I just got back from spending 5 days in Finnish Lapland, where the temperature was between -15 and -25, and there was snow everywhere. Even though the roads had not been cleared, the coach still managed to travel everywhere at 90Kmph and was not phased by hills, both up and down. There were no cars dumped at the side of the road, and no vehicles had snow chains.
Ok, so these are conditions that they have for about 5 months of the year, and they are used to them, but it proved to me that it is possible to drive in snow with no problems.
I'm not looking forwards to the chaos that will ensue here when the first snow drops fall this year.
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They had winter tyres. Legally obliged to fit them in countries like that. Possibly even studded.
Do you wish to fork out for a set of winter tyres that might if you are lucky give you a benefit for 5 days out of 365?
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Yes they do have winter tyres and they are studded. My Wife is Finnish and all her relatives have 2 sets of wheels, winter and summer. With studded tyres there is not too much difference than driving on snow-free roads. I heve never seen a Finnish road - even a minor road - blocked by snow as they have a well organised system of road clearing.
Keep upright
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The main reason that we can not cope with snow is that we usually get ours in an ambient around freezing point and it readily thaws when squeezed by tyres. The layer of water is what mkes it very slippery.
When below -4C or so (IIRC) the coefficint of friction is similar to dry glass, ie not too bad.
The older motorists will remember when we'd the white stuff lying for weeks at well below zero up in these northern hills it was not bad at all. I'd a Mini on Michelin ZXs and commuted easily from Buxton to Sheffield despite the road being blanketed with snow. Last winter I stopped my car on a hill -just- and the car proceeded to sledge down the hill ,whels locked. Off the brakes and steered gently into the kerb.
Am thinking of geting a pair of Vredestein winter tyres for the front of the Passat- what are they like for 99.99% of the time when temperature is above freezing?
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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Am thinking of geting a pair of Vredestein winter tyres for the front of the Passat- what are they like for 99.99% of the time when temperature is above freezing? --
Have just bought winter tyres for my Vectra. Had them fitted them to steels and plan to store the alloys and normal tyres for the winter in the next few weeks. I got a good price of £270 for four Avon CR85's (195x65x15) inc. balancing.
The literature says that they are designed to perform better than summer tyres at temperatures lower than about 11 deg.C. As it's rare that we have temperatures exceeding 11 deg. in winter, I think they make good sense. They're not just for driving on snow, the tread pattern means they displace water much better than standard tyres - ideal for our wet winters. After reading other Backroomer's comments, people who run them in winter seem to have nothing but praise.
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What a coincidence. This morning I happened to pick up the Avon brochure that came with my tyre a few weeks ago, and was reading about winter tyres.
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cabsman - the same thing happens in Switzerland, at least the hilly parts. Local garages will swop your set of tyres on demand and store the spare set until next time for a small fee.
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Are these studs visible to the eye, as I looked at the coach tyres and they looked like standard tyres to me. The roads were not snow free. It was very compacted though. Even when reindeer stepped out into the road the coaches managed to stop with no trouble.
Santas helper did say that when the snow falls in Southern Finland that the region grinds to a halt, but it's nothing to those north of the Arctic Circle in Lapland.
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Even when reindeer stepped out into the road the coaches managed to stop with no trouble.
The driver probably saw the red nosed one miles ahead!
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Sometimes at very low temperatures like those encountered in the arctic circle, the snow can be quite grippy - almost sticky in fact as there is very little humidity at -30c and compacted snow at this temp is not too dissimilar to tarmac to drive on.
I have a friend in norway who likes to laugh at us brits grinding to a halt in the winter on the roads
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Yep, only this weekend just taken my allows off and fitted my winter tyres Pirella M&S's on the rear and a new pair of Alaska Flamingos on the front ( £35 a side 185/65/14, trade ). Looking forward to Sking weekends up at the Nevis Range. Getting out of the house we use up there at weekends can be very tricky so also carry snow chains. Bring on the snow. Regards Peter
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For those of us who don't have chains or special tyres, what is the best way to drive on snow? (For the couple of days a year that it matters, that is!)
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For those of us who don't have chains or special tyres, what is the best way to drive on snow? (For the couple of days a year that it matters, that is!)
Gently, in a high gear.
Which is not usually difficult, given that there will in all probability be a queue of slow-moving traffic ahead of you.
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Letting some air out of your tyres helps on snow if you are stuck. 3 to 7 psi depending on the type size does the trick put remember to pump them up again before you resume normal driving or motorway speeds. Regards Peter
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I am not arguing with you Peter, but I have read in some motoring magazine or other that you should always have tyres inflated at the recommended pressure, regardless of the conditions. I am, however, perfectly prepared to be corrected by anyone who knows better.
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Mr T,
Legally you are correct but the theory behind lowering the tyre pressures is to improve the footprint area of the tyres.
If you've ever seen those big foot trucks being driven over the glaciers in Iceland you will see the principle quite clearly.
Quite clever how they pop the tyres back on the rim if necessary using hair lacquer and a match!
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"improve the footprint area of the tyres"
So flatter wider tyres are better in snow? Doesn't seem that way with the rally boys - or am I missing something? (like studs?)
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Never been caught out in snow. You know it's there.
It was some black ice on a backroad where I found out about driving with no traction..... all of a sudden!
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Yes you are supposed to maintian the correct type pressure but there you are trying to get up hill or whatever and you are stuck. The decreased type pressure caused the tread pattern to walk more and the snow hving been compressed in the closing tread and then on opening it dumps the snow out of the pattern thus improving grip. Being a regular skier up here in Scotland I've resued many a driver by letting the tyres down for the couple of miles or so he is out of trouble then pumping them back up again with a compressor. Regrards Peter
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I agree with you Peter, it has worked for me a couple of times in the past. Does no harm for a couple of mile to get you out of trouble.
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Try not to drive too slowly - many blocked roads are caused by people moving at walking pace, then not being able to get up even the slightest incline. Try to get up to 20-30mph.
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Totally agree, having spent 7 winters in northern Norway ( Tromso area) you fnd that compacted snow is easy to drive on. Scandanavian HGV drivers run with chains on all winter, with studded front axle tyres, so on the road you tend to get nearsde and offside channels dug in the snow. This isn,t a problem if you,re driving a same axle width vehicle, but in any thing smaller the trick is to drive with the nearside wheeel in the nearside rut as it gives extra clearance from the opposite traffic, especially if they have trouble keeping in the ruts.
Also on hills give way to traffic coming down the hill, it,s easier to stop and let them pass than watch them slide to a halt in your font bumper and keep your distance from the car/vehicle in front.
Studded tyres are usefull, especially if the weather has warmed up, rained them refrozen as you get ice on snow and no amount of grit will help.
Forget first gear as the torque will spin the wheels, pull away in the highest gear possible, and when you stop keep it in gear and leave the handbrake off. If possible park on a slope, lead acid batteries loose 50% of their cranking capacity @-10 so you,ve got a fighting chance of bump starting.
If you do fit studded tyres replace them as soon as you,re out of the snow area and don,t do what we did a few years ago, driving on studded tyres suffered a blow out and rolled a Bedford TM Aviaton fuel Bowser on the M6 sending 18000 litres of fuel over both carrageways which in turn shut the motorway on a bank holiday.
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Found the best and most fun way of getting around in the snow over there was by skidoo, husky sleigh and reindeer sleigh. Enabled us to get up the hills through the forrest of pine trees to find the real Father Christmas and his elves. :-)
Merry Christmas
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The best tyre pressure depends on what the surface is.
Wet compacted snow/ice which is what you get usually in the UK, leave the tyres alone.
Fresh snow there is an advantage from lowering the pressure as the tread blocks clear better. Same is true in a muddy field.
Rally boys get out the studded bicycle tyres (ie narrow) for icy snow and very good they are too. However few of us have the luxury of a support team!
I've met cold hard ice in the UK, although not for some years and it is surprising how much grip you have.
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The problem is that in this country at least, your own driving is not normally the issue. That of the person sliding towards you typically is.
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Keeping vaguely on topic...is it just me, or does every taxi driver in Finland insist on throwing the rear end of the taxi out on every bend? Not sure if it's just to show off to the tourists, but I've had some 'exciting' journeys round Oulu / Helsinki over the years.
Fortunately I've only driven out there in summer ( i.e. July), the cobbled streets make for interesting cornering in some places! That and dodging the elks & reindeer, but then that's not too different to pony / cow dodging round the New Forest.
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Every Fin that can reach the steering wheel and pedals is a rally driver.
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The TCS (Swiss Touring Club - = AA/RAC) did some rserch (textspeak for research) a few years ago and, a la Which?, concluded that ordinary radial tyres are just as good for winter driving except for when driving in "Fresh snow" In other words, if its just ice - stick to ordinary tyres.
And no, chains are not compulsary in winter.
(I managed (albeit as a lunatic student) to visit ski resorts on a MOTORCYCLE! (Without chains)
But maybe the young are just fearless?
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