Coming up to 3 years ago you helped me with my last purchase so hear I am again!!!
With the Focus 1.6 Zetec I bought with 6 miles on the clock back then about to hit 54k and the first MOT due in March I've decided to go for something a bit sporty.
Taking my budget in to account of around £7.5k and having spent a few weeks keeping my eye out I have spotted two cars I'm hoping to look at at the weekend - a 51 Seat Leon 20 VT Cupra on 37k miles at £6700 and a 52 Focus ST170 on 17k miles at £7500. Both are at franchised dealers (although the Leon is at a Subaru one).
Having spoken to my insurer the ST170 is the one which will cause the biggest upset to my premium (higher excess and more to pay for the rest of this year than the Leon). Quite surprising as the Seat is faster but I suppose it's the Ford's image.
Has anyone got advice/experience/opinions of these cars? I note Honest John liked the Leon so much he bought one(!).
I have enjoyed my time with the Focus and see the ST170 as the natural progression. However the Leon seems to make more financial sense and is something different.
Any responses are much appreciated.
Phil C
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The ST170 is brisk, but definately not a fast car in my experience unless it's been particularly well run in. The first one that I drove left me feeling a little deflated to say the least, probably because I was expecting so much. It only got any rea urge when you really revved it hard, below 4,000 there was almost nothing.
However, it is a stunningly good looking car IMO, it drives nicely, and is quick enough for most people's needs if you know how high you need to rev it (i.e. very high)
Never driven a Cupra, my guess is that it'll feel faster to drive but would find the Focus was certainly an equal when it comes to the twisty bits. And I think I prefer the Focus's looks.
Tough call really but in your case I would be leaning strongly towards a test drive of the Leon first.
Blue
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I have a 2001 Cupra and its a great car in most ways. Its fast, drives well and is well equipped (6CD, climate control, 6speed box etc..). The turbo engine is strong from 2K upwards and not at all peaky. Its really a very good engine actually and much better than the engine in the Focus. Its also very tuneable very cheaply via remapping if that interests you.
Downsides. Economy isn't great. I've never managed to emulate the 35mpg that HJ reported. Expect high 20's average. There are a few quality niggles such as the odd bit of creaky trim/dashboard but generally OK. The oily bits seem fine. There have been problems with coilpacks in the past but SEAT replace these for free now because the problem was so common. Focus probably drives better I understand.
The Cupra is now excellent value for money. Cupra-R suppressed its prices I think.
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I test dove a Cupra Fr not that long ago. A brand new demo, it creaked and rattled just like a VW group car does. Noisey and being 6' 2", I just couldn't get comfortable. Looks good though.
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I just sold my 53 cupra (changed to a classic car- not because I didn't like the Leon), and I have nothing but praise for it. Unlike the previous contributor, I regularly managed between 30 & 35 mpg on a mixed motorway-suburban journey, which I always felt was impressive for a pretty powerful engine (my MGB only manages 25-30!). Although not free from the odd squeak (it had done 46k by the time I sold it), I felt the build quality was excellent, and NOTHING went wrong in 30 months of ownership (nothing at all!). Only money spent was on servicing (reasonable at about £80-£130 for a minor) and tyres (a set would last about 20-22k, about £100 each corner, fronts go first obviously).
Personally, I much preferred the torquey character of the turbo- I test drove a Celica 190 and although it was more powerful I felt that the peakiness would quickly wear thin!
Both are excellent cars- I can't speak on the focus, never owned one, but have nothing but praise for the Leon. If (when?) I need a family car that's a bit fun, it would (will?) be at the top of my list.
HTH,
Alex.
--
Dr Alex Mears
MG BGT 1971
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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I test dove a Cupra Fr not that long ago. A brand new demo, it creaked and rattled just like a VW group car does. Noisey and being 6' 2", I just couldn't get comfortable. Looks good though.
IMHO the older Leons were better built than the later ones and the quality of plastic seemed to get worse each year.(I have sat in a number over the years). As PhilC is looking at a '51 era car he shouldn't be too worried in this respect.
PhilC should bear in mind that a '51 Cupra looks nothing like an '05 FR as the body kit and wheels were completely altered in late 2002. More macho and less subtle post '52 reg.
I have never thought my Leon to be noisy but then I don't know what car midlifecrisis is comparing. PhilC is coming from a 1.6 Focus so that would be a relevant comparison. Anything else isn't really.
Cupra's are pretty firm riding though, which means they're a bit hard over the bumps!
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I had a 2000 leon and did 60k in it. Overall it was a great understated car, the interior wore well with the exception of the covering of the interior drivers door handle which peeled off. Also I had a problem with damp carpets which blighted the early cars and my useless dealer never really solved the problem. I have driven honda vtec's in the past but I found the leons's low down torque much more usable in everyday driving. Servicing can be a bit pricey using Seat main dealer. 20000 mile service was something like £450!
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UPDATE
After several hours sprucing up the Focus we went to see the Leon today and came away totally underwhelmed by the service we got from the dealer and ultimately felt as though they were trying to rip us off.
It made me realise how hassle free buying my last car from Motorpoint was.
Got to the dealership to find the car was still displaying the price it was for sale before Christmas (£7.5k). I pointed out to the salesman that I'd seen it on-line at the lower price.
On inspection I found the car to be tidy enough. It had actually covered 33.5k miles which was less than I thought. However, the bonnet had a lot of stone chips on it. My Focus has a lot less with more miles (is the paint thinner/softer on a Leon?!?). On testing the car I found it drove well and had no rattles. However, the salesman was extremely vague about the car's history (didn't know how many previous owners it had had, wasn't aware of leaking problems etc). I'd spotted that the rear screen was covered in internal condensation, which didn't clear much during the test drive so I was suspicious there was water in the car. My fears were confirmed when I got out of the car, lifted the driver's mat and found the carpet was absolutely soaking!! The salesman said that this would be rectified before the car was sold.
I decided to go and talk figures. Having had a look around my car they spotted two things - one it was from Motorpoint (they suspected it was an import), two it had had an accident repair (during the last week or so the driver's door has dropped slightly and therefore was not flush to the body as it should be).
I had to then reassure them that the car was an UK car (it was in a pre-registered batch sold to Motorpoint by the local Ford dealer - it still has their name on the numberplates!!) and that the door problem would be rectified under the workmanship guarantee from the approved repairer.
I said I was looking for between £5k and £6k for my car as I knew the mileage was far higher than average.
However, the figure they were willing to offer me was between £4k and £4.5k!! He then went on to say, in a roundabout way,
that they had lowered the valuation on the part exchange because they had lowered the sale price of the Leon in order to keep their sales margin up. He actually said he would give me £5.5k for the Focus if I had seen the Leon at £7.5k!!
This whole episode took between 1.5 and 2 hours in which time we were left unattended for long periods while they went away to make calls about my car's value (who are they ringing for prices on Sunday?!?).
Although they coming back to me in the week with a final confirmation on price we don't think the Leon is for us. I found the visibility out of the back a lot poorer than the Focus and the interior, whilst functional, is very dark and austere.
And I've got to find another Focus as the one I had spoken about has now been sold. They say they have a similar 'pipeline' car coming in.....at £7.9k, with more 1k miles on the clock - £400 more expensive for more miles!!) What is the world coming to!!!
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