Not sure I buy the bus comparison. Not many urban service busses have seat belts etc, and on London's bendiy busses standing is the order of the day.
Accept that a full harness baby seat is a big ask but the cabby who let it be known he carried a booster cushion might clean up. In a London cab I'd be inclined to put the kid in drop down overload sets on grounds of being smaller, higher set and with some safety gain from being rear facing. But then travelling backwards guarantees a monster puke from my son.
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Just like hire car companies most taxi companies will supply a child seat if booked in advance, i.e. airport runs etc.
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It is an anomally the lack of seat belts on buses and allowing people to stand. Buses are equally able to have accidents, a point ignored by our legislators, and most of the baby carrying public too.
A cabby may not want to show himself as baby friendly, because in my experience, babies often = shopping, and/or short runs = less cab fare, and more hassle with shopping bags, kids feet going on seats, kids screaming in drivers ear, puking up etc etc etc.
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Buses are an anomally, but they do have an advantage over a car/cab: their size and weight. Rapid deceleration in a bus is much less likely if it hits something like a Renault Laguna, for example. (Are you getting better RF?) I'd fancy my chances in a bus at city speeds with no seatbelt much more highly than in a car.
Long distance high-speed coaches are another thing entirely.
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Just expect the cabby to drive extra carefully knowing he has small children on board...(that's what I used to do as a cab driver).
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So do you drive recklessly or less carefully when you are carrying adults?
I don't put different values on peoples lives depending upon their age.
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Adults can choose whether to wear a seatbelt a small child doesn't have the option of wearing a seatbelt cos it doesn't fit, and would actually be dangerous for the child to put on a seatbelt. Babies in arms also have no option for seatbelts.
Do I drive extra carefully when I have small children in my car with no seat belts, you bet I do!
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Do I drive extra carefully when I have small children in my car with no seat belts, you bet I do!
That's not good enough. You shouldn't do it at all. Even a low speed accident could kill or seriously injure an unrestrained child and an assurance that you "drive carefully" is not acceptable. My mother in law holds the same view as you and as a result she has never cared for her granddaughter without supervision and never will. It's just plain dumb.
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THEN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ALL THE CUSTOMERS WHO WANT A TAXI WITH SMALL CHILDREN!!!
And you explain why it's acceptable on a bus. and explain why legislation does not address this in terms of taxis and buses!
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Taxi or not, is the driver not legally liable for ensuring any passenger under the age of 14 is wearing a suitable restraint? Not looking to wind people up, more curious to know if there is an exemption for taxis. If there isn't then a lot of cabbies need to consider whether they ought to be carrying kids in their cars.
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THEN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ALL THE CUSTOMERS WHO WANT A TAXI WITH SMALL CHILDREN!!! And you explain why it's acceptable on a bus. and explain why legislation does not address this in terms of taxis and buses!
Assume the rules for private hire vehicles and minicabs are same as in a car; all belted or otherwise restrained at all times. Are the rules different for a licencsed Hackney Carriage (ie a taxi permitted to ply for hire)?
While I understand the drive carefully principle for the comfort of unrestrained pax it ain't going to help if you broadside a truck at a careful 40.
Buses (and trains) are irrelevant, though FWIW I feel not the slightest need for restraint in my daily 130 mile round trip by train.
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Seatbelts are not going to help a 1yr old, a 2 year old, a 3 yr old, imo. I'm not talking about them being restrained or unrestrained really, the very fact that they are in the car means they are at greater risk than larger person/child who is restrained. I don't know what the law is on small children wearing seatbelts. Is there a legal requirement for a minimum age and or child safety seat for these children? I don't think so. And where the mother is holding the child on her lap is also a case in point.
I'm not sure what you mean broadside a truck? If I'm driving extras carefully there's no way on earth I'm going to brodaside a truck at 40. Unless you mean a truck hits me? Which is fine, it's out of my control, however, by driving extra carefully that's exactly the sort of thing I'd be looking out for before going across a junction.
Trains are not road transport, different category different debate. Buses are very relevant, you don't think buses have accidents? You don't think they have serious accidents, some caused by the bus driver, some caused by other road users- irrelevant, they do occur people do get killed. It is one rule for cars another unexplainable rule for buses.
And if you went your 130 miles by bus, would you feel safe, yes you probably would, just like we all felt safe 30 years ago in our cars unrestrained, but restrained gives you that extra feeling of satisfaction, that should the bus go across the hardshoulder and down the embankment, you will atleast not be flung around like bingo ball.
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Horatio, I think I may be able to put your mind at rest here.
The Law
The law on using child restraints in cars is likely to change by May 2006. For now:
Cars
Child under 3 years old
Child Aged 3 to 11 years and under 1.5 metres tall
Child Aged 12 or 13 years or younger children 1.5 metres or more in height
Passengers Over 14 years old
Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles
Taxis and Private Hire Cars - Child under 3 years old
Taxis and Private Hire Cars - Child Aged 3 to 11 years and under 1.5 metres tall
Taxis and Private Hire Cars - child Aged 12 or 13 years or younger children 1.5 metres or more in height
Taxis and Private Hire Cars - Passengers Over 14 years old
Other Vehicles
Front Seats
Rear Seats
Additional Information
Summary of Seat Belt Laws
How Belting Up Became Law...
More Passengers than Seat Belts
Legal Penalties
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Cars
The law requires children travelling in cars to use an appropriate child restraint or adult seat belt, if they are available. Children cannot be carried in the front seat unless they are either in a child restraint or are using the seat belt. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that children under the age of 14 years are either using an appropriate child restraint or an adult seat belt if available.
Cars - Children under 3 years old
If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used (the adult seat belt is not sufficient). Children under 3 years old may not travel in the front unless they are in a child restraint.
If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used, IF AVAILABLE.
If an appropriate restraint is fitted in the front of the car, but not the rear, children under 3 years old MUST sit in the front and use that restraint. Remember, you could move the restraint from the front to the rear if you wish. Rearward-facing seats are designed to be used in the rear as well as the front. You should always put a rearward-facing baby seat in the rear if is a front passenger airbag fitted.
Cars - Children Aged 3 to 11 years and under 1.5 metres tall
If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn.
If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
If an appropriate restraint or seat belt is fitted in the front of the car, but not in the rear, children between 3 to 11 years old and under 1.5 metres tall MUST use that restraint or seat belt. (Remember, you could move the restraint from the front to the rear if you wish).
Cars - Children Aged 12 or 13 years or younger children 1.5 metres or more in height
If carried in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
Cars - Passengers Over 14 years old
If travelling in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
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Taxis and Private Hire Cars
The law is exactly the same as for children travelling in cars.
Taxis and private hire cars - Children under 3 years old
If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used (the adult seat belt is not sufficient)
If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be used, IF AVAILABLE.
If an appropriate restraint is fitted in the front of the car, but not the rear, children under 3 years old MUST sit in the front and use that restraint. (Remember, you could move the restraint from the front to the rear if you wish, and you should do this if you are using a rearward-facing baby seat and there is a passenger airbag fitted).
Taxis and private hire cars - Children Aged 3 to 11 years and under 1.5 metres tall
If carried in the front seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn.
If carried in the rear seat, an appropriate child restraint MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
If not, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
If an appropriate restraint or seat belt is fitted in the front of the car, but not in the rear, children between 3 to 11 years old and under 1.5 metres tall MUST use that restraint or seat belt. (Remember, you could move the restraint from the front to the rear if you wish).
Taxis and private hire cars - Children Aged 12 or 13 years or younger children 1.5 metres or more in height
If carried in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
Taxis and private hire cars - Passengers Over 14 years old
If carried in the front or rear seat, an adult seat belt MUST be worn IF AVAILABLE.
From 2006
The law on using child restraints in cars is going to change. By May 2006, the law will require children travelling in cars to use child restraints.
The Department for Transport issued its long awaited consultation about child car seat use on the 13th June 2005. The consultation discusses how European Directive 2003/20/EC is implemented.
The Consultation Paper Child Seats consultation paper is available on the DfT website.
The key proposals are that:
All children under 3 years old must use an appropriate child restraint when travelling in a car or goods vehicle (except in a taxi if a child seat is not available);
Children aged 3 or more years old and up to 135 cms (approx 4 ft 5 inches) in height must use an appropriate child restraint when travelling in cars or goods vehicles fitted with seat belts (few exceptions are permitted);
Rear-facing baby seats must not be used in seats with active frontal air-bag;
All child restraints must conform to modern safety standards, meaning UN-ECE Regulation 44.03 (to apply from May 2008); and
Where seat belts are provided, the number of people carried in the rear of vehicles may not exceed the number of seats available fitted with seat belts or child restraints (to apply from May 2009).
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And who is responsible?
Details in the highway code
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/05.htm#75
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An excellent bit of research still skint, thanks for that, now we all know where we stand. And we know that passengers under 3 do not require a seat belt where there is no special child restraint available.
Which is why I when I *was* a taxi driver would always drive extra carefully when I had very small children onboard because they were invariably unrestrained. Had they been restrained though it would make no difference I still would drive that much more cautiously. And like I said earlier I never allowed young (under 10 - 11) into the front seat.
It is good to see the rules will not apply to taxis because it would not have been practical.
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