Have a read, and see what you think, and learn!
Out in the car other week.
Come up to a roundabout and stop on left hand lane (i.e kerbside before the roundabout to let traffic on roundabout pass as I wanted to take the first exit of the roundabout)
Hear a bang as a car collides with my rear, so pull over to side off the roundabout and get out. My car seems to have suffered no damaged, with the front end of the other car dented (the other car went under my rear end). Out comes a elderly guy (late 80s), who is very apologetic and admits that he just couldnt stop in time. Due to the guys age and mobility, the main concern for all of us, was to get him on his way, rather than leave him stranded. Luckily, a neighbout provided assistance in arranging recovery of the other guys car which was immobile due to a damaged radiator.
As there was no apparant damaged to my vehicle at the time of the accident, no need for a claim from me, and clear liability it all seemed quite simple.
In actual fact on closer inspection there is damage to the rear bumper/mouldings, but not something that you would normally have repaired due to it being minor (misalignement rather than bent), but something that would come out with a £600+ bill from body shop.
I then get a letter from the other guys insurance who claims that my vehicle cut in front of his vehicle whilst on the roundabout, and that they consider that I am fully liable!
Write back, and tell then the facts as above (i.e their insured rear ended me after I had stopped) and that the other guy had admitted liability, and that the damaged was seen by a witness.
Their insurance writes back, and claims that they driver never admitted liability, and that I cut from the outside into the inside lane in front of their insured vehicle whilst on the roundabout! This is clearly ficticious, as I had stopped prior to entering the roundabout, when he rear ended me, and they are still persuing full costs!
In fact the damage to my rear end is on the left hand side and corner moulding of the bumper, which is the opposite side to where the damaged would have occured based on the other drivers claim!
In the event of any accident, it dont have any concern for the other driver! and make sure you look after your own back! A police report wouldnt be a bad idea no matter how small or simple the matter appears!
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Mrs S had an incident when a driver (insured with Saga, but not as old as yours) rolled into her in a petrol stn. He admitted liability and offered to settle without insurance, as there was little visible damage (it was wet & dark...).
When car was assessed at Ford body shop the invisible damage ran into many hundreds of pounds (over £700 IIRC). Obviously Sagaman didn't want to do this "off insurance" and was elusive about providing details. Eventually Direct Line caught up with him, but we were out of pocket for the excess for some considerable months.
Some years ago my Rover 827 (yes, I flew the flag, once!) was rear ended on teh motorway. Again, not a lot of visible damage but I took details. When the car went in for inspection the whole boot floor pan was buckled...
I'd agree - just because there doesn't appear to be much damage don't assume there isn't any!
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My view of car insurance is that these are the sort of things that I pay them to sort. If I am involved in an accident I report the matter to them (in accordance with their rules) regardless of whether I wish to make a claim or not. If my car is damaged, regardless of whose fault it was or of whoever says what, then I make a claim. I never discuss blame with the other party; I merely do what I have to which is exchange names and addresses. I sleep peacefully and my insurers sort it ~ it's what I pay them to do. Admittedly I have a protected NCB that does not limit the number of claims that I can make. And making a claim does not affect my next premium. CIS ~ great company.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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The game seems to be that insurance companies routinely 'try it on', i.e. try to assign blame to everyone except their own insured driver, totally regardless of circumstances.
I'm not sure how it's possible for a car already on a roundabout to be at fault for colliding with another car entering the roundabout who failed to stop in time.
I'm not sure how the other insurance company apparently knows that you were on the roundabout when you were not.
Oz (as was)
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<< A police report wouldnt be a bad idea nomatter how small or simple the matter appears!
Unless there is personal injury, the police are generally not interested. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to report any accident to the police unless personal injury has occurred.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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<< A police report wouldnt be a bad idea no >> matter how small or simple the matter appears! >>
Having thought about it further, I personally would be very wary about reporting any accident to the police unless I was legally required to do so. Even if you are the innocent party you can't guarantee that the police would come down on your side. It might depend on what hassle the investigating officer would get as a result of you reporting the accident. Some people are "anything for a quiet life". Police officers are not all paragons of virtue.
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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HAd a not dissimmilsr event about 5 years ago.
On A14 At j7 going for lunch with a friend from work, I stopped in the left lane on the approach to a roundabout with a courier lorry in the right hand lane.
I was leaving on the second exit which was actually 90 deg left and the right lane is clearly marked as right turn. I didn't take off particularly quickly and Wagon was alongside me and decided he would take second exit and rand his near side wheel studs along the offside rear door and quarter panel of my company car.
Guy jumps out of lorry, really apologetic, "sorry mate I didn't see you in my mirror". Noone hurtso we exchange details and go on our merry way.
I reported accident to comapny insurance and leave them to sort out the datails and I get car repaired.
4 months later I get made redundant and ask company fo letter from company car insurance confirming my 11 years employment and driving of a company car with accident free record but it turns out, unknown to me, that the insurance had decide it was knock for knock. Guy had claimed he was already on the roundabout and I had passed him on the outside.
The REALLY annoying bit was that I was never given the chance to arfue my case and the company were not prepared to fight it because by the time I queried it I was an ex employee!
That cost me having to build a no claims bonus from scratch and meant I had to re-evaluate what car I was going to buy.
Moral: Get witnesses or worst scenario scream injury and get the police out.
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Always carry a camera in the car.
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Always carry a camera in the car.
I always carry a single-use camera.
The first time (after I got the camera) that someone ran into the back of my car I was so shaken (and shaking!) that the photos would have been useless as evidence anyway!
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L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I have to agree. You think making a fuss for a simple matter is excessive - but from experience it is nessesary.
Leaving it to your insurer to sort out is not the best way. You insurance company does not always work for you. If the other party is insistant on some other facts, then eventually your insurance will agree to pay half the claim.
If you think about it, your insurer pays half the claim, they get an easy settlemt, both get the excess, gain from reduction of NCB and increase of premium from having a previous claim. A similar situation then ocurrs with another driver (the other way round) where they get 1/2 costs for damaged caused by their insured driver, so you insurance is no worse off for paying out with your original claim.
End result, you insurance has paid not paid out more that the would if you were found not liable, and there are two driver with less NCB and more claim to get a higher premium!
As the first vehicle was stationary at a junction, the second vehicle behine is clear at fault for running in behind. For the driver at fault to make such wild claims as being on the roundabout is clearly a false claim to attempt to save their own NCB! Personally if this was resolve and the other driver found to be at fault (which he is!) I would invalidate the insurance for making false claim and not even pay for the damage.
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As I have said before on this site always carry a disposable camera and a dictaphone. Accident happens turn it on and put it in your pocket look for a whitness, take photos of other party and both cars then walk away and take a locality shot exchange details, reg number etc, I carry a proforma for this, go home or where ever report accident, ring police and report as appropriate, if the accident is seriuos or any injury call police to scene. Regards Peter
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always carry adisposable camera and a dictaphone. Accident happens turn it on and put it in your pocket look for a whitness,
If you record a witness without their knowledge/consent, is it legal? (or aceptable to police,insurance etc?)
WTM
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If you record a witness without their knowledge/consent, is it legal? (or aceptable to police,insurance etc?)
Interesting question. How does this work? Speaking for myself, I am always frustrated by SWMBO's (all women's?) apparent ability to remember conversations blow-by-blow ("I said ... then he said ... then I said ..."). A recording would at least help to get thoughts in order after a stressful experience.
Oz (as was)
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SimonJ, Deja-vu or what ! Exactly the same accident happened to me about twenty-five years ago, except the old guy who ran into me damaged my car badly. When I asked for his insurance details he showed me a cover note (he'd only had the car 2 days) and when my insurance company contacted his insurance company, they had never heard of him. Apparently he'd taken out third party insurance with a local broker, who gave him a cover note upon paying a deposit, then he cancelled the insurance on the day of the accident, before the broker had sent it off to the insurance company. Because his car was beyond economical repair he decided not to repair it, so he didn't need the insurance policy any longer. When I contacted him he told me the above story about the cover note but wouldn't tell me who or where the broker was. He just told me to sue him and that I wouldn't get anything anyway because he was on a pension. Being a bit young and naive at the time I resorted to getting a mate to fix my car out of my own pocket. My insurance company did not want to know, as I only had a third party, fire and theft policy and no legal protection. The police didn't want to know because no one was injured. Weighing it up the legal costs would have probably exceeded the repair costs if I had tried to sue ,so I was in a no-win situation.
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Weighing it up the legal costs would have probably exceeded the repair costs if I had tried to sue
Nah, £70 for the small claims path throught the courts and you can start it online. I've used it twice and just the papers arriving at th eother end have settled my claims in no time.
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