Truth is, she doesn't recall passing under such a sign. Until any NIP arrives we don't know what they are going after, but I bet they haven't kept the evidence. My take is that these signs are often kept on after the event, that they are taken with a pinch of salt. As I came to work this morning there was a sign displaying "CONGESTION J7" on the M56. It was 0430 hours, and the motorway was deserted. About 11 hours out of date.
I'll get back to lurking again now.
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There's a 3 lane tidal flow road in Lincoln with these signs and people have been done for driving in a forbidden lane.
tinyurl.co.uk/4o5z
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L\'escargot.
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The Matrix sign involved is Diagram 6031 - red cross with corner red flashers and when displayed on a gantry over the carriageway, they shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic (other than vehicles being used in the circumstances described in regulation 36(1)(b)Emergency services) proceeding in the traffic lane immediately below the signals shall not proceed beyond them in that lane
Where a matrix sign is placed beside the carriageway of a road the warning, requirement, restriction, prohibition or speed limit conveyed by the sign shall apply to all vehicular traffic facing that sign and proceeding along the carriageway beside which the sign is placed.
Where a matrix sign mounted on a gantry or other structure is so placed that a traffic lane of the carriageway passes directly beneath it, the warning, requirement, restriction, prohibition or speed limit conveyed by the sign shall apply only to vehicular traffic facing that sign and proceeding along the traffic lane passing directly beneath it.
By virtue of Traffic Signs General Directions 2002 it makes it an offence to fail to conform to a Traffic Sign and as such a Notice of Intended Prosecution has to be served within 14 days (ignoring date of offence) on driver or where not kinow the Reg Keeper of the vehicle involved. Mention is made of a Section 172 (name and shame driver) Form being received and NOIP usually accompanies the 172. Once driver ID then there will be a Conditional Offer made i.e. pay £60 and 3 points on Licence and matter dealt with without Court. Or if facts disputed a Court appearance can be elected and matter contested.
Would appear that incident has been captured by CCTV camera.
dvd
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Should have added that Gantry signs prior to the Red Cross would have advised to leave that lane well in advance i.e.
<==== <==== XXX
dvd
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On a number of occasions quite recently I have been on the M60 around Oldham and the gantry signs have been flashing with lane closed, 40mph etc etc. After about six of these things the next one says 'END', but there has been absolutely no disruption to traffic. The last time we were presented with the red cross everyone duly moved over only to be presented with no lanes closed at all. If the signals actually told the truth ALL the time more people may actually obey them.
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On a number of occasions quite recently I have been on the M60 around Oldham and the gantry signs have been flashing with lane closed, 40mph etc etc. After about six of these things the next one says 'END', but there has been absolutely no disruption to traffic. The last time we were presented with the red cross everyone duly moved over only to be presented with no lanes closed at all. If the signals actually told the truth ALL the time more people may actually obey them.
You should try the M25! You often get 40 or 50 speed limits flashing when the motorway is (almost) clear as a bell. Lack of confidence in these signs does tend to undermine their authority.
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You often get 40 or 50 speed limits flashing when the motorway is (almost) clear as a bell. Lack of confidence in these signs does tend to undermine their authority.
And if you actually slow to 40mph you'll get rear-ended by the rest of the traffic still doing 80. I obeyed one of these signs on the M4 with a 30mph limit, it was terrifying! With visibility of around a mile I did twice the posted limit of 60mph and felt safer. As you, I never saw any reason for the reduced limit.
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Presumably it is possible to ask for photographic evidence?
The photograph will need to show that the sign has been passed (ie a single snap shot is insufficient), and the vehicle is in the lane in question. This will need a sequence of pictures, unless it is a 'second sign', combined with time stamped information regarding time of offence and time of switching on of signs, and an indication that all the preceeding signs were working at the time!
Or can the offence be recorded in real time by a police officer watching a monitor???
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pmh (was peter)
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So a red cross is mandatory, but the speed, or other information is advisory?
If not, then why was it deemed necessary to surround the matric signs with red circles on the M25 and M40. Or was it not deemed necessary and just done for no reason at all?
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The red cross will be mandatory because it means lane closed from that point onwards. As dvd said, there will have been warnings of lane closure ahead with an arrow pointing to the left with flashing orange lights.
Now if she didn't take any notice of any of these signs, I'd say the chances are a NIP will indeed be on the way.
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The Highway Code is quite clear red type and the MUST word - lane closures signed in the way described are mandatory.
As others have said this signage is used for tidal flows on roads such as the A38M between the M6 and central Brum, so the last thing you need is some twonk deciding they know better.
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