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Please will one of our legal BR members, or anyone else who knows, please tell me what decides whether non-payers of fines, parking tickets, congestion charge, speeding fines etc are sent to prison or have the bailiffs set upon them? Viv a vis the 159 mph police driver (Thread elsewhere) the D Tgraph today gave a list of what had happened to other speeders. This included the man who was fined and given points for doing 38 in a 30 limit. He said it was badly signed and refused to pay and got 7 days in prison. What decided that he could or should go to prison rather than having the bailiffs in to take away his TV or whatever, in settlement of the debt. I am asking because I am contemplating similar protest action and I want to know which way events might go!
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Bailiffs.
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Very concise Mark, thank you. Then why did the speeder in Derbyshire go to prison rather than losing his TV or washing machine?
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I?d rather do 7 days of porridge than lose my widescreen
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Now that I couldn't tell you. Could have been a suspended sentance, could have been the guy had no goods to seize, perhaps its that magistrates have a choice what course of action they take.
However, my neighbour got a speeding fine, from a court, about 1 year ago. He forgot to pay the fine. The Bailiffs visited him at 6:00 am the other morning - I know because they got the wrong farm and initially came to mine.
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"He forgot to pay the fine. The Bailiffs visited him at 6:00 am the other morning - I know because they got the wrong farm and initially came to mine."
yes yes yes, pull the other one, wrong farm indeed.
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what decides whether non-payers of fines, are sent to prison or have the bailiffs set upon them?
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Short answer is you do as 'the defendant' in that if you 'lose' your case @ Court and get 'fined' the Court will ask you how you wish to pay. If you elect to pay the fine, and then if you don't pay, the Bailiff's come round and sieze goods to the vlaue of the fine + Costs.
If you pay the fine as agreed, then job done. For those who refuse to pay the fine or cannot pay, the Court will send them to Prison by calculating the amount of fine was/is to how many days you should spend in prison plus anything else for 'Contempt of Court'.
So you decide what happens. If the case goes against you and you don't want to pay the fine, then by all means go to prison for a few days to prove your merry point.
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Im not plain stupid, just a special kind of stoopid.
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Very complex subject AS but nutshell:
Where a person is charged with a criminal offence and fine imposed at Magistrates Court and that is not paid then there is whole load of options available to Their Worships working through and with an appointed Fines Collection Officer under The Courts Act 2003 to recover said amounts. These range from Attachment of Earnings Order, Distress Order authorising sale of personal goods to recover the amount, Vehicle Clamping Order and sale, Unpaid Work Order, finally with no cooperation from defaulter the utmost sanction and last resort of imprisonment for a certain amount of time. So many days equals so many pounds.
Certain other traffic offences such as parking, no waiting (where LA have applied for and been granted Permitted Parking and Special Parking Area Orders which decriminalise parking etc)
Congestion Charge, the charges for these transgressions do not touch a Magistrates Court but recovery is through a County Court as a debt and therefore could invoke calling in the baliffs.
DVD
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There has been a very interesting series on BBC 1 on Monday evenings, called Bailiffs. One guy had to pay £500+ for a £50 fine or charge, because he didn't pay the original fine or charge and all the costs are just added on. One man had his Audi towed away at an extra cost of £120 because he hadn't paid.
Years ago, I had a friend who used to do this - he thought it was stupid to pay the fine when it was imposed - I thought it was stupid not to!
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Am I correct in thinking that if you don't pay the fine and do the time, you still owe the fine?
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Time in prison cancels debt as it is a punishment is it not?
DVD
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I don't think so DVD. Or at least not neccessarily so.
It is quite possible that the time in prison is punishment for the offence of non-payment of fine. The punishment for the original offence is the fine and that stands.
I am sure that people have been up in front of the beak more than once on the same fine.
Although they can cancel the debt if they wish - i.e. 5 days for non-payment and 5 days in lieu of the fine = 10 days.
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If you do time for a fine that is the end of it,I know that for a fact,I have done it myself(point of principle).
Years ago you could be sent to prison for debt and still owe it when you came out.A friend of mine used to go inside every year for refusing to pay maintenance to his ex-wife.
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Instead of punishment may be I should have shown "reparation" ?
Time in pokey cancels the outstanding fine.
DVD
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prison time given for none payment of fines does indeed wipe out the fine. however time given for none payment of civil debts like the poll tax does not you still owe the money although most authorities will not pursue the matter. this i know from experience...cheers...keo.
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I remember reading a few years ago about a guy in Sydney who had gone to jail rather than paying a fine. He was attacked in the exercise yard by some crims and severly beaten. I think he died. All for not paying a fine. I don't think jail would be an easy option. I would rather pay the money or better still not do the offence.
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My father who is 78, just picked up 2 speeding convictions (via mobile revenue cameras), on the M4 in 2 days ! On both he was only doing about 80 mph.
He asked me, if I get another set of points 'should I go to jail' or just pay up. My view was given his circumstances, ie retired, plenty of spare time etc, on a matter of principle that's what I would do.
The reason being, if a lot more people did this, ie clog up the courts/prisons with speeding cases, not to mention a 78 year old sent to prison for a speeding conviction, perhaps the absurdity of the situation could finally come to light. I think the papers would love a story like this !!
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Sorry but he's done the crime so just pay the fine - these camera's have been widely reported and i presume there are also signs warning of speed camera's so he should have little reason to complain.
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And coming soon; the National Enforcement Service.
www.cjsonline.org/the_cjs/whats_new/news-3136.html
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It's interesting that the service "will focus on a hardcore of offenders". Who is leading it -- Barney Rubble? Or do they mean a hard core? OK, OK, back to Pedants' Corner then . . .
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My father who is 78, just picked up 2 speeding convictions (via mobile revenue cameras), on the M4 in 2 days ! On both he was only doing about 80 mph.
What did he think the speed limit was?
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I have to say the thought of your 78 year old father doing 80 on the m4 terrifies me!
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Please, RF, don't start that topic all over again. Us codgers might just rise in revolt. I'm not trading in my 2 litre Mégane for a scooter just yet.
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