Naming no names or auction centres
But at least three i visit on a regular basis seem to let owners bid on their own stock
One character puts in 20 vans in one sale getting them squeezed in between fleet stuff and the auctioneers take more time over his stuff to get him a good price and he stands there and bids on all the way!!
Why is this allowed to go on,surely is should be level playing field?
Also at some auctions these people get a nod from the auctioneer to bid up lots that arent making the right money even though thay dont want them.
Your comments please
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If what you allege is true then it's the old story of where's there's money there's always a fiddle.....
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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The fire extinguisher is known to make the odd bid at one auction venue that I sometimes visit.
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I agree it's a bit of a fiddle, although I doubt it's illegal.
Auctions have a certain culture, honed over decades if not longer, I bet they're quite upset about the influx of the dumb public in recent years who have got wise to auctions through TV programmes such as Rags to Riches and Car's the Star and have come to the auctions as 'guests' but are demanding big changes from their hosts, not only that, but they want the whole thing dumbing down for the common clueless man.
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The fire extinguisher is known to make the odd bid at one auction venue that I sometimes visit.
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You right I think you are !
I've bought a couple of cars at auction and had mixed feelings about what I ended up with. Yes I think there is a lot of 'shill' bidding going on at many of them. One of the auctioneers mates says he wants a car, or a particular car in that auction, so the buyer bids to a pre-arranged level and then the auctioneer continues the auctions with ghost bids, till the auction ends, and then the real buyer gets the car for the price which may be at the reserve price or thereabouts with possible higher bids ignored as the winning bidder did not exist.
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Slightly off topic, but i remember watching a property programme and two girls were bidding for a house in Liverpool. Their competition seemed to be the emergency exit sign above the door. The host of the show commented that the practice was entirely legal.
Some auctionneers are be in the RICS, this behaviour seems just plain unethical and i can't imagine that a MRICS auctioneer would behave in such a way if he or she valued their status.
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Its entirely legal and common practice for auctioneers to take bids 'off the wall' up to the reserve- but they should not be 'trotting up'-ie taking bids 'off the wall' against a genuine bidder in excess of the reserve.
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It is common practice for an experienced auctioneer to bid against himself and this happens just as frequently outside the motor trade.
I remember when my father retired from farming and sold his dairy herd by auction, he was left with 10% of the cattle after the sale because the auctioneer was taking fake bids. At the end of the day he achieved cracking prices on those that were sold and earned himself the extra commission.
A skilled buyer learns to detect an auctioneer`s technique and will act accordingly.!!!
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Quote;
"he stands there and bids on all the way!!"
He's probably only bidding up to the reserve(his) to get interest in the vehicle.
However if he bids over the reserve and it gets knocked down to him...........a bit of waste of time!
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Happens in auctions from Sothebys to ebay,all part of buying thru an auction,if you are selling you want the best price,if you are buying you want your best price.
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I am not sure where the law stands on this.
I can see no problem with bidding up to the reserve, as no-one gets hurt.
Accepting pretend bids or bids from the seller after this point seems much more murky to me. I am struggling to see how this doesn't amount to fraud, unless the seller is genuinely prepapred to "buy the goods back" if he doesn't like the price.
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It's not illegal, it's just a gamble, try and get the price up, while risking selling something to yourself.
I guess it's just the 'game' rules of the trade, and it IS a TRADE. I think it's most unfair that outsiders are trying to change their rules, for heaven's sake, buy from a garage if you don't like auctions.
It's the same with ebay, it was great before they advertised it on TV and all the thickos started using it and moaning that they weren't protected and spoon-fed enough by ebay. D'oh!
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i have had a little read about this. Seems that the practice is regulated (at least in part) by the sale of goods act.
A seller is not allowed to bid unless the terms of the auction clearly state that he is. If this is breached the sale is unlawful and the buyer can pull out. I imagine that proof would be the big problem. I would imagine that all commercial auctions havd this term in their conditions.
An auctioneer is not allowed to take bids "out of the air". If he does, teh eventual sale is unlawful, and the buyer can pull out (same proof problem)
an auctioneer who does this may be guilty of obtaining property by deception, but as far as I can see none has ever been prosecuted for this.
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What is far more of a problem to the seller is when all the pros collude not to deal against each other in a specialist sale. Only one will bid, making it far harder for the auctioneer to take bids off the wall. They'll take it in turn through the sale.
At the end they go down to the pub, hold the auction again, in private, and split the profits between themselves.
Used to happen in Sothebys and Christies quite often. Guess it's less likely to happen in the auto auction industry, except at Coys etc. type sales.
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Intrigued to hear HJ's views on this one!
Jack
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