TVM,you must have heard of that upstart,new kid on the block called Lexus.
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Indeed, and I dont see many ex MB or BMW drivers around in those. Dont hear MB or BMW moaning about lost sales to them either
In the UK that is.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I think now that Lexus are making cars very nice to look at too, a few people might defect.
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"now that Lexus are making cars very nice to look at"
when are they planning to do that?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I see the laser eye surgery was worth every penny.
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or the beige tinted spectacles
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Which, dragging this back to the topic, means that
All Korean cars (with one exception) are pig ugly.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I had some time to kill before a meeting this week and stumbled on a small Kia dealer (I have no knowledge of these cars whatsoever). I was walking around looking at the different models and was astounded to see the number of people waiting to speak with a salesman. It would appear they are very popular with taxi drivers.
As a product they are certainly selling well
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TVM,i guess you would be surprised at how much effort Lexus UK put into poaching BMW/Mercedes drivers in the UK,and it works.Look around,theres lots of Lexus out there,and just for a laugh,next time you see a new Lexus ask the driver what he was driving previously.
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I have, and not BMW or MB. The effort was a waste of time. They sell for sure but not to BMW or MB drivers.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Given that in 2005 Lexus shifted a little over 10,000 units (source SMMT), and BMW, Audi and MB managed a combined 275,000 units, I'd say they still have some way to go...
Peter
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Given that in 2005 Lexus shifted a little over 10,000 units (source SMMT), and BMW, Audi and MB managed a combined 275,000 units, I'd say they still have some way to go... Peter
If you believe that Lexus are as good or better than BMW/Mercedes then you might say this shows they are buying the badge - not a great insight I'll admit - and that Lexus need to put more effort into image instead of wasting their time making the cars better.
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If you believe that Lexus are as good or better than BMW/Mercedes then you might say this shows they are buying the badge - not a great insight I'll admit - and that Lexus need to put more effort into image instead of wasting their time making the cars better.
I'd agree, people are buying the image associated with the badge, to a degree. But this is true for an awful lot of products and services. And while Lexus undoubtedly make technically competent cars, they have not succeeded in positioning it as a premium brand in the eyes of the customers they are targeting. Perhaps its because we all know that the previous IS, GS and LS were all rebadged Toyotas, already sold in Japan.
Now that Lexus has been launched as stand-alone brand in Japan, perhaps this perception will change. It'll take time to sort out the image though; Skoda managed in a short period of time, yet it took Audi years. Rover failed altogether...
All just IMHO...
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hyundai"s i have said before are basic cars but good cars the parts are still dear though like for like because you nearly always have to go to the dealer, the maximum discount i have received is always 10%, not a lot when a headlight for a compareable ford can be had for £35 and the hyundai one is £125.
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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J.Clarkson makes his living by being controversial, not factual.
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Nah, Clarkson just makes the facts sound controversial!
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"in 2005 Lexus shifted a little over 10,000 units"
But over 300,000 (more than MB) in the US! A friend of mine switched from MB some years ago, but lets his wife keep an SLK to go shopping...
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I like MB and BMW,i also like Kias,especially the Picanto,its a really good package at a very low price,but when i'm spending my own hardearned its usually Toyota.So at the moment we are running 2 Toyotas and a Honda Civic that do the job very well without any dramas.
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The Koreans didn't start from scratch. Hyundai was originally set up as a joint venture with Mitsubishi (as was Proton) - so a lot of the technology is essentially Mitsubishi. The engine management systems are virtually identical, for example, so much so that an idle stepper motor from an older Mitsi fits a new Hyundai!
Many of the senior engineering staff working for the Koreans are actually Japanese - the Korean industry offers a 'second career' for early-retired Japanese automotive engineers (in much the same way as early-retired Japanese electronics engineers work for the Taiwanese electronics industry).
I can assure TVM that if he visits the 'competitor analysis' labs of BMW and MB he will find their engineers crawling all over Lexus, Accura and Infiniti products. In terms of the standard of engineering Lexus are pretty much the world's number one. The quality of the products and attention to detail, for the price, is breathtaking. MB and BMW know this and know that they are living on borrowed time in Europe (the US is already a stong market for the premium Japanese brands).
They are all fine cars though, and there is probably room in the market for all of them.
As regards the Koreans, I think the trim lets them down a bit and Oldman is 100% right about parts costs - its a killer (down to the UK importers being greedy, I suspect). Mind you, I have to say that these cars are not the bargains they once were. The Kia Rio, for example, is not exactly cheap - especially in petrol form.
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Oh I dont doubt they get "torn down"
Having worked in IT tear down (Its exactly the same principle) I know how that works down to the nearest cent in every respect.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Having worked in IT tear down (Its exactly the same principle) I know how that works down to the nearest cent in every respect.
Thread 'hijack' (Motoring related)
What systems?
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Thread 'hijack' (Motoring related)
What systems?
We only tore down high volume product lines. There is no need for the full costed process in other lower volume high value lines. So it was PC, ATM's, POS,
However in various other roles I have had in bits every commercial system you could name in the last 30 years from 360 machines to sun e1000
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>Hyundai was originally set up as a joint venture with Mitsubishi (as was Proton) - so a lot of the technology is essentially Mitsubishi>>
The Kia Pride of the early 1990s was basically a Mazda 121 and was quite popular model in the UK that was well priced; Kia made other models based on (Ford) Mazda cars that were sold under the Ford name in the States and some other areas.
Hyundai bought Kia out six years ago.
Full details of Hyundai's various models and brands at:
tinyurl.com/42guh
and Kia at:
tinyurl.com/qqpad
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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>>Hyundai was originally set up as a joint venture with Mitsubishi (as was Proton) - so a lot of the technology is essentially Mitsubishi>>
The Kia Pride of the early 1990s was basically a Mazda 121 and was quite popular model in the UK that was well priced; Kia made other models based on (Ford) Mazda cars that were sold under the Ford name in the States and some other areas.
Hyundai bought Kia out six years ago.
Full details of Hyundai's various models and brands at:
tinyurl.com/42guh
and Kia at:
tinyurl.com/qqpad
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
I thought the 121 was basically a Fiesta!
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I thought the 121 was basically a Fiesta!
I understand the early versions of Mazda 121, Ford Festiva and Kia Pride were all the same car, built by Kia.
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But over 300,000 (more than MB) in the US! ...
True, but then the Lexus brand was established specifically to establish Toyota's top-end models in the US market, a target which they have achieved through the reliability of the product and the level of customer service. Toyota realised they weren't going to do that with the Toyota brand...
They then tried to establish the brand outside the US, but the problem is, as US manufacturers have found out time and time again, cars designed for the US market do not sell in the UK. Hopefully the current generation of new Lexus products will have the exterior style and interior quality (or at least perceived quality) that UK consumers demand. No ones doubting the reliability (I don't think), but for many people a car is an emotional purchase as much as it is a rational one!
Peter
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As the owner of a Hyundai Terracan, I can say that the Hyundai is well put together, if a little dated in its internal design. It has some very dodgy 'wood-like' trim, but it has climate control, 5 seats and a huge boot, it gets 30mpg and it will happily go over speed humps at 30 to 40mph with no discomfort to the front seat passengers.
Its much more comfortable than the 2002 golf gttdi that I had previously.
Reliability-wise - its got 35K on the clock (2004 regd), and I've done 15K of those. Only costs have been service (independent) £120, new brake pads £120. Its going to need a set of tyres soon, but then all cars do and £400 for a set that does 40K isn't bad.
Would I buy another? I'm just waiting for pics of the new terracan to come out, before looking at a PCP.
It might be called a skip on wheels by my work colleagues, but I'm very happy to be a hyundai owner.
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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I'm sure Roly93 speaks for himself. If you're buying a car with your own money and you can find the right car in the range, then Korean cars loook like a sensible choice to me.
I think you have to be careful not to confuse cheap purchase cost with overall cost of ownership. I've been down the route in the past of buying bargain cars, like the nearly new Citroen I bought for my wife a few years ago. It looks like a great idea at the time, but the depreciation is so huge (as it would be with your Korean car) it wipes out this initial saving. I have proved that wisely buying a low-depreciation European made car can in the long term, be just as cheap, and you have the quality experience to go with it.
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