As a Brit who has had close connections with the 'Land of the Free' for 30+ years I was amongst the many critics of the wallowing barges that epitomised Detroit's finest.
However things have changed!
This is the latest list of cars categorised by TVI(Total Value Index)
2004 TOTAL VALUE INDEX WINNERS BY CATEGORY
Small Car - Hyundai Elantra
Compact Car - Toyota Prius
Mid-Size Car- Hyundai XG 350/Acura TSX
Larger Car - Mercury Marauder
Near-Luxury Car- Mercedes Benz C-Class
Luxury Car - Lexus LS 430
Small Specialty <$25,000 - MINI Cooper
Small Specialty >$25,000 - Mercedes-Benz C-Class Coupe
Mid-Specialty Car - Honda Accord Coupe/Chevrolet Monte Carlo Convertible <$30,000 - Volkswagen New Beetle Convertible
Convertible >$30,000 - Cadillac XLR 784/Lexus SC430
Minivan - Kia Sedona
Small SUV - Hyundai Santa Fe
Medium SUV - Toyota 4Runner
Large SUV - Toyota Sequoia
Near Luxury SUV - Lexus RX 330
Luxury SUV - Lexus GX 470
Compact Pickup - Nissan Frontier
Full-Size Pickup - Ford F-150
Heavy Duty Pickup - Dodge Ram 2500/3500
The tie up between Mercedes and Chrysler has led the way for affordable large cars. The Chrysler 300 is(almost) on a par with the Mercedes E Class and the forthcoming Charger with a 400bhp Hemi as a starter could be seriously interesting.
The downside is the preponderance of 2WD SUVs - many of gargantuan proportions - and lack of interest in diesels(petrol is still about 30p a litre)
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At the USA Today have a story using the same figures on their site with the headline "Buyers rate Hyundai as high-quality", they also give you the winners by brand:
1. Lexus
2. Hyundai
3. Mercedes-Benz
tie Scion
5. Infiniti
6. Acura
tie Cadillac
tie Honda
9. BMW
10. Audi
tie Volvo
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Could those of you in the know inform us of who makes Scion, Infiniti, and Acura?
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Toyota, Nissan and Honda - in that order.
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It's a long time since I have driven in the US; probably about 10 years, but I did, over the previous 15 years, drive about 10,000 whilst on holiday.
We always had US barges, but they were remarkably well suited to their country, with RWD so good turning circles in the cities and lazy engines with cruise control for interstate runs.
The most impressive thing about them was the economy. We were on holiday so took it easy, but used to get 25mpg from 5.2 litre V8s. When petrol was about 30ppg, 25mpg was excellent. I doubt if modern cars could do any better and this was at the beginning of smog control when the power was about 120bhp from a 4litre 6 cyl, when a 2.0litre 4 cyl in Europe produced about 90 or 100 bhp.
The only problems we had we in the Rockies, when due to the altitude, the power dropped significantly and the economy fell as well. We were drving at something like 12,000ft. Is there a mountain in Europe that high? What is the highest road in Europe - in the UK it can't be much more than 2,000ft?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Highest mountain western Europe - Mont Blanc 4807m / 15771 ft
Highest moutain Europe - Mount Elbrus 5642m / 18511 ft (you probably wouldn't want to go there as it's in Georgia I think...)
Highest road in Europe - there appears to be one in Southern Spain that gets up to around 3,300m (10825 ft).
Highest road in UK is possibly the A93 where it passes the ski centre south of Bremar - at a mere 665m 2180ft!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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>> Highest road in Europe - there appears to be one in Southern Spain that gets up to around 3,300m (10825 ft).
Near Granada in the Sierra Nevada IIRC. Long stretch of the French A75 south of Clermont Ferrand at well over 3000 feet.
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Bromptonaut,
one in >> Southern Spain that gets up to around 3,300m (10825 ft). Near Granada in the Sierra Nevada IIRC. Long stretch of the French A75 south of Clermont Ferrand at well over 3000 feet.
3000m not 3000 feet
I frequently drive to various mountain tops, 13500 feet in Hawaii, 7500 feet and approx 10000 ft in the Canary islands. No problem with the cars, I assume the ECU notes the decreased air density
and sorts out the fuelling. Older cars left at the summit used to be tweaked to run properly but the new cars run OK at the summit or at sea level.
StarGazer
StarGazer
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>>>> StarGazer
>>Long stretch of the French A75 south of Clermont Ferrand at >> >> well over 3000 feet.
3000m not 3000 feet
Road in Southern Spain is 3000 meters, the A75 is around 900 which I converted as 3000 feet, altitude on the kilometre posts. Europe has little in the way of real high altitude habitation. La Paz, Bolivia, has the worlds highest airport at over 14000 feet.
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OK, misunderstood your original post, two separate roads and two different heights.
StarGazer
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I've driven on that road in the Sierra Nevada and have a photograph somewhere at a height marker but cannot remember whether it was 3000m or 2000m - certainly a spectacular drive and there was plenty of snow at the top, unexpected in Southern Spain in May not 50 miles from the coast.
When I saw the cycles on the Tour of Spain recently on TV in Seville on holiday they were climbing up to that height and coming down the mountain at one hell of a speed - They must be mad . It was frightening us enough in a car never mind on two wheels.
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Sorry Cardew, for diverting this thread away from what you intended!
e :-)
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Sorry Cardew, for diverting this thread away from what you intended! e :-)
No problem! Why should this thread be any different :-)
C
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Have to disagree with some of the comments made about the illusion of well sorted American cars. Americans seem to have a delusion of the superiority of it's products being the only thing that keeps the American car industry going.
This can easily be proved untrue by looking at Ford/GM/Chryslers declining market share and there heavy reliance on fleet sales to large companies particulaly Ford with the Crown Victoria to the Police and taxi operators.
You need to remove these 'artifical' sales from the picture to realise that the big three's market share is even smaller.
The more clued up American motorist who tend to live on the East or West coasts tend to buy either European or Japanese cars whereas middle America buy the big three's because they don't know any better, and it's this market who also have poor expectations of quality too.
Tey expect the car to go wrong, That's why extended Warranties are hugely popular in the U.S. Most of middle America buys the big three's cars because there dads did too. The big three's reliance on this share of the market is increasingly becoming a huge mistake. Sales will gradually decline until the big three will go out of business. The Europeans and the far east will sooner or later take over the market.
Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler et al have for too long made low grade cars to the increaslingly smaller uneducated car buyer and this will be there undoing.
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Imagos,
I am not sure who you are disagreeing with - in this thread anyway; as it was illustrating the strong influence of foreign cars. I would totally agree with the rest of your post.
The only US car praised was the Chrysler 300 which has a strong Mercedes influence. There is a realisation in the US motor industry that they need to compete with the Far East products in terms of price and reliability, as brand loyalty for their products is dwindling. It is quite marked how many 'Seniors' - who one would expect to be traditional in their tastes - are driving Korean/Japanese cars.
C
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The more clued up American motorist who tend to live on the East or West coasts
I'm sure there are many that would strongly disagree with that statement.
Sales will gradually decline until the big three will go out of business. The Europeans and the far east will sooner or later take over the market.
US makers market share will decline over time, its 1% this year but the same is true of European car manufacturers in Europe. Don't expect European cars to expand much in the US, their sales are in decline (by 6%), the expansion will come from Japan and S.Korea(up 5% this year).
In fact Europe manufacture decline is just as great as the US, the Asia's are taking market share off everyone. In Europe foreign manufactures increased sales by 6.2%, Europeans dropped by 0.7%
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