Think they are "sold as seen". however for only two days ownership and then potentially large bill I have asked for exceptional circumstances to be considered. Fit for purpose and all that.
Still no news from Nissan yet on actual diagnosis and cost to fix. When I hear the news and found out whether Nissan UK might help with a goodwill gesture I will progress things accordingly (i.e desperately!).
Was lovely to drive for 2 days...
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The company my wife works for (major PLC) used to allow employees to buy the ex-fleet cars,as seen etc,and very good value they were,much cheaper than the local dealerships etc.
This was the way they disposed of many cars each year since time began.
Then about 2 years ago there was some trouble with people moaning to the fleet manager about the cars that they had bought 'as seen'and its 'not fair'and 'if i had known it was like that'and wanting the company to either pay for repairs or give them their money back.
Well now that particular perk has gone,all cars,even the one that you drive go to BCA an sold thru the auction.
Shame really,beacause over the years have had some very nice goo value cars.
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I'm more than happy to be shot down here, but dont I remember something about the Sale of Goods Act or more accurately recent changes to it in respect of used cars (probably in this forum) - perhaps another reason why the company withdrew.
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Not quite sure what you're trying to say here T-Lucas? Are you basically saying tough luck Jase, that's the way the cookie crumbles? I think 2 days maybe a little on the low side for me to be able to swallow that without a fight? I've given my big PLC honest service for a number od years after all! I know the score "sold as seen" etc..I'd accept a few months, maybe even shorter before lashing out big time but remember these are FSH vehicles and this one was last serviced in December so 2days is taking the mick.
No word from Nissan yet btw. I have also raised the issue with the dept at work to see the lie of the land. no reply either (other than autoreply!)
On the upside of life, my wife had a 34week scan today and her low lying placenta has finally moved out of the way, giving our first child the chance to be born naturally. Fantastic news.
Certainly a mixed day!
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Congrats. On the baby anyway!
Best of luck getting the car fixed. And of course with the baby!
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Thanks Adam. Was a big relief. You seem to be omni present btw!
Just get the car sorted and I'll be fully happy again.
Better not degenerate into inane babble or DD will strike..
Back on topic..
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I hope the baby is better looking than the car Jase! ;-)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Jase -register on www.nissanprimera.net loads of help and advice on there. A few Nissan techs too, and a great bunch of people. Help is always at hand
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Congrats on the good news regarding impending baby Jase.
6 weeks of normal sleep left....
Sorry Mods.
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The only point i was trying to make really is that if Nissan will help out thats great,they probably dont have to,but thats debateable.If you are buying the car 'as seen'from your company and then start moaning that after 2 days you have to dip your hand in your own pocket thats tough.
What would you think if the company said after 2 days 'that car is better than we thought and someone else has offered £1000 more for it can we have it back'.How 'fair'would that be?
Also if the company say all cars now go to the auction,depriving other members of staff bargains,how 'fair'is that?
Only my opinion.
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The company car buying rules are very clear and I have been told this. "Sold as seen" is the key and we are allowed to have them inspected. Perhaps I should have done. I talked to the owner in detail before going for it (he reported no problems) It was last serviced in December so thought it was a safe bet for a bit at least. It should be noted that we are not allowed to sell the cars on for at least 12 months, so on this basis they should be at least fit for purpose in my view.
My big PLC are going to consider things (excerpt below) so they are at least considering exceptional circumstances.
"However as the car has broken down in such a short space of time I will get this referred to higher management for a decision "
Garage has confirmed dead turbo btw. £1300 to fix inclusive. Catalyst OK. They are chasing Nissan for some goodwill but, again, no promises.
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I am surprised that the turbo went from good to bad in such a short space of time. Was there some other fault (e.g. loss of oil supply?). I would have thought there would have been some symptoms in the weeks before.
This engine is definitely the Nissan Y22D unit (NOT a Renault unit) and they are usually very reliable. Could it have been driven very hard in the past, or skipped an oil change?
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Aprilla - No reported symptons apparently, although I have only driven it a few times of course so I wouldn't know if degredation was evident. Owner is a middle aged chap (not that this is relevant to how hard he drives it I guess) but doesn't seem the type to have hammered it. Car has spent its life on motorways.
Has been serviced every 12k by main dealer up to 72K in december '05, which is its final service. Now on 75.5k.
When you say oil change do you mean engine oil or special turbo charger oil (excuse ignorance). Or is normal engine oil used to lubricate turbo bearings etc..
Thanks
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"When you say oil change do you mean engine oil or special turbo charger oil (excuse ignorance). Or is normal engine oil used to lubricate turbo bearings etc.."
Its engine oil that lubricates turbo bearings. The turbo is a hostile place, very hot. There is a chance the turbo bearings were cooked. This is caused by heat soak - Driver turns off engine imediately after turbo has been hot and spinning - oil feed stops - bearing cook and simmer in own oil which goes hard - turbo kippered
or
Not changing oil, oil gets thick and treacle, blocks up in feed pipes or bearings - Kippered turbo
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Garage has confirmed dead turbo btw. £1300 to fix inclusive. Catalyst OK. They are chasing Nissan for some goodwill but, again, no promises.
Jase, if it's any consolation I took a look on Autotrader, and it seems that even if you had to pay the full £1300 yourself, you'll still have got the car for a lot less than people are asking on Autotrader.
I know that the £1300 isn't money you had budgetted for, and maybe not money you can readily afford, but it doesn't look to me like you'd have gotten a bad deal overall even if Nissan and/or the company don't share some of the cost.
Hope that's some small consolation in glass-half-full sort of way, and good luck in getting t'others to cough up :)
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Not the Toyota, after everyone's good advice about Almera on-the-limit-handling for those special motoring moments?
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Not the Toyota, after everyone's good advice about Almera on-the-limit-handling for those special motoring moments?
It's still zero wheels, because of technical problems shuffling money around. But as soon as that's unravelled, it's going to be an Almera: nobody's persuaded me that the Corolla is worth an extra thousand (yes, thanks, I did listen carefully to all the advice, but I made my choice).
Hopefully, the closest I'll get to on-the-limit-handling will be trying to fit the wretched thing into parking spaces. I hope it's true that the Almera SE has those squeaky eye things to assist :)
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Just to correct a few people who have made references to this engine being Nissan...
It's not - it's RENAULT.
It has been *tweaked* by Nissan, but it is still based on a Renault lump. The give-away is the Renault diamond logo embossed in the engine block!
Also dCi is a registered trademark owned by Renault !!!
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MoneyMart
Current car: 55-reg Audi A4 2.5 V6TDi Quattro flappy-paddle
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Tweaked with a different EGR setup and a chain cam.
Thats some tweaking
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Tweaked with a different EGR setup and a chain cam. Thats some tweaking ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
More like gouging and drubbing.
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It doesn't make sense to me, why Nissan would go to all the expense of changing the cam drive when the 2.2dCi engine is already there just to slot in from the Renault range. Nissan use the little 1.5 dCi unmodified in the Micra.
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I think maybe the block is the same on these two engines, but just about everything else looks different to me. I would call it a Nissan Diesel, rather than a Renault.
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Jase - What is the latest position with regard to your unfortunate turbo problem, - has your company finance dept relented and agreed to cough up the £1300 or not ???????
Good luck with it anyway.!!!!!
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Still ongoing Dude,
The Nissan main dealer customer service is terrible. They haven't called me once with any updates since Monday morning. I have had to chase continually for any kind of feedback. (i.e what is actually wrong, OK then how much will it cost, have they contacted Nissan UK re: some goodwill, how long will it take to fix etc..)
My PLC dept have asked to see the estimate for the work and want it faxed to them, so I retain some (forlorn) hope. Its taken 4 calls today to the garage before one actually got returned and I have asked them to fax it.
Have to say I'm finding the whole thing very stressy, but I feel I've entered down a path now that I'm committed to. No idea where I am to be honest!
Large scotch tonight.
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Sounds about par for the course for a main dealer. I was told, yesterday, that our local Nissan dealer has a similar reputation.
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Update..
Large PLC has agreed to pay 50% of bill. Therefore £650 cost to me remains. More than generous I say. Turbo to be replaced ASAP now.
Main dealer Nissan garage has not managed to get a reply from Nissan UK re: possible goodwill in 5 working days!! Rubbish performance. I have asked them to chase, which I don't expect them to do, assuming they have actually asked!!
Without naming and shaming too obviously I would like to say that the big deleted dealership in deleted, part of a huge group who also own deleted and now deleted and deleted garages in the same road, have offered the worst customer service I have ever encountered!
{"without naming and shaming too obviously"; No naming and shaming at all please. The info you provided gave all the clues as to who you were talking about, hence its removal. DD}
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if you want my honest advice get it fixed pay your half and get shut.
--
\"a little man in a big world/\"
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"Full nissan service history. Last service done at 72k." only 3k ago, so pay, pick it up, make sure it is ok and write to Nissan customer services rather than go through the dealer.
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>>>Large PLC has agreed to pay 50% of bill.>>>
Jase - I am pleased you have received some recompense for your appalling bad luck, as Large PLC were not legally obliged to pay this 50% contribution.
I read this as a favourable omen of your good working relationship with your employer, so hope you remind them at your next salary review.!!!!
Good luck.
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>.if you want my honest advice get it fixed pay your half and get shut.<<
Do you reckon? I'd be tempted to keep it you know. Simply because, as NoWheels said, even paying the full repair price, he's still got a good deal technically.
He seems to like the car too.
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Does Jase's problem suggest the former driver regularly failed to "simmer" the turbo before shut down?
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Its a diesel: the exhaust temperature is a lot cooler than a petrol engine. You can't get the turbo to the cherry-red point!
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Its a diesel: the exhaust temperature is a lot cooler than a petrol engine. You can't get the turbo to the cherry-red point!
It is still recommended by the PSA group, that the engine is allowed to idle for a few minutes, if it has been run at high speed for a prolonged period.
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if you want my honest advice get it fixed pay your half and get shut. -- "a little man in a big world/"
Would tend to agree actually, these new common-rail diesel engines (ANY make) are more trouble than they are worth. Get rid once the warranty is up.
Reliable diesel? My pink fluffy dice.
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"Would tend to agree actually, these new common-rail diesel engines (ANY make) are more trouble than they are worth. Get rid once the warranty is up.
Reliable diesel? My pink fluffy dice."
Evidence please - I have four cars in the family - all of them have CR diesel engines. One has done 80k in 6 years no trouble so far - should I be worried??
--
Phil
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I never heard anything bad about them either. Some people can cook anything, even inadvertently. Observe rules suggested in owner's manual. Display 'mechanical symapthy' at all times. Then if the device blows up, see if you can look the poor starving manufacturer in the eye and swear you obeyed these simple rules.
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LOTS of anecdotal evidence, primarily with the Renault dCi units (upon which the Nissan is derived) but others as well. The newer diesel engines are under significantly more stress than the earlier, less powerful engines which ran forever. More than one mechanic has advised me to steer clear due to the number of turbo failures which have passed through his hands.
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Nothing fundametally wrong with the Renault dCi engine, some reports of turbos blowing (Garrett) and EGR valves playing up (Mitsubishi I think). I have not heard of fuelling problems.
I understand that Renault have introduced what's called the Yellow OTS scheme whereby for owners with blown turbos on 1.9dCi's that have FRSH, Renault will contribute to the cost. I believe age and mileage conditions may apply.
Renault dealers now have a special tool for testing and cleaning the EGR valves.
My opinion is that the 18K oil change interval is too long. Mine gets done at 9K with fully synthetic.
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Turbo Failure = it's a known failure on the 2.2dci - check npoc.co.uk or nissanprimera.co.uk and do a search ! Common fault on the whole range of 2.2 dci's !
Renault derived = rubbish - thank goodness my petrol P12 is a real Nissan Unit !
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Nothing fundametally wrong with the Renault dCi engine, some . Renault dealers now have a special tool for testing and cleaning the EGR valves.
>>
sharp screwdriver maybe?..............think i have one of those
--
\"a little man in a big world/\"
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Once it's fixed (maybe today?) I will be keeping it, seeing as the "at risk" component has been fixed. It's still a good value car (theoretically!) assuming it behaves in the future. Will still chase Nissan for some goodwill even if the garage don't come up with anything.
One contributor mentioned that the turbo maybe hadn't been simmered, which is entirely possible. As the car has been running up and down motorways it's more than likely the chap pulled into filling stations and immediately turned his engine off, so perhaps the bearings have been cooked over time? I will be simmering religiously!
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I can see the point of simmering if using full power for a prolonged period, but running on the Mway in UK is hardly taxing the engine/turbo. How many hp to sustain 85mph?
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Long service intervals are the death of turbos.
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12k service intervals on this one by the looks of it. Maybe I should contemplate 6K ones aswell
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My Alfa 156 JTD did it's turbo, spoke to dealer & he'd had 3 in that week! Then spoke to Turbo Technics and his comment "12K is far too long for service intervals, change oil every 6K & you won't have any further turbo problems"
After that I always let the Turbo cool down with idling for 30 seconds minimum & 2 minutes or so if coming straight off the motorway & into services. £ 590 turbo + Labour or a few minutes of my time?
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If HJ doesn't object, Parkers has a forum in which Renault turbo failures are discussed. Also VOSA are interested in any catastrophic failures: forum.parkers.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17190
There is also a FAQ section given an opinion on the EGR valve as a cause of the demise of these turbos. Oil quality and change interval said to be factors.
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If HJ doesn't object, Parkers has a forum in which Renault turbo failures are discussed.
you have to get past the antmat first though.
i managed it, but am in disguise.
--
"a little man in a big world/"
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"you have to get past the antmat first though. i managed it, but am in disguise."
Por que ?
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Oh dear Looks like this 2.2Dci turbo problem is quite common: I think I will run this car for a year (warranty period of new turbo) and then trade it maybe.
Got a couple of remaining questions: Has anyone got a contact number or address for Nissan customer services. I still want to write and complain (i.e. beg) but can't find a contact address anywhere?
Re: my repair -
1) Would you expect new oil to be put in the engine as part of a turbo replacement?
2) This EGR thingy - would/should that have been attended to in any way?
3)The CBCBD reports that the 2.2Dci was recalled for ECU reprogram (YD22). Will this need reflashing following replaced turbo?
Just wanting to know what sort of questions I should be asking when I pick it up?
Finally, how best can I protect this from happening again? Regular oil changes, Italian tune up, simmering or is it really just cross fingers?
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Regular oil changes and 'simmering' would appear to be the trick. I am certainly going to be doing that from now on with my 2.2 dCi.
Get the recall carried out - if it already hasn't been done. Other than that I don't think you need worry now for the future. I certainly am not and intend to keep the car for a good few years
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Oh dear Looks like this 2.2Dci turbo problem is quite common: I think I will run this car for a year (warranty period of new turbo) and then trade it maybe.
These reports appear to refer to the Renault. Are you sure that the turbo installation is ths same on both the Renault and the Nissan?
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AFAIK the dCi reports refer specifically to the Renault unit. The Nissan one isn't perfect but seems to suffer from fewer problems. It's impossible to tell though on anecdotal evidence.
The weird thing is that when the Nissan one does go it seems to be in the Primera and not nearly as often in the X-Trail. Any ideas why?
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Hurrah - car is back!
Garage have done the job, re-applied the ECU flash for the recall and also re-done two other bits of recall work on the YD22 engine. Big PLC paying 50% so whilst a painful experience, the car is still good value, now at £5k though rather than £4.4k!
Car is very good and relaxed on motorways, bit big and bulky for town. Going to swap our Leon Cupra for a Meriva 1.6 16V at some point for the other car. Don't want two turbo cars...
Thanks for all your posts everyone. Keep your fingers crossed for a bit of trouble free motoring!
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dCi is a registered trademark of Renault!
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MoneyMart
Current car: 55-reg Audi A4 2.5 V6TDi Quattro flappy-paddle
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Hi,
Glad your car is fixed.
Watch the Meriva. I had set my heart on one, but couldnot live with the poor view at roundabouts on the test drive. The front pillars are a pain and really get in the way. I spoke to one bloke filling up his car with Petrol and he says his wife moved the seat backwards at roundabouts to see what was coming!
Best regards
Baz
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