what is regarded as a modification - nutty_nissan
What exactly is regarded as modifying your car for insurance purposes?

For example, let's say you fit polyurethane bushes to your car to replace the worn out rubber bushes. Would you have to inform the insurance company? Or if you fit a slightly stiffer anti-roll bar to the front to replace the factory fitted one?

I know if you fitted bigger wheels compared with factory standard, you have to declare, or if you start modding the engine.
what is regarded as a modification - Aprilia
Almost anything different from factory spec is a 'modification'.

I fitted a front strut brace to one of my cars. The insurance company regarded this as a mod because (according to the guy at the call centre) this would indicate that I like going around corners fast and so am more likely to have an accident.
what is regarded as a modification - No FM2R
Declare everything. If in doubt, declare it again. Declare it in writing.

If they charge you an additional premium for it, or they refuse to cover you, then just be thankful they didn't find out for the first time after an accident or other claim.

And if they say its ok, then get that in writing as well.

Don't think just because it doesn't affect the performance they don't care, Aprilia's experience would not be unusual.

Better safe than sorry.

what is regarded as a modification - MichaelR
The whole thing is utterly ridiculous and is yet more excuse for insurance companies to extract money from us.

Some examples.

My car has a genuine Ford styling pack fitted to it. It was available on my model is a factory option. It is was also available on a similar trim level, as a standard fit item. Both cars look identical, both cars have the same insurance group. A quote on a standard 2.0 Ghia X and a quote on a standard 2.0 Zetec-S is exactly the same. Despite this, I have to pay an extra £50 a year and have my car classed as modified becuase the styling pack was not standard. Work THAT one out - it's just as 'desireable' (I use that word begrudging, its a V reg Mondeo ffs) to theives as the identical in appearance and performance Zetec-S, yet costs more to insure. Bizarre.

Some more issues - I wondered about fitting a longlife airfilter like a K&N, to reduce the ability to have to keep changing filters. Can't do that, thats a modification. Must pay the insurer more. But apparently the Halfords air filters are fine. Err, whats the difference? Either its manufacturer made or not, why can you fit a Halfords airfilter without charge yet not one made by another brand?

Another even more interesting one is things which genuinelly DO increase performance - such as Optimax fuel on Japanese performance cars, and performance tyres on any car. You can corner quicker with decent tyres, do you have to inform your insurance company if you change tyres and the tyres selected are not the ones the car came out of the factory with? If so, why? If not, why not? Why don't Impreza owners have to class Optimax as a mod if it gives them another 20bhp?

Why do I have to declare my stainless steel backbox as a modified exhuast system when the only reason I bought it was becuase it wasn't any more expensive than buying one from Ford, and offers zero performance gains?

Why, when I had 3 buckled wheels last year, did I have to spend time going around looking for another set of the Ford wheels instead of the far easier method of just buying a whole new set becuase otherwise I'd have to pay more insurance? And even if I had bought other wheels, paid extra, then had them stolen, they'd not have paid out! They take your money for these 'modifications' but dont ACTUALLY cover them. Money for nothing, IMHO.

I appreciate the need to inform the insurer, and pay an extra premium, if your car is modified in such a way that it's quicker, or that it's more likely to be stolen but in the above examples I think it's an absolute mickytake.

My insurer were more interested in taking money off me becuase of the Ford produced styling pack than for my 3 points for speeding! Which do YOU think is the biggest indication of risk!
what is regarded as a modification - Dalglish
My insurer were more interested in taking money off me

>>

most commercial firms exist to make a profit. insurance companies exist not to provide a service to their loyal customers, but to make a profit.

now if they all were like the fireservice that aprillia so loves, or other state sectors, then you could demand that your mp take up the matter in parliament and give you your insurance free of any extra charges.

( actually, i tell a lie, because you will find that most state sectors now charge you fees for this and that. for example, you cannot photocopy a page from the highway code because that would breach crown copyright and you must buy the full version instead. )
what is regarded as a modification - nutty_nissan
Almost anything different from factory spec is a 'modification'.
I fitted a front strut brace to one of my cars.
The insurance company regarded this as a mod because (according
to the guy at the call centre) this would indicate that
I like going around corners fast and so am more likely
to have an accident.


Crazy insurers. You could argue that superior handling means you are less likely to spin off the road or hit another car if forced to swerve! Take your point on board that must declare everything.
what is regarded as a modification - Chris S
Would that include non-standard wheel-trims? If so most of my neighbours are uninsured!

Also would minor cosmetic mods affect third-party claims against you in an accident?

(I know they can affect theft claims because they supposedly increase the risk.)

what is regarded as a modification - nutty_nissan
What about all those people with windscreens so dirty, they can hardly see out?
what is regarded as a modification - MichaelR
I had a new windscreen fitted my RAC autowindsceens, it might not be a Ford one, is that a modification? ;)
what is regarded as a modification - Xileno {P}
When I had my wheel arch resprayed, the body shop was not a Renault one. So presumably I am uninsured because I have non-original paint on it...

On this basis practically every car on the road is uninsured since when one needs new tyres, how many of us fit exactly the same make and type as the car left the factory with?
what is regarded as a modification - No FM2R
You must declare all factors which are material to the risk. If you are not sure whether a factor is material or not, then to be safe you should declare it anyway since the onus is upon you to ensure that your insurer is aware. If you are unable to decide whether different water in your water bottle is a modification, then you have bigger problems than your car insurance.
what is regarded as a modification - No FM2R
The other part is how the insurer must behave if there is a non-disclosure - aprt from showing that it is a non-disclosure he must then show that it would have caused him to handle the risk differently.

If it would simply have caused him to charge an additional premium, then pretty much all he is allowed to do now is charge that premium, not dodge the claim.

For him to refuse your claim and recover third party expenses from you he will almost certainly have to show that he would have declined the risk had that fact been disclosed by you and perhaps that you intentionally didn't disclose it.

SO the fact that you didn't disclose non-standard paint would probably be irrelevant.
what is regarded as a modification - cheddar
On this basis practically every car on the road is uninsured
since when one needs new tyres, how many of us fit
exactly the same make and type as the car left the
factory with?


Tyres are made to a standard so if you fit tyres of the same size and load and speed rating you are fine, anything outside this though and you need to tell your insurer.


It is easy to fall foul of this when buying a second hand car, afterall how does the 3rd or 4th owner know what the correct spec tyres are, whether it has a K&N filter fitted or perhaps something even more internal such as a highlift cam etc.
what is regarded as a modification - Xileno {P}
Yes and increasingly these days the use of chips to increase the power. How would anyone know when buying a car? Is the responsibility on the seller to inform the buyer or is it up to the buyer to ask these questions?
what is regarded as a modification - cheddar
Chips and ECU mods are a good example, also if for instance a car is bought from a dealer then the dealer can only inform the buyer if the previous owner has in turn told the dealer.

Nevertheless I suspect .. sorry Mr Insurer I did not know it was a mod, it was like that when I bought it .. would not wash.
what is regarded as a modification - Dalglish
be honest, truthful, and ask or declare anything you are not sure of, and as no-fm2r says, get it in writing.

interesting case here, where the ombudsman found in favour of polciyholder in respect of modifications, but she lost the claim due to other facts not disclosed:

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombuds...m

When the insurer investigated a new claim, it came to light that the car had been fitted with oversized alloy wheels, spoilers, and chrome wheel arches, and that the policyholder?s husband, a named driver on the policy, ...
...
On the evidence presented, we accepted the policyholder genuinely believed the car was not modified when she bought it. ...

what is regarded as a modification - mare
>> Almost anything different from factory spec is a 'modification'.
>>
>> I fitted a front strut brace to one of my
cars.
>> The insurance company regarded this as a mod because
(according
>> to the guy at the call centre) this would indicate
that
>> I like going around corners fast and so am more
likely
>> to have an accident.
>>
Crazy insurers. You could argue that superior handling means you are
less likely to spin off the road or hit another car
if forced to swerve! Take your point on board that must
declare everything.


Or Devil's Advocate: the standard spec provides adequate handling for everyday driving. Improving the specification would/could imply that you wish to drive in a more, um, competitive (?) way, thereby increasing your risk profile.
what is regarded as a modification - artful dodger {P}
When I took out insurance with elephant they had a detailed list of what was constituted as a modification. Might pay to have a look as see what they classify. There was no way to check to see if any changes altered the premium, but it was the lowest for me.


--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
what is regarded as a modification - Bromptonaut
Have always followed the dictum of if in doubt declare. Was refused a quote by Admiral(?) for my otherwise standard 205XUD becuase it has the steering wheel, but nothing else, from a 205 GTi.

what is regarded as a modification - Dalglish
for a full explanation of how this matter is treated, read

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombuds...m

that should settle it.
what is regarded as a modification - Wally Zebon
I had a similar problem when getting quotes for my Fiance's Clio 182. It has the Cup spoiler pack and Cup suspension pack fitted by Renault at the factory, but many insurers regarded these as modifications.
I was astounded that they would take this view. After all, the parts were fitted in the factory!

I was also told by the same company (who shall remain nameless) that Mini owners also get hit hard when they tell their insurers about Chrome Packs etc. They took the same view that these were modifications even though the car left the factory with them fitted.

On a plus note, I fitted Porsche 911 Turbo brakes (322mm disks & 4 pot calipers) to my old Audi and they did not up the premium. It was viewed as a safety upgrade. It didn't reduce the premium in any way, but at least it didn't increase it.
what is regarded as a modification - artful dodger {P}
I found reading the financial ombudsman link very informative, especially these two sections:

INNOCENT
Customers act in good faith if their non-disclosure is made innocently. This may happen because the question is unclear or ambiguous, or because the relevant information is not something that they should reasonably know. In these cases, the insurer will not be able to ?avoid? the contract and (subject to the policy terms and conditions) should pay the claim in full.

INADVERTENT
A customer may also have acted in good faith if their non-disclosure is made inadvertently. These are the most difficult cases to determine and involve distinguishing between behaviour that is merely careless and that which amounts to recklessness. Both are forms of negligence.

Inadvertence occurs when the customer unintentionally misleads the insurer. This can occur just by failing to read and check the questions and answers thoroughly enough. When this happens there is no breach of the duty of utmost good faith.

Everything turns on the individual circumstances. Customers will find it more difficult to prove that they acted inadvertently if they answered several questions badly. To get one or two questions wrong may be regarded as inadvertent; to get several wrong starts to look like recklessness.



I though about the possibility of buying a secondhand car that had previously been chipped to boost its power output. You may not know of the chip, so you cannot declare it.

It seems that the non-disclosure policy seems to be fairly and reasonably written. I think they seem to have the balance about right between the insurance company and the insured.




--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
what is regarded as a modification - mare
i notified the insurer of our Almera that we had fitted a 6CD changer in the boot. No extra charge!

But then, Almeras are invisible to toe-rags
what is regarded as a modification - Cliff Pope
Many years ago I fitted a high-compression 3.5litre V-8 engine into an ordinary LandRover. The car went like a bomb, and had totally inadequate suspension, steering and brakes for the extra performance.
The insurance company was not interested - they said all LandRovers had the same (low) insurance rating.