Im interested to hear if anyone has a thoughts on the cost difference in servicing and maintaining a petrol car versus a diesel. Specifically, as an example - 51 reg mondeo 1.8LX petrol against a TDDI.
Im looking to get a cheap car for the company that will probably do about 20k per annum. I know the diesel is more efficient but it costs more initially. I can do all the sums and work that out and im assuming the depreciation will be similar (the initial cost of the car would be low anyway and so wouldnt be worth much when sold). I just dont know if i can expect to pay more for keeping the diesel on the road than the petrol. Anyone any ideas?
Oh and i would be looking at the tddi rather than a tdci. From the stories i read on here, i dont think tdci engines will make a sensible 2nd hand buy.
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Comments on the board are often made that servicing diesels is/can be more expensive. I can only go on my experience which may not be typical and say that I find this difficult to believe. Have had 2 150+k miles Bxs and apart from a set of glowplugs each they needed no attention to the diesel engines except that I chose to change oil/filter at every 5k miles. (Usual specified cambelts also but petrols require that also)Newer HDi diesels are serviced every 12,500 miles (actually, wife's Xantia is annually since she only does 10k/year, though it has done 80k)and have had nothing done to engines except oil/filter changes. Daughter's Clio diesel is serviced every 18k - only oil/filter change so far. Son's C2 HDi has only had one service in 20k so far - oil/filter again. I can't think of any other charges that we have paid that are specific to diesel engines rather than petrol. Can only remember 2 complete exhaust systems and one partial in 19 years and about 500k miles which aint too bad.
Others may well know differently - after all, our cars have been those notoriously unreliable Citroens and Renaults! (19 years of RAC membership and 2 call outs - one for a broken throttle cable and one for a stone damaged radiator)
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Phil
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Oil changes will cost the same as for the most part they use the same type and quantity of oil. Diesels won't need replacement sparkplugs or plug leads, but then modern pertrol cars don't go through these like they used to. Air filters vary widely in price, really depends on the model of car so can't say whether diesel or petrol airfilter cost more, same again with fuel filters. Antifreeze is antifreeze no matter which car.
Just can't see any difference in cost of servicing, yet some will still go on about higher diesel servicing costs. Its probably to make themselves feel better about buying a petrol engined car...who knows.
As for repairs then thats another matter. Some diesel fuel pumps are eye-wateringly expensive, but then I have also heard the prices of some petrol engined catalytic convertors which need to be in place for emissions gas tests during MOT...not so for diesels.
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Diesel filters are commonly changed every service whereas petrol filters are every 50-60K or so. Diesels generally use more oil than petrols, so thats a higher cost.
Personally from what I've spent & calculated 20K a year is proberly close to the break point where it becomes worthwhile to run a diesel, but as I've said in the past on a higher mileage MODERN CR diesel one big bill could wipe out any fuel saving in a stroke. Or could exceed the value of the car. And before anyone says that diesel pumps etc will come down in price, no they won't they're made to a level of precision & complexity that petrol metering units don't get near. Also their will never be the volume that is required to bring the cost down.
Comparing a BX diesel with a diesel of today is like comparing a modern petrol with a 1950s Austin.......
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What Car? magazine gives servicing cost and overall cost/mile for all cars.
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L\'escargot.
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What Car? magazine gives servicing cost and overall cost/mile for all cars.
But aren't What Car's costings based on the first three years of ownership?
That's useful stuff, but primarily for the fleet owners who sell a car on at that point. The sort of costs borne by owners of older cars are a very different issue. For example, those Ford automatic geraboxes that are reported not to last as far as 100k miles -- I bet that their failure is not included in the What Car costings.
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" What Car? magazine gives servicing cost and overall cost/mile for all cars."
Have you had a look at it?. Does it show diesels being more expensive to service than petrols?.
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Most Ford dealers do menu priced servicing which is the same ragardless of the fuel type, and both has 12.5k intervals.
For those that don't (my local dealer doesn't) the labour element of the bills are the same regardless. The diesels take 6L of oil so that is about £5 extra. On the 3yr 37.5k service the diesels require a fuel filter which is about £30+VAT (this might only apply to the TDCi's), but if you had a petrol you would be paying for 4 spark plugs.
Essentially there is nothing in it in terms of service costs.
I would go for a TDCi if you possibly can. They are much more refined than the TDDi and are more economical. I had a March 02 TDCi, it was one of the first built, and I had 1 injector replaced at about 38000 miles, other than that it was completely reliable.
Common rail technology has been around a good while now and most garages that are worth using have the diagnostic equipment and knowledge to repair them. You heard the odd tale of woe, but compared to the vast number of common rail cars on the road these days its very rare.
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Common rail technology has been around a good while now and most garages that are worth using have the diagnostic equipment and knowledge to repair them.
This is not true. The number of garages that have the necessary equipment and expertise to correctly diagnose and repair CR diesels is relatively small. Many main dealers cannot properly diagnose at present and have to pass the job out to a specialist.
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Wasn't the OP asking about the TDDi? - is that CR? Or has the post by tr7 distracted us from the original Q by his peculiar point about XUDs/diesels and 1950s Austins/petrols.? And diesels using more oil? What, 5 litres ish per change? You save a lot of money because petrols use less than that?
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Phil
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Yes, I was answering the point about CR Diesels.
The TDDi is (I think) old-style Diesel technology.
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Not sure about the TDDi being CR it maybe is. Yup diesels use more oil typically about 1-1.5 litres more. Most petrols these days run circa 4 litres in the sump. Some diesels use a filter every 12K together with the oil filter, the Alfa certainly did.
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Thanks everyone for the input.
My understanding is that the tddi was not common rail, but i could be wrong! The tdci does seem to be a vastly superior engine, but i am just concerned about the horror stories you hear (especially over the incorrect fueling - one of our engineers did this, but in reverse ie diesel in a petrol car. He thought it sounded like a diesel........) Mind you, i think you can find a horror story for EVERY car on here if you try.
At the end of the day, with a car of this age and mileage, luck probably pays a large part in how much it will cost to run (that and how well it was maintained before you bought it).
Guess i will have to see what goes through the auction on the day.
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Now that diesel service intervals are comparable to petrol if not better, service costs should be broadly similar.
A few years ago I was interested in a Pug 306 diesel (6k service intervals I think). I was driving around 15k miles a year at the time. I did the maths - mpg and servicing costs - and there was no benefit. Now I would say diesels have the edge, especially if your covering higher mileages.
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big danger putting petrol in the diesel. heavier car more wear to tyres suspension brakes. 20k or more annually get diesel
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Depreciation may be similar for small to average size car.
But for a large car, diesel engined are more sought after
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