Thu 29 Nov 2001 14:02 Dirty Diesels - Vin

Sorry to start a new thread, but this deserves to be read, not buried at the end of an old thread. If you see a dirty diesel, either HGV or PSV, note its reg number, vehicle type, location and time (all with the one hand that's not using the mobile) then when you've stopped, call the government's Dirty Diesel Hotline, telephone 020 8665 0885. Unfortunately, "All their operators were busy", so I couldn't ask what they do. Their message says leave those details and they will "action" it. Might be worth a try. V Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 14:09 Re: Dirty Diesels - Andy P

Pity it doesn't cover cars as well. Andy Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 15:48 Re: Dirty Diesels - MPA 2605

What about the thousands of old diesel cars that belch out clouds of crap? Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 18:54 Re: Dirty Diesels - Richard P I would be far more concerned about older petrol engined cars. Petrol cars produce poisionous gases and particulates too, smaller ones in fact which bypass the bodies natural filtration systems (I think a persons body filters out particles over 10 microns before they get to the lungs). Diesel exhaust is sometimes seen due to the larger particulates. OK older trucks and buses have given diesel a bad name in the past, but that has changed remarkably over the last few years. Also a diesel does not produce carbon monoxide.....try commiting suicide in a diesel car....it wont work unless you drive into a tree really fast!! Reply | Report as offensive | Link Fri 30 Nov 2001 13:32 Re: Dirty Diesels - John Slaughter I have my doubts about the 'no CO' from a diesel statement. I realise that diesels run very lean, which will tend to minimise CO production. So, normally they will produce a small amount of CO, but certainly not zero. However, carbon monoxide production is increased whenever there is inefficient combustion - for industrial plant, it is often used as an indicator of combustion efficiency. Where there are visible emissions, there has been inefficient combustion. So, I reckon that there will be measurable amounts of CO produced when a diesel is producing visible smoke. Regards JS Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 16:42 Re: Dirty Diesels - Richard Hall

This idea of getting the public to do the police's work for them isn't going very well, is it? All big diesels put out some black smoke when worked hard, and the chances of Joe Public being able to tell what is excessive and what isn't, are pretty slim I'd say. The environmentalists will report anything producing any visible smoke at all, hence the phone lines being jammed. A pain in the behind for HGV operators, who will presumably be ordered to take any reported vehicle off the road until it has been smoke tested. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 17:14 Re: Dirty Diesels - Brian

Will this also apply to trains? Just watch your nice "environmentally friendly" inter-city pulling out of the station. And aeroplanes on take-off? Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 17:42 Re: Dirty Diesels - ChrisR

Inter-City trains do make smoke, but they carry 800 people, and the engine is not much more than ticking over at cruising speed. The same feat would need a minimum of 200 saloon cars. In the real world there would be 700 stuck in a jam of their own making on the M1. Which is more efficient, I wonder? Chris Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 17:49 Re: Dirty Diesels - Dave ChrisR wrote: > > Inter-City trains do make smoke, but they carry 800 people At rush hour they carry 800. Rest of the day they are empty. Reply | Report as offensive | Link Fri 30 Nov 2001 13:42 Re: Dirty Diesels - Dan J Yeah, but look at the amount of smoke and cr@p produced by the train when it is running. You do get the occasional very new train which manages to pull off with minimum smoke, but some of the old clonkers (Virgin long distant trains are a very good example, as a lot of the old 50's freight trains) create so much thick black smoke you can't see for about 2 miles behind them. Usual kind of thing though really - "blame those on the roads"... Everyone neglects the fact that a ridiculous percentage of the pollutants released into the air aren't from your catalysed car at all, but from the many thousands of unchecked industrial plants the world over Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 18:02 Re: Dirty Diesels - Andrew Moorey (Tune-Up Ltd.)

This line is not just for LGV's, they are just as happy to hear about cars. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 19:14 Re: Dirty Diesels - Marman The 020 number is not freephone or local rate is it? Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 20:34 Re: Dirty Diesels - Simon Saxton

Absolutely correct Richard P.The public are sadly unaware of the relative harmless emissions of modern diesels. Sadly fuelled by dyed in the wool media hacks.I freely admit to having subscribed to their beliefs until I started looking.reading & learning & realising that it is in fact misinformation. regards Simon Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 29 Nov 2001 20:46 Re: Dirty Diesels - David W Well I hope there isn't a snitch between here and my MOT station in the local town four miles away. If there was almost every TD I take for test that belongs to a respectable pillar of society will be reported as I dump the soot on the way to get them an MOT pass. David Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 30 Nov 2001 00:59 Re: Dirty Diesels - Guy Lacey

Yeah. I'd like to report; A Mrs Lacey, wife (to be), of Mr David Lacey driving an R-reg Audi A4 TDI Avant in blue with scratched upgrade and "trolley pack" from Sainsbury's car park. Seems to smoke only when driven by Mr Lacey. However, I'd like to commend Mr G.Lacey for driving an LPG fuelled car as championed by his local council. Well done Mr L. 50% Council Tax discount on its way to you as we speak. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 30 Nov 2001 14:20 Re: Dirty Diesels - Brian

And most of the CO2 produced in the UK comes from lighting and heating your home and workplace! Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 30 Nov 2001 15:03 Re: Dirty Diesels - Dan J One of the main contributors of CO2 to the environment is people so if you wish to significantly reduce levels you can see what the answer is... Let's hope Mr G Brown doesn't latch onto this as we'll end up with tax on the number of offspring we produce - maybe even end up having to be tested for CO2 output and taxed along similar lines as company car drivers. As for people such as David W (who will become "thoughtless and uncaring individuals") who own a pony, I'd get saving now... :-) Reply | Report as offensive | Link Fri 30 Nov 2001 15:10 Re: Dirty Diesels - ChrisR I agree many trains are badly maintained. Worse in the last few years I think. But they are also doing a LOT of work for the amount of pollution they produce. You can't compare an average artic. with an average freight train and say the train is more polluting. You'd have to compare sixty or seventy artics. with one train. I reckon even a badly maintained diesel locomotive is competitive in terms of fuel efficiency and pollution with seventy brand new artics. It's just that when it makes smoke it makes it all in the same place. Then there's the electricity issue. Complete nightmare on the roads - pollution from batteries, short range only etc., etc. Works a treat on the rails, and has for a hundred years, give or take. We've completely lashed up the relationship between road, rail and other kinds of transport, in the last twenty to thirty years. Setting one against the other isn't the answer, since they are each good at different things. Problem is, the car makers and oil companies have had it all their own own way for a long time. Only now, when the roads are becoming unusable in many places, are the stupid British realizing what they've lost. Chris (who is a stupid Brit.) Reply | Report as offensive | Link Fri 30 Nov 2001 19:16 Re: Dirty Diesels - Diesel Dave BLASTPHEMY! Dirty diesels indeed ? Can you imagine if they had invented / perfected the diesel engine first, and somebody came along and said" Weve invented this petrol engine - it uses twice as much fuel, and it needs all these complex electrics to generate a spark at just the right time etc etc..." Any badly maintained vehicle will produce loads of filthy fumes - wait until you get behind an old Ford Sierra or similar, that really stinks and is worse to breathe in. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 1 Dec 2001 00:46 Re: Dirty Diesels - Brian

DanJ I am glad that you brought that up, because I typed it in then chickened out and deleted it. How many of the green brigade sit in their communes three or more kids, increasing the country's population by at least 50% in a generation?. Do they think that their 3 or more replacements are going to live in the same space and use only the same resources as the 2 of them do?. Reply | Report as offensive | Link