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I assume that ''Green means you may go on if the way is clear'' is referring to the way ahead, and does not mean one has to look to the right to see if someone is likely to jump a red light.
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I assume that ''Green means you may go on if the way is clear'' is referring to the way ahead, and does not mean one has to look to the right to see if someone is likely to jump a red light.
>
One would however be prudent to do so.
My concern with these is how easy it is to obey the wrong set of lights ie driver assumes that the light controlling the next limb of the junction is the repeater for his and proceeds when it turns green.
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My concern with these is how easy it is to obey the wrong set of lights ie driver assumes that the light controlling the next limb of the junction is the repeater for his and proceeds when it turns green.
Couldn't agree more. I hate these roundabouts, particularly the ones where the lights are only used at peak times. Adds even more confusion and potential for accidents.
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I'm not a sheep, if I'm being told to do something, I like to know why.
If I'm getting a red light because other traffic needs to cross a busy junction, that's fine. If the red light is some tool of the neo-marxist regime to "punish the driver" or as a "delay gate" or to increase congestion so that they can charge me £5 more a day to fill the communiust coffers, than they have a fight on their hands. No doubt I have just committed a 'though crime'.
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I too find traffic lights on roundabouts annoying and in most cases unnecesary, but this does not give me the right to ignore them.
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>>I assume that ''Green means you may go on if the way is clear''
>>is referring to the way ahead, and does not mean one has to look to the rightto see if someone is likely to jump a red light. One would however be prudent to do so.
I was prime witness to just such an event at a junction with the A30 dual carriage way.
I just missed the green phase and rolled to a halt at the white line. I was in the middle lane, the RH lane was right turn only and the traffic lights were of course at red.
A big bike would not wait in lane behind but was sitting in the right turn lane along side my OS wing. The lights turned green and I did not move but watched a van from the right jump the lights and the bike gun it into the side of the van. He disappered stage left at great speed. I do not think he looked right cos he was too intent in getting in front of me.
I spent a lot of time at the scene, giving statements, giving statements at the station and then much later a morning in court waiting. Then some spotty irk informs me that I was not wanted as I did not support the prosecution case so get your expenses and go.
As I was the prime witness and not called this has soured my view of British justice as I consider the biker was significantly at fault.
Needless to say I am not keen to be a witness again.
Rant off
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The "I proceed if it's safe and I'm alright JacK" contributors have missed the point. In the same way as the green light gives you prioroty over traffic from your right, the red light lets traffic entering ahead of you have a turn. Where two heavily trafficked roads converge at adjacent points on a roundabout, the traffic backs up on the second one. When this gets bad enough I can't see how you can sort it out without lights.
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There's a large roundabout near me with lights all over it. It started as peak hours only but is now 24/7. I leave for work at between 04:30 and 05:00 on a Monday and find myself sat there staring at an empty roundabout and a procession of red lights. I can see 400 yard to my right and have a clear view of the entire roundabout.
Without exception I stick two fingers up to the lights and carry on. I'm not alone in this; there are sometimes a few bods to be seen at that time of the morning and it seems we all adopt the "proceed with caution" approach.
I haven't noticed the visigoths at the gate as a result of my temerity so can only assume that civilised life as we know it will continue.
No Dosh
Most definitely NOT a moderator or spokesperson for HJ in the context of this post.
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The obvious answer is part-time signals. Perhaps there is a view that these are confusing.
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The obvious answer is part-time signals. Perhaps there is a view that these are confusing.
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Or flashing amber out of hours as abroad - proceed with caution
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I regularly visit three roundabouts with lights.
1/ Known locally as the London Colney roundabout, juction of A414, A1081 and minor road to London Colney. A good example as when you are on, it is usual to go right tound to your exit and have the lights favour you. Patently the phases are designed to do this.
2/ Roundabout above J5 of M1. not as good, but tolarable, if you go slowly and time it right, you can usually get round without out stopping.
3/ Roundabout off M25 at Thurrock (the second one). [Insert your own swear word] hopeless and extremly infuriating. Obviously phased to stop you as many times as possible, which in tern makes land disipline to the turning I want very difficult (too long to go into here). I've tried driving slowly, flogging the thing (only a Landrover, but TD5s can be made to move) and have concluded it is impossible in a car with normal performance. I think you might do it, in a serious sports car, but there is no way I would as you would have to throw the idea that you can stop in the available space out the window. Closed road, marshalled, like a hillclimb, I'd give it a go but actually I doubt I could, and my Morgan is much tweaked and running on race (just road legal) tyres.
Always makes me cross, that one
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Agree 110% with SP about Thurrock. The services there are on our halfway point to/from Dover and natural spot to change drivers, take pnb etc. Northbound not only do you contend with the roundabout but also have sequenced yourself correctly to be in the left bore of the dartford tunnel - ruling out use of the Auto Toll. Nightmare for the native Briton, right hand drive and done it before. What Johnny Foreigner makes of it is anybody's guess.
Easier to press on to South Mimms. And Welcome Break facilities are generally marginally preferable to Moto.
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The junction of the A406/A13 is particularly irritating in this respect. Unless they have altered it since I was last up that way, it is impossible to time your approach so you hit all green, unless you drive at a speed which is likely to have you dragged from the car and beaten to death. It takes forever to navigate the damn thing.
Peak times I can understand, but totally unnescessary to have this 24/7.
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"Easier to press on to South Mimms."
Or even the Sainsbury's/M&S "Superstore" at previous junction? There is a coffee place - Costas or Starbucks type and cafe and of course cheaper sandwiches etc
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Looked it up: Highway Code rule 161.
"When reaching the roundabout you should
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights "
V
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And because we're Brits we say hang common sense and lets all stand in line to await the next pointless rule in our lives.
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And because we're Brits we say hang common sense and lets all stand in line to await the next pointless rule in our lives.
The trouble with that line of thought is that when you meet another driver coming out of a junction who sees no point in following a 'pointless' Give Way rule, an accident occurs.
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Note the use of the term "Common sense".
A roundabout with clear vision for in excess of 150 yeards in all directions handled with caution vs. pulling out of a junction.
I'm tempted to use Growler's oft repeated phrase. "Nanny knows best"
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Note the use of the term "Common sense". A roundabout with clear vision for in excess of 150 yards in all directions handled with caution......
So in this situation, do you advocate ignoring a red light?
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At 4:30am with no traffic visible in any direction that's precisely what I do. I proceed with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic.
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I must say - I was surprised at reading this but after thinking about it, I actually agree. Lights OR a roundabout yes - but not both.
4:30am - don't need to be told when to negotiate a roundabout thank you very much but I can see how some people may not agree.
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Adam
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Can't agree with running a red, much as I sympathise with the misuse of traffic signals on roundabouts.
There are certain rules which are cast in stone - for very good reasons - red lights and solid white lines are two of them. If we are allowed to use our discretion on these things we might as well throw away the rule book and as we think fit.
You can imagine the result.
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You see, I can agree with that as well. Damn these discussion forums!!!
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Adam
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Handy Hints
11. Save time when crossing a one-way street by only looking in the direction of oncoming traffic.
- D. Rogers,
Hemel Hempstead
12. When crossing a one-way street always look in BOTH directions in case a large blue furniture removal lorry is reversing the wrong way up the road.
- D. Rogers,
Hemel Hempstead
General Infirmary
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"At 4:30am with no traffic visible in any direction that's precisely what I do. I proceed with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic."
Yes I agree also - but I ain't gonna do it. Trouble is
a) Common sense isn't going to save you from the long arm of the law (if you are caught)- after all, there are plenty of speed limits which are against "common sense", do you advocate breaking those limits "while proceeding with caution"? Do you advocate going the wrong way down one way streets if "common sense" says there is nothing coming the other way while "keeping speed down"? Do you cross double white lines "while keeping alert to any traffic"? Do you not bother with MOTs because common sense tells you your car is OK? Do you not bother with insurance because you "proceed with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." will mean you are very unlikely to have an accident? Do you drive while using your mobile phone? Why not - especially if you are proceeding "with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." How about drinking and driving - I bet with a bit of common sense and proceeding "with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." You'd be OK wouldn't you?
b) I am likely to meet someone who thinks he has loads of common sense and in fact has no common sense.
Sorry ND, much as I disagree with stupid, needless traffic lights on roundabouts, with sensors set to stop traffic for as long as possible, I can't agree with going across red lights.
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Best make sure that ND and I leave home at different times then. with him jumping the lights one way, and me the other....
But hey its a roundabout, we are both old enough and ugly enough to use them properly.
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"At 4:30am with no traffic visible in any direction that's precisely what I do. I proceed with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." Yes I agree also - but I ain't gonna do it. Trouble is a) Common sense isn't going to save you from the long arm of the law (if you are caught)- after all, there are plenty of speed limits which are against "common sense", do you advocate breaking those limits "while proceeding with caution"?
Yes. Given half a chance and an empty motorway I'll sit there all day long at 90-100mph.
Do you advocate going the wrong way down one way streets if "common sense" says there is nothing coming the other way
No, because there's no common sense that advocates traversing a one-way in the wrong direction.
Do you cross double white lines "while keeping alert to any traffic"?
Again, that has nothing to do with common sense. Traffic lights are there for traffic flow and traffic flow alone. They have sod all to do with safety. White lines are there for the hidden dip, the concealed side road, the blind bend. Traffic lights are to facilitate flow of traffic.
Do you not bother with MOTs because common sense tells you your car is OK? Do you not bother with insurance because you "proceed with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." will mean you are very unlikely to have an accident? Do you drive while using your mobile phone? Why not - especially if you are proceeding "with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." How about drinking and driving - I bet with a bit of common sense and proceeding "with caution, keeping speed down and keeping alert to any traffic." You'd be OK wouldn't you?
Don't be an ass, it's not becoming of you. That is spurious and disingenuous and you know it.
b) I am likely to meet someone who thinks he has loads of common sense and in fact has no common sense.
If the above defines common sense in your book then I'm prepared to be worried.
Why does everyone on this blessed forum have to take a clearly stated set of circumstances and hypothesise and extrapolate until green is purple and gravity lifts you from the ground?
>> Sorry ND, much as I disagree with stupid, needless traffic lightson roundabouts, with sensors set to stop traffic for as long as possible, I can't agree with going across red lights.
Not a problem. Feel free to sit there twiddling your thumbs whilst the lights go through their cycle. Remember I'm talking about a specific set of lights that I traverse hundreds, probably thousands of times every year and am familiar with their lack of off-peak response to traffic levels. Not something I would do in unfamiliar territory.
ND
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No Dosh - I know what you're saying makes sense, but crossing a red light is something that's been ingrained in me as a big no-no.
It's the same when I'm on my [push] bike - a red light means stop, even if it's a pedestrian crossing and I can see that it's clear.
Sidenote - is the post a few lines up the same Chuffer Dandridge who writes in to Terry Wogan?
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Blimey ND, you're in a bad mood. Anyone would think that you had had to spend a week in Telford with a five hour journey home down the motorway.
Point I was trying to make was that you choose to disobey one bit of law because you think it's daft. What is to prevent others who do not have your common sense choosing other bits of law to disobey because they think it is daft.
Since you have been fairly forthright about my questions I will be fairly forthright about your statements.
"empty motorway I'll sit there all day long at 90-100mph"
OK do that. But don't criticise others who do 40 mph on empty 30 mph streets. That's OK is it?
"no common sense that advocates traversing a one-way in the wrong direction"
Why not - if it's empty and you proceed with caution? That cyclist I met the other day on a one way street thought it was common sense.And you miss my point that some motorists might think it's common sense just like you thinking it's common sense to disobey red lights.
"Traffic lights are there for traffic flow and traffic flow alone. They have sod all to do with safety"
Rubbish. I would bet that traffic lights on roundabouts are put there at least partly so that the average driver does not have to make the decision as to when to pull out so that decreases the chances of a poor decision, reducing accidents (especially where drowsy drivers are negotiating them at 4.30 in the morning!).
As for driving when drunk - well I always drive better with a few pints in me, bit of booze makes my reactions quicker (well at least that's what a mate used to tell me), and I feel it is disingenuous of you to suggest that I can't use a phone and drive at the same time.
"White lines are there for the hidden dip, the concealed side road, the blind bend."
Probably, but then I wouldn't want to sit twiddling my thumbs behind a slow driver when, in my opinion, the road is clear enough to overtake would I? Especially on that straight bit with that blooming JCB in front of me
"If the above defines common sense in your book then I'm prepared to be worried."
Be worried then, because there are plenty that do think that the above defines common sense. Not me though. I don't even think running a red light on a roundabout at 4.30 in the morning is common sense.
" clearly stated set of circumstances and hypothesise and extrapolate until green is purple and gravity lifts you from the ground?"
Nope, 'fraid not, just wondered if, since you thought ignoring a red light was OK, it meant that you could ignore various other laws. Polite questions, but answered rather brusquely as if I should know that you were very selective in the laws you disregarded.
"I can't agree with going across red lights.
Not a problem. Feel free to sit there twiddling your thumbs whilst the lights go through their cycle. Remember I'm talking about a specific set of lights that I traverse hundreds, probably thousands of times every year and am familiar with their lack of off-peak response to traffic levels. Not something I would do in unfamiliar territory."
Gee thanks. I will also feel free to sit behind slow drivers with double white lines blocking me, sit around while I sober up, sit by the side of road with engine switched off to make a phone call,etc.
Right, I'm off to the pub now. Been there hundreds of times (may be thousands, but memory is a bit hazy.) Will have about 5 pints, drive back through village at fifty, ring my wife on the way back to tell her I'll be late and if the lights are red I'll ignore them so I'm not too late. And I might even go the wrong way down Warner St- it's quicker and there won't be any traffic about. Wish I'd remembered to renew my insurance - bloomin' expensive though , might not bother. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, not got any road tax either.
Common sense, init mate.
Happy motoring
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When did obeying traffic signals become optional?
I must tell all of my friends and get them to tell all of their friends.
I know, why don't we switch them all off and ave power.
They are there for a reason. Maybe not a good one in your eyes but I hope you don't bump into me when you go through a red light beacuse you won't have a penny left in your bank account.
I'd love to hear your planned defence to PC Plod if you get nicked.
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If I didn't (think I) know you better ND, I might even think you were trolling!
Comparing two separate eyewitness accounts of the same accident it makes you wonder about the accura
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When did obeying traffic signals become optional?
Can we apply the same logic to this forum and obey only the rules we judge to be "common sense", or will ND enforce them all punitively?
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Doc,
You'll be OK if you do it at 4.30am when there are no mods around!!
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>>You'll be OK if you do it at 4.30am when there are no mods around!!
You mean because they're all driving home ignoring traffic lights at that time? Are they all nocturnal? ;)
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Can we apply the same logic to this forum and obey only the rules we judge to be "common sense", or will ND enforce them all punitively?
Aww, c'mon everybody, don't be too hard on the boy.
We really ought to make sure that he's still talking to us when he gets nicked, otherwise we might never hear how the magistrates respond to the "law is an ass" defence :)
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Ah, some life in the forum.
Must do this more often.
Now who was it accused me of trolling? ;o)
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>>Sidenote - is the post a few lines up the same Chuffer Dandridge who writes in to Terry Wogan?
No that's my uncle, Chuffer Dandridge Senior
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Now who was it accused me of trolling? ;o)
I can hear the bench now: "So, you jumped the lights because you were trolling. Last week we learnt what The Beatles are, but what, pay tell us, is trolling?"
;-)
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Could you let us know where this junction is, ND?
We might be passing through at 4.30am one day........
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The only red light I would ever deliberately ignore is at temporary traffic lights when it is obvious that the lights have stopped working. No one sane is going to sit all night at a broken red light waiting for the repair team to arrive next morning.
But at roundabouts or any regular junction I agree with most of the others - if I can break a law because I think it is commonsense, then someone else can break a different law because he thinks that is commonsense too.
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