While I was parked in a residential street today, talking on the mobile, an unleashed dog approached the right front wheel and lifted its leg. Before any fluid appeared I elbowed the horn and the dog jumped sideways, bouncing unharmed off the side of a slowly passing Ringtons Tea van which didn't stop. The dog's owner approached my car and rapped on the window with his stick. After I had finished on the phone, an exchange followed along the lines of me being some sort of potential dog-murderer and a thoroughly bad sort. I explained that I didn't think it was my place to provide his mutt with toilet facilities and that it shouldn't have been trotting around unrestrained in the middle of the road looking for a doggy gents in the first place. Apparently I am to be reported to the RSPCA, the Police and probably the Chelsea Pensioners. My reaction might have been different had the animal been harmed by its contact with the passing van. How would you have dealt with the situation?
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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.*******
The owner may or may not have been in the wrong, but the dog can't be expected to know any different.
Chris M
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i think you were spot on hawkeye
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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The bit that got deleted from my previous message.
I believe you were irresponsible. It was forseeable that the dog would be startled (your intention) and could have run into the road, causing a car to swerve, possibly hitting another car or pedestrian. You should have checked first that there were no other vehicles about. There could have been a nasty accident - but at least your wheels would have remained urine free!
The owner may or may not have been in the wrong, but the dog can't be expected to know any different.
Chris M
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You would have been quite justified in taking a flying kick at the pooch, and the owner too if he wanted to intervene.
People with dogs are very often (not invariably as some of my best friends have them) self-righteous twits who imagine their undisciplined pets have the same rights as a human being.
If human beings left excrement all over the pavement they would soon be in trouble. Great pity the laws against dogs doing so are not enforced.
More short sharp shocks for dumb pooch owners!
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I tell you what lud.
As a dog owner there is nothing that drives me more mental than lazy good for nothing pet owners that cant be bothered to clean up after there fury friends. The things that i would make them do would all be deleted on this forum so you know there fairly strong views!!
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More short sharp shocks for dumb pooch owners!
Of course just dumb pooch owners, not senssible ones like caesar or others I could mention... but the pavements round here are terrible. Less is spent on washing the streets here than in, e.g., Paris.
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He may have been shocked then if the dog had damaged the van and been killed.Then the owner of the vehicle gets out and tells him as the owner of the dog he is liable for the damage to his vehicle.the breeder where we bought our dog advised us to take out insurance for the reason stated above as it costs the owners of the dog a pretty penny when there dog is at fault for any accident.Wonder how many dog owners have accident insurance?
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Most petdog "vet insurance" has 3rd party cover up to £1 or £2million.
I pay £17 a month for the dog for Vet bills & 3rd party insurance - I cannot afford the £2/3000 per year for my own private medical insurance.
When on a company scheme it cost me the tax on £400 - about £160 / year - a bargain compared to £2,000 privately.
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I do not own a dog, but even if I did I expect I would try to prevent a foreign dog peeing on my car wheels, perhaps by doing what Hawkeye did. It is true that an accident could have resulted, but if that is the case the owner is surely at fault for exposing his animal to the possibility. As others have said, some owners seem to think they have no responsibility for restraining their dog's behaviour. Legally dogs are considered 'biddable', i.e. they can be taught proper behaviour. Cats can't.
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and that it shouldn't have been trotting around unrestrained in the middle of the road looking for a doggy gents in the first place.
Correct. I had similar aggro from a dog owner who thought it was ok to let their dog roam freely around the village (see full story in an old IHAQ thread)
Anyway, to quote from www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_2....m :-
Control of dogs on roads.
27.?(1) A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.
and from homepage.ntlworld.com/k.westgate/law.htm :-
Dog owners have certain responsibilities.
Animals Act 1971, states that the keeper of a dog will be strictly liable for the damage caused by the dog.
The roads and dogs
The Animals Act 1971 provides that owners of animals and those who have control of them have a duty to take reasonable care to see that the animal does not stray onto the road and cause injury or damage.
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Well done Hawkeye, you displayed admirable restraint IMHO.
I would have lifted my own leg on the owner of the dog, then the dog itself if I had any left. Possibly would have left you in a vulnerable position but the chance would have been worth taking.
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"I would have lifted my own leg on the owner of the dog, then the dog itself if I had any left."
Of course you would.
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Control of dogs on roads. 27.?(1) A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence. and from homepage.ntlworld.com/k.westgate/law.htm :- Dog owners have certain responsibilities. Animals Act 1971, states that the keeper of a dog will be strictly liable for the damage caused by the dog. The roads and dogs The Animals Act 1971 provides that owners of animals and those who have control of them have a duty to take reasonable care to see that the animal does not stray onto the road and cause injury or damage.
The problem is that not every road is designated. Only certain main roads come under the Road Traffic Act where it concerns dogs, and try getting anyone to act against irresponsible dog owners. My dog has been attacked on numerous occasions by uncontrolled dogs, and I've invariably been met with abuse by the owners who couldn't care less.
My dog is always on a leash on roads. He has no road sense because he is never allowed to run free, except on footpaths where it is safe to do so. Unfortunately, there are lots of dog owners who don't follow any code. Why is it usually owners of huge dogs that allow this?
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DD
It has to be a designated road with appropriatly displayed signs and an order. Haven't noticed many locally for years.
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There might have been unfortunate consequences, and given advance warning and time to think about it you might decide to act differently - but I can't say you were wrong and I'm sure I would have reacted the same way. In any event it is for the dog owner to take reasonable care to avoid any forseeable problems, which he certainly wasn't doing by allowing the dog loose on the road - if there had been a terible accident I think he would have been the one answerable, not you.
The trouble, as usual, is that people who behave this way will never see your point of view - if they were so disposed, they wouldn't be so stupid and inconsiderate in the first place. Years ago, my father had a neighbour who would empty her dog, daily, right by Dad's gatepost. After a few weeks of this, Dad bagged up one of the deposits, knocked on her door, and politely returned it to her. She really couldn't see why he thought this was a reasonable course of action.
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One of my dogs roams leadless (something to do with some puphood trauma), he is wise enough to keep out of the way of cars (by not going onto roads), he did pee on a visiting cop's car once. If I was the driver of a car that struck a spooked dog after attempting to pee on a parked car, I wouldn't be very happy about that driver's actions.
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Having been the victim of various dog-owners negligence in the distant past as a runner, before it became the province of the fashionable, I would do as I did before: attack any attacking dog, confuse it by taking off and descending on it from some height. Might is right. The dog understands the situation and goes quietly if it lives: the owner is less understanding. I was always comforted by the fact that the owners were generally portly, couldn't catch me, and therefore less threatening in reality than their verbal promises.
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a friend showed me many moons ago how to show a dog how to leave you alone, shove a wire brush in its snout brass or steel it doesnt matter at the end of the day its an animal and it learns,unlike its masters i live in an area where dogs are constantly walked for short durations due to owner lack of interest, my next door neighbour is the bringer to these owners of returned "jobs" through the letterbox ive asured him i will carry the mantra when he"s gone.
if you have a dog you keep it on a lead where there is traffic not for you but to make sure the dog lives........end of sermon.
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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ttack any attacking dog
If you ever come accross a slightly "rugged" Springer with liver/white bodywork on your run don't try the above.
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I've still got the scars on my leg from a German shepherd, before I adopted a less supine stance. However, I am no longer certain of getting the height required, or achieving a break-fall if I miss, so i guess your Springer is safe:)
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attack any attacking dog
I really must show you a film of the French DSG training Malinois. One chases a truck down the road, and drags the victim out of the window while the truck is still going along.
My well trained lab, who needs no lead as it walks tightly to heel on command, is as friendly and well trained as any dog you will ever meet can still snap a lamb shank bone in half with its teeth and powerful jaws.
attack a dog? you could easily loose some vital bits.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I can assure you that attack was necessary. When standing still, the German shepherd bit my thigh: I'd rather give it a face full of running shoe than stand and be bitten. In the absence of a handy tree, what would you have someone do? Strangely it was a lab that I squashed, and another that I kicked to drive it off. Dogs sometimes aren't very brave when faced down, as our cats have demonstrated. Luckily I didn't come across anything like the police/war dogs, but then neither did I come across a psycho who would set it on someone.
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A shepard and two labs? You have been attacked by three dogs? what the hell do you wear - a bisto flavoured track suit?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Before any fluid appeared I elbowed the horn
I would have done the same. The dog should have been on a lead and under control. One day I was washing my car on my drive when a very hoity-toity lady came along and actually stood there while her dog urinated up my gatepost. And she wouldn't admit that she was in the wrong! I was so flabbergasted I didn't think of turning my hose on the dog, but I will if it happens again.
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L\'escargot.
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>>and actually stood there while her dog urinated up my gatepost. And she wouldn't admit that she was in the wrong!<<
Why was she in the wrong ?
I'm not trying to defend her - or her dog, just curious.
>>so flabbergasted I didn't think of turning my hose on the dog<<
wouldn't this be worse ?
Again, I'm no fan of dogs, or dog owners, but there is a limit to the control an owner has over the animal. Just to add my tuppence, I'd probably agree with the OP's action.
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I would have done exactly the same.
PS. unless it is highly trained like my previous labrador,it should be on a lead.
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Yes the dog owner was wrong.
But surely using the horn to startle a loose animal is illegal and dangerous too!
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The law is clear. You a strictly liable for your dog and the damage it causes. It is an offence to let a dog run loose on the roads.
If an owner is not prepared to control their dog, they should take the consequences. The dog may well be their beloved companion/apple of their eye, but there is no reason that they should expect strangers to share their enthusiasm.
I share the view that some dog owners can seem blind to the antisocial nature of letting their mutts poo or wee all over the place. If I saw someone letting their dog relieve itself on my front drive, I would pick up the offending mess with a shovel and chase them down the street with it.
I cannot understand people who buy dogs yet have no proper place to let them go to the bog.
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I'm finding this thread quite interesting. Most of the posters are taking an anti dog/dog owner line but it seems that whatever subject is discussed in the Backroom, it touches a raw nerve with many. Similar posts are likely to be found on children, old people, young people, parking in the street, parking at the supermarket, slow cars, fast cars, 4x4s, red cars, white cars..................
Do Backroomers drink a lot of Horlicks - otherwise how do you sleep at night?
Chris M
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I have no problem with farmers and such people having dogs, but I disagree with people who keep such animals in urban areas in an artifical and unsuitable environment. It is blatantly obvious that no animal should be loose in an urban metropolice and more than a block of flats should be built in the lake district.
It's a shame dogs are no longer required to be registered. They should be registered and insured.
Dogs can be every bit as antisocial and dangerous as chavs on mini motorbikes and quads ripping up the pavements and municipal parks.
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it seems that whatever subject is discussed in the Backroom, it touches a raw nerve with many.
Very astute observation. It's probably because, for the sake of a quiet life, we avoid letting off steam at home.
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L\'escargot.
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offence to let a dog run loose
The Act and Section being ?
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offence to let a dog run loose The Act and Section being ?
>>
just can't get quality professionals these days, you have to teach them their job :: ;-) ::
" Section 27 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 requires that dogs be kept on a leash on public roads, and local authorities can make byelaws to require that dogs be kept on a leash in certain parks, public gardens and amenity areas. "
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According to the HC, I am wrong on two counts;
Rule 92 don't use your horn "while stationary on the road"
Rule 190 "Do not scare animals by sounding your horn ..."
So, mea culpa.
And in my defence
Rule 42 says about dogs "Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement ... "
I should add that I had no idea the van was passing when I used the horn (the mirrors were folded) and that I didn't wish the dog any harm or to cause an accident. I would have preferred the owner to have respected my property and the safety of his animal by calling it away from the "wrong" side of my car before it started to show signs of wanting to relieve itself.
Thank you for your opinions.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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The dog cocking it's leg is marking territory rather than "having a leak".
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It doesn't matter if the dog's writing an immortal poem. If it's doing it in urine, on your car or feet, you are entitled to object. Of course you are entitled not to as well.
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I'm no dog lover but marking stuff is what dogs do. What's the problem with it marking a car or a gatepost?
Marking people is different.
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So the fault is the dog owners's, not the dog's? Still not acceptable to have one's pride and joy urinated upon as if some kind of honour is being conferred
I like well behaved dogs, but I really don't get the dog-owning thing - anybody from Mars observing the dog-emptying ritual, the feeding, grooming and general fawning of some owners, would conclude that the furry ones were in charge and the two-legs were enslaved.
Still, each to his own - as long as they don't expect me to chuckle tolerantly while the mutt marks its territory on my wheel/gatepost/trouser leg.
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well put manatee,ive struggled for words and kept deleting them as where i live i have a constant battle with selfish owners and innocent dogs
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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Whilst some of the comments in this thread are valid, some are straying from motoring, of which this forum is primarily based.
In other words, back to motoring please.
DD.
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"anybody from Mars observing the dog-emptying ritual, the feeding, grooming and general fawning of some owners"
or, to keep it motoring, could it be the washing, polishing and general fawning of some owners.
Everyone to their own!
Chris M
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The dog cocking it's leg is marking territory rather than "having a leak".
Well, my gatepost is my territory! Next time it happens while I'm washing my car the dog gets the full force of the hose.
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L\'escargot.
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