Please keep this discussion to the subject of flood damaged vehicles. References to the recent disaster in the US should be respectful of the tragic loss of hundreds, possibly thousands of lives, and to the conditions that both residents and rescue services are facing.
We will edit posts here as we see fit, but your help in ensuring we don't have to would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Hugo - BR Moderator
Flood relics to hit the road
Buyer beware: That used car might be a Katrina survivor
By Jim Mateja
Tribune auto reporter
Published September 9, 2005
If you shop for a used car several months from now, you might want to give the carpet an extra close sniff.
You could be purchasing a dried-out casualty of Hurricane Katrina.
Whether acting as entrepreneurs or scam artists, wholesale car dealers soon will be scouring the ruins of New Orleans, Mississippi and Alabama for flood-damaged vehicles. They will obtain the cars for pennies, refurbish them and then sell them to buyers, some of whom won't be told of their purchase's waterlogged history.
Chicagoland is a target for such damaged vehicles with its large population.
"Whenever there's been a natural disaster, Chicagoans have had to beware," said Jerry Cizek, president of the Chicago Automobile Trade Association, which represents more than 700 new-car dealers in the area.
For example, days after Mt. St. Helens erupted in 1980, cars still soiled with volcanic ash arrived here on trailers as entrepreneurs prepared to peddle them.
Though Cizek expects most vehicles will be damaged beyond repair, there are estimates that 250,000 to 500,000 of the 2 million vehicles in the Gulf Coast floods will be salvaged.
The problem is not necessarily the practice of refurbishing the cars; it is whether the cars are identified as being salvaged.
It begins when insurance companies rule cars a total loss and make settlement payments to dealers or private owners. They, in turn, sell the vehicles cheap at auction, after which the car's title is branded as a "flood" or "salvage" vehicle.
But some opportunists will take those vehicles to different states that don't require the cars to list its previous condition on the title. With its history wiped clean, they are moved again, ending up for sale in places such as Chicago.
Ray Scarpelli, an Antioch Chevrolet dealer, said that Gulf Coast cars probably will show up in Chicago in about three months because it will take time to dry them out and get them running again by replacing computer electronics. But the evidence can't be completely covered up.
"You may get the stink out with shampoo, but come the first hot day the smell will be back--and you can never get all the moisture out of an engine," Scarpelli said.
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Hmmm
I wonder if you can truly take a flooded car and dry it out and change internal fittings, so that you could never tell. I'm sure you can, but will it ever be cost effective to do it properly and legally?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Whatever happened to that ship that sank in the Channel full of Audis and SAABs?
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"Whatever happened to that ship that sank in the Channel full of Audis and SAABs?"
That boat was eventually raised, I remember seeing photos of the car decks in the German Auto Bild magazine. The cars were trashed of course, dunno about the ship. In cases like that I think they patch em up and sell em cheap to poor countries.
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>>>That boat was eventually raised<<<
I believe I am correct in that the Tricolor was not raised. It was actually cut into sections which were removed separately. I am sure I have some pictures of the operation somewhere; a most amazing feat.
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It was big business in Dresden after the floods,I looked at a Citroen XM that had been dried out took a lot of work but you could not tell.I suppose it depends on what it was that flooded the car clean water I guess is a different proposition to some of the stuff that was floating around New Orleans
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I am fairly sure that due to the highly toxic nature of the floodwater, the authorities will impound all salvage (including cars) as a health risk.
Edited by Hugo - BR Moderator
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I began thinking about this myself and at first thought "Dry it out, easy!". However, working back to front on cars I soon realised:
- Exhaust will be full of water, and may have rotted out by now, this includes usually 'dry' components such as the catalyst.
- Spare wheel well may be full of water for days or weeks after the water has drained.
- Sills will be flooded and may have started to corrode in places where manufacturers think "it'll never rain in there".
- Interior trim made from cardboard/plywood will be sodden and worthless.
- Wheel bearings will be washed out and won't last long.
- Engine/gearbox will be a wreck. All internal surfaces will be wet and oxidised/rusty. I would have thought a rebuild on each of those vehicles was required.
- Electrics will be a mess. Battery may have leaked acid all over the engine bay and many connections will have corroded.
Dismantle the cars for spares yes, but it would take a madman to buy them for reconditioning and resale!
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Mike Farrow
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I thought at first this aspect would hardly concern us in the UK. Then I had the horrid thought that an enthusiasts' type of car might be cycled through a few states and eventually be advertised in an enthusiasts' magazine here, probably as a "dry-state" car!
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Was having a discussion bout this with SWMBo the other day and you just can't begin to understand the enormity of the situation. In keeping with the subject topic, if my house, car and all possessions had got washed away, where do you start? Would I actually remember who my insurance company was without any paperwork? Would they need to recover the wreck of the car to prove its damage? How do I prove who I am?
And we worry cos our fuel is going up in price!
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Just thinking on a bit further - would it be useful to have your own web site, as offered by many providers, and scan in all your official documents etc, even pictures of your possessions, so that if a tragedy like this does happen, then as long as you can get to a computer you could at least start to progress any claims etc?
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That's exactly what we've done at home. Our insurance documents etc. and details of my parents bank accounts (should the worst happen) and savings are either scanned or typed up, and then stored in a private directory on my webserver over in Houston.
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And we worry cos our fuel is going up in price!
Exactly.
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>>and savings are either scanned or typed up, and then stored in a private directory on my webserver over in Houston.
Judging by events so far,I really wonder why anyone counts what they have, tries to save in an uncertain environment from which is becoming so unstable of which anything can happen.Makes you think its better to be alive than worry about econonomics that may not exist after a disaster
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Steve
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tinyurl.com/jfg0
Those Tricolor cars were ruined.
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Sorry for any typos Im very long sited
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tinyurl.com/jfg0 Those Tricolor cars were ruined. -- Sorry for any typos Im very long sited
Whatever device they used to slice that ship in half must have been an awesome sight, I love how it's even chopped clean through the Volvo estate!
Those cars didn't seem that rusty though considering how long they had spend underwater.
Blue
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>>>Whatever device they used to slice that ship in half must have been an awesome sigh<<<
It was basically wire erosion on a massive scale, using a very big wire stretched from between two surface vessels, under the sunken vessel, and dragged back and forth to saw through the whole thing. Incredible.
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It raises the question about the flash floods we experience and the damage to cars.
Quite a number were damaged in Carlisle, and I remember seeing on television one second hand car dealer loosing all his stock. The insurance assessor wrote the whole lot off as the force of the water also damaged many of the body panels.
Near the fringes of the flooded area there must have been vehicles that were only flooded and could have been "cleaned up" for resale.
In this country I know that damage can be noted on the DVLA register, but there are some who never check a car's history as it's such a bargain.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to add to the thread.
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