No traffic lights at the Aldwych today, so 3 'community support' bods attempting to direct the traffic. They were actually making quite a good job of it. But they were fairly invisible. Though wearing fluorescent yellow jackets, these stop above their cuffs. When the French traffic police do this, they wear their white gloves, so the instructions are much clearer to the motorist/pedestrian.
Brave chaps, though, standing in the middle of those roads - not my idea of fun.
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with the lights out, motorists should be looking for people controlling the junction. I'm not sure white gloves would help.
It is quite an easy job to direct the traffic. You need nice big clear hand and arm signals.I point and make eye contact the the person I want to stop and make sure they have come to a complete stop until moving on the next lane of traffic.
It just makes life difficult when some motorists appear not to realise that they must obey the command of an officer directing them.
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>>You need nice big clear hand
"Clear" as in, for example, wearing bright white gloves ?
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you could always use those very big foam gloves that the kids wear at gladiators or robot wars :-)
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You need nice big clear hand
If it were clear, people would see right through it. Spooky.
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>>they must obey the command of an officer directing them.>>
I'm wasn't convinced that use of such community officers to direct traffic is strictly legal - you are supposed to obey the command, for whatever reasons, of a police officer or special constable.
So a browse revealed details of community officers here:
www.essex.police.uk/pages/about/a_joincs.htm
and one of the paragraphs states:
"They are a unique role designed purely to tackle local anti-social behaviour and issues affecting the quality of life."
I don't think the occasional traffic lights breakdown affects our quality of life too much, however inconvenient it may prove.
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Stuartli wrote:www.essex.police.uk/pages/about/a_joincs.htm and one of the paragraphs states: "They are a unique role designed purely to tackle local anti-social behaviour and issues affecting the quality of life." I don't think the occasional traffic lights breakdown affects our quality of life too much, however inconvenient it may prove.
I thought that was the original justification, though the Met seem to use them quite extensively on "traffic". They do a very good job deterring box junction blockers at the Euston Rd/Eversholt St junction. I assume they can only deliver advice as penalties for this offence now rest with the LA/TFL.
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>>as penalties for this offence now rest with the LA/TFL.>>
Never was there a more ill conceived idea....:-((
Jobsworths countrywide rub hands in glee 24 hours a day along with their masters....
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I don't think the occasional traffic lights breakdown affects our quality of life too much, however inconvenient it may prove.
Surely a decent definition of quality of life is 'lack of inconvenience'?
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>>Surely a decent definition of quality of life is 'lack of inconvenience'?>>
Depends on the level of inconvenience.
Better to be held up for a short time at broken down traffic lights than, for example, having your car off the road for several days for repairs and having to use public transport.
The world is not perfect - we normally strive to keep inconvenience to a minimum in whichever way we come across it.
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So then, by reducing this particular inconvenience, the men in question were improving the quality of life of all the people who would otherwise have been in a traffic jam.
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A fair point.
But what happens if a motorist ignores their traffic control and an accident results?
What would be the legal or insurance consequences as they do not have the same powers as police officers or special constables?
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A few years ago I witnessed an injury RTA. Not having any medical skills, I took it upon myself to direct the traffic through the one remaining carriageway.
I must have made a good job of it because the OB left me to it when they turned up and I was stuck there for about half an hour (they did say thanks).
Wonder what the insurance situation would have been there?
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I've got involved in that sort of thing a couple of times (and for much longer than half an hour).
Most drivers are reassonable, but on the last occasion the odd one insisted he wants to take the first right road (which was carrying the traffic coming the other way and is only one vehicle wide) rather than the second right which is a hundred yards further but kept the traffic moving.
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What would be the legal or insurance consequences as they do not have the same powers as police officers or special constables?
That's a good point, I can quite imagine someone trying to sue the director (or should that be directer following the mod thread?) after having a crash having ignored their directions.
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>>Better to be held up for a short time at broken down traffic lights than, for example, having your car off the road for several days for repairs and having to use public transport.
So Stualtli, you think that these Community Support Officers would be best employed repairing your car............???
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It's probably what they did before opting for traffic control duty - you don't get your hands dirty and might get to wear white gloves...:-)
Doesn't bother me - three VWs over the past 12 years have proved 99.9 per cent reliable.
That will upset some forum members' preconceived views on VAG models...:-))
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Ah -- the white baton and whistle are what's needed.
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Where I live we have "Traffic Enforcers". These may or may not be on duty at any one time at a road junction and certainly not during lunch break 1200-1300. Absolutely never when it's raining. In the upscale CBD of Makati they wear smart blue or yellow uniforms, carry handcuffs (although strangely they have no powers of arrest) and a fat book of TVR's (violation tickets). These are seldom used because nobody wants the hassle of having his/her licence confiscated so it is normal to, shall we say "negotiate a solution" These chaps and chapesses wear big orange gloves, and are thus known as "Mickey Mouses" . Yes, I know, after reading the thread about moderators the term should be "Mickey Mice", but let common usage prevail over pedantry.
At one time some 15 years ago when road systems were even worse than they are now and you could be stuck at a junction for 15 or 20 minutes, the President's office issued an ordnance that enforcers had to perform dance routines to keep the motorists entertained and their tempers from getting out of control. I think this idea may have been copied from Bangkok, where traffic was similarly dreadful.
The results were hilarious, with everything from massively overweight cops giving their interpretation of the Lambada, to trim more fleet-footed ones trying to emulate Michael Jackson. Needless to say this programme had a very short shelf life after the Mouses complained they were laughed, yelled and jeered at.
Quite why the Palace failed to foresee such an obvious outcome is unclear, but then this was the era when President Cory Aquino was ridiculed for hiding under her bed during one of the numerous attempted coups d'êtat of the era.
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...I had an afterthought. The relatively small numbers of TVR's issued vs. "Negotiated solutions" thus enable the Metro Manila Development Authority to quote statistics claiming they are improving traffic discipline. Hah!
Tone, that's one for your merry band of spinmeisters to look at....you could also use it to claim the payroll cost of policing hasn't increased under your watch while recruitment has risen!
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Think some of you might be getting a bit confused here...
Community Wardens: Employed by the council to work within neighbourhoods, attempt to bring down antisocial behaviour simply by being visible.
Police Community Support Officers: Employed by the police authority (sometimes in conjunction with the council). Have numerous powers (but not of arrest) and also take on the duties of traffic wardens in some areas, i.e. they are "allowed" to direct traffic.
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>>Police Community Support Officers>>
May I respectfully suggest that you read the link I provided earlier in the thread regarding their duties?
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>>Police Community Support Officers>>May I respectfully suggest that you read the link I provided earlier in the thread regarding their duties?
I think PG was exapnding on that and pointing out that the use and powers of Police Community Support Officers varies between police areas. I have discovered today that in London whole teams are designated as Traffic Police Community Support Officers. Some of the funding comes from Transport for London and their duties overlap those of the Transport Police on the tube and Traffic Wardens, whose powers they take in directing traffic. See www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl/metro/articles/metro...l
Contrary to my earlier post they probably can issue Penalty Charge or Fixed Penalty Notices for moving traffic offences. They will certainly be able to issue PCN's when "Red Route" enforcement moves over to TfL later in ther year.
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