I don't mind Volvo daytime running lights, but some Volvo owners seem to abuse the privilege by switching on their headlights during daylight hours. I just hope it wears their bulbs out quicker!
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L\'escargot.
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Could somebody point me to an explanation of, or explain, the dim-dip system?
Many thanks in advance
R40
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Dim dip was an excellent British idea, which as usual was cheap, effective and idiot proof.
When side lights were switched on headlamp bulbs were also lit on a lower power than usual, this stopped clowns driving around on sidelights in poor lighting conditions.
It was scrapped by the interference of a non-elected body (EEC then) as one of the member states disagreed with it and it didn't comply with rules written by an Eurocrat.
Not that I'm anti EU you know !
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Why exactly do you need daytime running lights? Anyone who can't see a vehicle in daylight unless it was lit would not make it to the end of their road without hitting something anyway, so I don't really see the advantage.
Lights make it harder to judge the speed and distance of oncoming vehicles, and vulnarable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists are lost in the glare. The accident rate increases markedly at night when all vehicles are using lights and they are easier to see, so why would it help during daylight?
I think it is one of these daft ideas on the "more is better" front which has never really been thought through. And please don't quote statistics to prove the point, because I have seen others that will prove exactly the opposite. Any expert can prove whatever they want from the same set of figures.
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Dipped headlamps do not dip their beam to their nearside (UK). The extent of the dazzle can be seen by the way they light up the side of the road. Also when you are being overtaken. There is also dazzle and distraction when they go over a bump.
Indeed if they pull up facing the wrong way the beam is into the face of oncoming motorists.
I have no objection to proper dim-dip that does not have the dazzle factor. Many years ago, when I was pro-gadget, I rigged one of my cars with a switch to put both headlamps in series. In effect that put 6 volts on each of the two 12 volt bulbs to give a gentle glow.
For the curious, it was done by lifting one of the two headlamp earths and taking it to a changeover relay that optionally took it either to earth, as it was, or to 12 volts. The centre connection of the two lamps was aleady made for normal power-up.
But faced with cars with their bright lights on when visibility was still 1 mile or more, I lost the urge.
Also, some of these, so called, bright sidelights, have a high dazzle factor at an angle off the dead-ahead. Not nice.
There was some talk on here of the Volvo engine-on lights being banned in Germany. Is that true?
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I thought the EU had already made them mandatory with a start date about now. It was part of the same agreement with car manufacturers which made ABS mandatory from the same point in time.
I assume it has been dropped?
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To follow up my last post there is a final report on the benefits of DRL's on the EU's website.
It says they are beneficial but it looks as if member countries have different views on how to implement them with Germany saying they should be light sensitive, France saying they should be seperate from dipped headlights etc.
It's not clear if the EU has acted on the report yet.
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PU
Many thanks for the explanation :)
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Tom Shaw said:Why exactly do you need daytime running lights?
Greyhound buses in the States found that they had fewer accidents with daytime lights. Volvo found the same. In a perfect world everyone would be perfectly alert and no one would ever tell the insurance company "I didn't see him". The world isn't perfect and we need all the help we can get to be noticed by other motorists.
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People were less likely to miss seeing, in daylight,Greyhound buses in the States with daytime lights.
omigod!
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Since getting my new car, which has automatic lights, which feature lights which stay on for about 30 seconds after locking the car, I've realised how willing people are to tell you that you've left your lights on.
I get told at least twice a day by people, and have to stop and explain how the lights work to them, otherwise they would think I was ignorant!
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According to the manual of my new New Passat, the automatic headlights come on as a function of light levels, weather conditions (via the rain sensitive wipers), and vehicle speed.
They tend to come on when going through short underpasses, which must make other drivers think I'm a bit of a ...
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Both my present car (honda accord) and my last car (peugeot 306) had the main headlamps come on dimly when the sidelights were put on.
Is this not dim-dip?
or maybe i'm being thick...
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Is this not dim-dip?
Certainly sounds like it's dim dip.
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Was this not simply that the side light bulbs are let into the main reflector on these cars?
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It doesn't look like it. From what i can see, the main headlamp bulbs are definately glowing at approx 1/4 power.
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I will start by saying I have no problems with DRL's or DNL's in countrys where light levels are low, but in countrys where light levels are high for most of the day they can cause other road users such as cyclists and pedesrians to become invisable, now if dim-dip was brought back and DRL's were given a maximum wattage of 21watts then it would reduce the other problems caused be baddly aimed or bulbs which fail to meet the standard.
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I agree with Tom Shaw in principle. In practice, I tend to drive with dipped headlights in less bright weather, even if visibility is good. Why? I am informed that one of the questions on insurance claim forms now is "what lights were you showing?" or words to that effect - I can guess the "right" answer.
What I need is a device which turns the headlight switch on in the event of an impact!
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Could it not also be that they are also refering to indicators, such as the disscussion about lack of indicating right on mini RB's, also if I say your headlights were baddly aimed and distracted me and you claimed they were on and indeed the bulbs and Headlamp units were found to cause a huge distraction or were the wrong wattage 80/100 say, then you could be held part liable for the accident. or say a invisable road user was hit and you claimed to have your lights on yet again you contributed to the accident. Remember insurance companys want to find a reason to not pay - I know someone who works on this angle and if you say on taking out your insurance you will only travel 6000 miles yet have covered 8000 miles thats it they won't pay. During the day most insurance companys prefer headlights off as it is seen as pointless for them to be on but it probably makes no difference to the outcome in daylight hours, yet at night it is a different story - the insurance claim form is generic for day and night use so the lights question has more to do with night than day.
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Don't people talk some total and utter piffle about the practices of the insurance industry based on 2nd and 3rd hand accounts.
Still, the actual workings of an insurance claim don't make for interesting pub talk, but a beefed-up version gets people's attention.
$$
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All I can say is that the insurance company's only ask questions for one reason.
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If daytime running lights do work, it is only while a minority of drivers use them. A car with lights on would stand out in a line of others who were unlit, but as soon as usage became total we would be back to square one again.
Then some burk would fit a flashing amber light to his roof and claim less people were pulling out on him and here we go again...
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If daytime running lights do work, it is only while a minority of drivers use them. A car with lights on would stand out in a line of others who were unlit, but as soon as usage became total we would be back to square one again. Then some burk would fit a flashing amber light to his roof and claim less people were pulling out on him and here we go again...
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Couldn't agree more, Why try to fix something that isn't broken.
One local bus company have daytime running lights, they claim that is has reduced a huge number of accidents, but the same chap also said that driver standards had also increased int he same period.
He claimed that people would get out of the way of a bus with headlights on, come on! we have two different companys that work from the same bus station and at school chucking out time during the summertime when it is still light I have seen no difference in the responce from the school children in fact more seem to get in the way of the buses with headlights on because the buses are slow,will stop and the children know it's there.
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The EU and European requirements vary considerably on Daytime running lights.
1.Legal requirement in Scandinavia.
2.Not legal on cars sold in the Netherlands.
3.Now required on all new cars sold in Italy.
4.They do not appear in German lighting regulations,so therefore must not be fitted(only lights in regs. are allowed).
5.They do not appear in British lighting regulations,so therefore they can be fitted(nothing bans them).
Simple isn't it.
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The EU and European requirements vary considerably on Daytime running lights. 1.Legal requirement in Scandinavia. 2.Not legal on cars sold in the Netherlands. 3.Now required on all new cars sold in Italy. 4.They do not appear in German lighting regulations,so therefore must not be fitted(only lights in regs. are allowed). 5.They do not appear in British lighting regulations,so therefore they can be fitted(nothing bans them). Simple isn't it.
so if I take a standard Volvo (bought her in the UK) to the Netherlands I stand the risk of being pulled by the police ?
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Not as a tourist or temporary visitor;your steering wheel would be on the wrong side to comply with their law too.And I said "sold" in the Netherlands.
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Well, EU has just decided to make permanent headlights on law in all 'states'. 'States' now have to make proposals of how they eill meet the EU law. New cars sold from 2015 will have to have headlights permanently on!
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oh well - they obviously want us to spend more money on driving!!
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I think DNLs are a good idea.. and the comment :-"Anyone who can't see a vehicle in daylight unless it was lit would not make it to the end of their road without hitting something anyway, so I don't really see the advantage.":-
was obviously written in a hurry:-)
Anyone driven in a tree lined road in bright conditions? A black or dark car can be almost invisible in shade when the eyes are narrowed due to glare in the lit parts of the raod.
Having said that: the muppets who drive with badly adjusted headlmaps hurt my eyes. In day or night time.
As for pedestrians being less visible? If motorists stopped for pedestrians at zebra crossings life would be less hazardous. Pity the traffic police don't exist..
madf
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Well, EU has just decided to make permanent headlights on law in all 'states'.
>>New cars sold from 2015 will have to have headlights permanently on!
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I guess it is too much to ask for a complementary law that says it must be possible for Joe Public to change any bulb, except HIDS and side repeaters without tools.
Oh!!!, and front fog lights would also be exempt.
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I was thinking about this while in the bath yesterday. The government claim that world will end soon partly due to the TV using 1.5w on standby and putting a bit too much water in a kettle. Well why are they then deciding we need to burn 100W all day long on millions of vehicles? That's a probably 0.1 kW/h per car per day in the UK alone.
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Surely the government is trying to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from power stations. Using lights on the car does not do this as the battery is recharged through the alternator as it is driven.
Driving the car is a different matter and clearly should be discouraged...
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A fair while ago i read that volvo did a test regarding energy consumption by having dalylight running lights on - worked out to 0.05% extra so pretty much negligible.
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my elderly nebiour was hit by a volvo after puling out in front of it, thinking the flashing of the volvo headlights was a signal by the volvo driver to let him out.
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Ahem, where do you think the power for the laternator comes from?
100W is 100W whether it be from an engine-driven alternator or power station, still the same number of joules. Then there's the wastage overhead as neither are close to 100% efficient.
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