thanks for continuing advice
skoda my wife will not sit in
so have to look at other options
as originally said it looks between new avensis 2 lit colour collection /t3x or 1.9tdi passat old shape for around 11000£
the used mazda's look more expensive
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At 20k miles a year I would take some convincing to buy a Diesel.
The latest common-rail Diesels have been nicknamed 'common fail' in the trade. If they do go wrong (and I admit its an 'if', they are fairly reliable) then the repairs will cost an arm and a leg and your friendly independent will probably not be able to help. Personally I would go for a Mondeo 2.0i.
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"skoda my wife will not sit in"
Have you or she any idea how out of date , out of touch, and pathetic that is?
Did you see Neil Lyndon in the Sunday Telegraph last week raving about Skoda Octavias? Probably not. Blinkers got in the way.
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The skoda will be the cheapest but its based on the golf, not the passat,
Depends which Skoda you're refering to. The Skoda Octavia shares the same platform with VW Golf and Seat Leon, but not the Passat. The Skoda Superb however uses the long version of the Passat platform.
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" The Skoda Octavia shares the same platform with VW Golf and Seat Leon, but not the Passat."
Absolutely right of course, but the Octavia has quite a big rear overhang and in terms of room inside is not far short of the Passat.
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>>The latest common-rail Diesels have been nicknamed 'common fail' in the trade. If they do go wrong (and I admit its an 'if', they are fairly reliable) then the repairs will cost an arm and a leg>>
I have done 103k miles in 44 months in my TDCi (=28k/year), it has averaged around 47 mpg so I have used around 9800 ltrs which at todays prices (95p/ltr) would cost around £9300. If it had been a petrol and had averaged 35 mpg I would have used around 13200 ltrs which at todays prices (90p/ltr) would have cost me around £11900, the difference of £2600 would go a long way towards the cost of any CR related repairs, and the higher residuals offset the higher cost of purchase.
It was of course warranteed for the first 60k anyway.
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Yes, I think if you do around the 30k miles a year then Diesel has to be worth it. I think at around 20k miles it starts to get more marginal.
You quote higher residual values, but this works against the OP who was looking to buy secondhand. A nearly-new TDCi will cost a fair bit more than a 2.0i petrol, whereas at 5-years, 100k miles neither is going to be worth a lot.
I must confess to a prejudice against common-rail simply because I have seen a fair few VERY expensive failures. They are not systems you can DIY on and they are invariably fitted with DMF's which can make even a simple clutch change a more expensive job.
Think about it; straightforward petrol injection running at 30-60psi than most independents can fix, or CR Diesel with two pumps and system running at 25000+psi, a turbo and a DMF. Likelihood of failure increases with complexity......
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I must confess to a prejudice against common-rail simply because I have seen a fair few VERY expensive failures.
(Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but if so, I'm sure a mod will move it!)
I'd be interested to know if there is any pattern to these failures - i.e. age of car, number of miles traveled, type of driving, and, most importantly, manufacturer of engine.
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I must confess to a prejudice against common-rail simply because I have seen a fair few VERY expensive failures. They are not systems you can DIY on and they are invariably fitted with DMF's which can make even a simple clutch change a more expensive job.
I've seen concern expressed elsewhere about the long term aspects of common rail. This is new technology, how much long term testing have manufacturers done? From what I've read, old style injectors cost c. £30 each, but common rail injectors cost £250 each. Apparently you can change the nozzles on them rather than the whole injector, for a tenth of the price, but the injectors can get stuck in the head so its a head-off job to change them. Is this correct?
May not be a widespread problem at 1-6 years old, and no problem if you have a warranty, but makes me wonder what will happen when these cars are 8-10 years old, at the bottom end of the used car market; cost of repairs will be totally uneconomical.?
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I don't think many of these cars will be around at 8-10 years - and will certianly not be viable to repair.
I got 'talked into' buying a Rover 75 with the BMW Diesel by a mate who wanted me to get one for him. We got the car (auction) and then found one injector wasn't working properly. Unfortunately the injector was siezed into the head. A quick discussion with BMW revealed that the cure was complete replacement of the head! The next shock was, 'we don't sell the heads separately - you will need to replace the complete engine!!" I don't know if this is true or not because we eventually got the injector out with judicious use of heat and force. Not for the feint hearted though!
I also nearly had a nastly loss with an auction-bought Merc CDi. The glowplug had siezed in the head and there was risk of snapping it (with consequent mega-job to remove). Eventually I got it out. Merc mechanical friend tells me if they don't come out easily then the dealer won't replace.
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I don't think many of these cars will be around at 8-10 years - and will certianly not be viable to repair.
Aprilia, do you think this is also true for modern petrol cars? Is the timescale different?
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I don't think many of these cars will be around at 8-10 years - and will certianly not be viable to repair.
This was said when EFi became popular, then turbo charged engines, then when ABS became common place, 'too costly to repair', 'wont be viable to repair once a few years old', how many cars have actually been written off due to EFI or ABS failure?
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how manycars have actually been written off due to EFI or ABS failure?
I suspect a few have been written off.
I really don't think you grasp the complexity of CR Diesel systems. Those on here with an engineering background will know what I mean. The kind of engineering required in a system operating at 10's of thousands of PSI is a totally different ball game to indirect petrol injection. There are not many independents going to be tackling this stuff - ever.
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Aprilia, why do these parts, which may need to be renewed, so often seize? Combination of reasons obviously, but manufacturers should be pressed to design and make things properly. Obviously a lambda sensor subject to constant very high temperatures and sprayed by mud and road dirt is going to rust in if it can, but injectors?
Brake bleed nipples can seize and shear sometimes necessitating a new caliper or cylinder. A smear of copper ease or something similar on the threads will prevent that from happening. Surely there must be a way of making injectors removable?
The usual reason given for skimping is cost. If seized 250 quid injectors are going to lead to replacement of the whole engine (!), perhaps charging a couple of quid more at the point of sale would be worthwhile from everyone's point of view.
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Agree with Aprilla, one of the reason that my Alfa JTD went was the massive complexity & cost of fixing the CR diesel. Mine did a High pressure pump & that was £ 780 alone plus 4 hours labour. That was at around 103K miles, I've heard similar comments in the trade about other high mileage CR diesels. Apparently it's rare on Alfa cars but more common on the Fiat vans which run the same lump as they tend to do more miles.
The rest of the labour to diagnose wasn't charged for but it must have been 15-20 hours +!!!!
Hence the reason I now run a Porsche 944 which I can generally diagnose & fix myself!
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hi
avensis diesel colour collection at 12.5 /or vw passat used 1 yr old at 10995
please help
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Avensis should be more reliable, and you will get one extra year of warranty if it's new.
(Is that the kind of help you need?)
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- Avensis. A brand new car as opposed to a year-old one has to make sense: 3-yr warranty, brand new mechanicals, tyres, etc.
I'd guess that a Toyota is cheaper to maintain long-term too, and moreover pretty much everyone on this forum has had a BAD experience of VW UK and their dealerships.
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I have commented before on the gamble of running complex cars when they are worth very little and common rail diesels are just another item which will rule against keeping such cars for a long period.
I have a 50K service coming up on the C5 in few months and this requires the replacement of the particle filter, a very expensive item by itself. If the car was 10 years old, instead of getting on for five years old, I would question the economics of paying for expensive items like the filter. I was told by a salesman, at our local Renault dealer, that the filters in the new Renault diesels cost about £700.
Does anyone know if it is possible to run these cars without a particle filter?
By the way, does either the Avensis D-4D or the Passat diesel have a particle filter? It might be worthwhile finding out if you haven't decided which car to have.
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Particulate filters will get cheaper once there is enough business for the aftermarket to get interested. Same applied to catalysts in the early 1990's.
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Particulate filters will get cheaper once there is enough business for the aftermarket to get interested. Same applied to catalysts in the early 1990's.
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I will let you know how 'cheap' the one for the C5 turns out to be.
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By the way, does either the Avensis D-4D or the Passat diesel have a particle filter? It might be worthwhile finding out if you haven't decided which car to have.
VAG 2.0 TDi uses a particle filter which is self cleaning.
The thought of having to replace such a filter at 50,000 miles at a cost of £700 (and no doubt more in an Audi!) would put me off buying.
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>>avensis diesel colour collection at 12.5 /or vw passat used 1 >>yr old at 10995 please help
Avensis - for all the above reasons plus you'll be running it in yourself (see HJ's FAQ's for excellent advice) whereas you don't know how the Passat has been run in. Did the Passat owner "simmer" the engine after each long run? Was the Passat owner one of the 700 people who every day fill their diesel with petrol by mistake? Avensis, especially at the low price differential.
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Wasthe Passat owner one of the 700 people who every day fill their diesel with petrol by mistake?
Every day? I can see someone doing it once, but I find it difficult to believe there are 700 people careless enough to do it every day!
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>>but I find it difficult to believe there are 700 people >>careless enough to do it every day!
Absolutely, but I was only using a figure quoted in one of the RAC radio ads where they offer such sound advice as wiping your windscreen wipers with vinegar, save on your insurance get married, don't go for the mega meal on the motorway and if you do fill up with petrol don't turn the ignition on or it could cost you £thousands.
How many people hire diesel cars and make the mistake? Where do year old diesel rental cars retailing at around £10K end up? I know two people who have done it in the last 12 months and as SWMBO drives a petrol I never let her near my diesel unless it is full ;-) Still sounds a lot but if I was hi123 I would think about it.
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thanks for all the suggestions
looke like ukbroker.com have the avensis at 12.2 are they any good anyone had an experience of buying from them
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hi
thanks for all the suggestions
any particular place online which is better
the prices range 12.2 -12.6 k for avensis colur collection
i will be trying to keep the car for 3 years does that change the choice
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Which places are you considering buying from? i have dealt with a large amount of the brokers out there and can happily give you advice.
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thanks
i was looking at ukbroker.com avensis for 12.2
can u recommend which online retailer to use
please
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Broadspeed have some great deals on the Skoda Superb
EG. Superb Classic TDI PD £12030 (includes Climate, CD, front/side and curtain airbags etc...)
www.broadspeed.com/buy-new-skoda-superb.shtml
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