I am thinking of buying a second hand scooter with a reasonably big engine (250cc or even 500cc). I have seen some in pristine condition which have been garaged from new.
Is it risky buying a very low mileage i.e. 600 mile scooter as above, or is it better buying new. The depreciation is quite high for these vehicles and I can easily save £1500 on new with a low mileage one.
Also, what should I be looking for. I know that scooters are not as strong as cars and any abuse or lack of maintainance can kill one very quickly.
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Oh, and which scooters are better. Kymco or Yamaha; Both seem to be top sellers in Taiwan and both seem very reliable.
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The only thing I know about scooters is they tend to miss their first service (at least!), so make sure the book is stamped up, or get one that's not needed it yet.
Talk to a few local dealers to find out more, they were very helpful when I was looking at 125 bikes / scooters.
Gareth
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Greg,
You do not explain why you should want one of these things. They have a low centre of gravity and small wheels and so are less stable than a 'real' bike.
Anyway, if buying go for a Honda. Absolutely superb build quality.
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Oh, and which scooters are better. Kymco or Yamaha; Both seem to be top sellers in Taiwan and both seem very reliable.
I'd recommend a Kymco any time. I have an '00/X Cobra Racer 50 - very nice little machine and a lot more stable than the Yamaha CW-RS50 that I had beforehand. My dealer, who has been selling scooters since, um, there were scooters to sell, tells me that the mechanical bits are Honda-derived. Build quality is a near match for Honda, IMO, and they are very good value - mine cost £1,600 new, to be compared at the time with around £2k for an equivalent Peugeot.
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Paulb: Which area do you live in?
I have heard a lot about Kymco motorcycles, and found that they are more reliable than piagio's and even yamaha's. Since they are honda clones (and quality ones at that) they are probably the best bikes for the price in the UK.
I want a scooter as oppose to motorcycle because you have a chain to muck about with, they have no underseat storage (although you can add a top box) and you get dirtier than on a scooter since it is a lot more external.
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Greg,
I had a Yamaha Majesty 250cc scooter and when I think how much it cost me in repairs and depreciation over three years I still shudder. It was OK up to 12,000 miles then the bills came in, they don't seem to be built for serious use .Because these scooters are so rare breakers yards can't help. If you must get one get one with very low mileage and get a Honda , at least the dealers will be interested in any problems you have.
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Paulb: Which area do you live in?
Sussex coast - dealer I got it from is Gerry Ingram Motorcycles in Hollingdean Road, Brighton. Gerry is very well regarded locally and I have heard it said more than once that if he is selling them, they must be good. I still go there for servicing, even though it's a near-40 mile round trip for me now.
My Dad is now on his second Kymco 125 (can't remember model) and is even more pleased with it than he was with the first one.
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Paul: That is where I go as well. I only live a mile from him, but you must really find him very good to travel 40 miles. In fact, when I ventured out to find a reputable mechanic, I visited every garage in Brighton, Hove, Worthing, Eastbourne and found that none, even the ones in London matched his service.
The only problem with Gery is that whenever I visit him, he is always very busy. But despite this he can usually fit me in for a service within two days. No other garage would meet this kind of service, even if they were trying.
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Don't take this the wrong way, but mate get on yer bike.
Suzuki Bandit, Fazer, something like that. Trust me. Thommo will have more ideas as well.
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Ultimate docile commuter is the Honda CB 500.
Can be fitted with screen if necessary.
Fit a scotoiler and likely the chain will be little problem.
If you want a scooter by all means have one but one warning, the muppets who hang around town centres have taken to cutting holes in scooter seats to see whats stored inside.
There are many other storage solutions these days, my favourite are panniers that clip on to a harness fitted over the rear seat. When you stop you unclip it and walk away with it as a briefcase.
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The problem with a motorcycle is the fact that your legs are really exposed and probably get dirty from road dirt.
Also, the crouch position is very uncomfortable on most bikes. Only a tourer type motorbike would do.
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The problem with a motorcycle is the fact that your legs are really exposed and probably get dirty from road dirt.
Which is not a problem if you are wearing appropriate clothing, something I recommend whether you are on a C50, a Fireblade or a Husqvarna Trail bike.
Also, the crouch position is very uncomfortable on most bikes. Only a tourer type motorbike would do.
The CB500 mentioned above isn\'t a tourer, but it certainly isn\'t a sports bike. Very much designed with the commuter in mind, as are the Suzuki GS500, the Kawasaki ER-5 and numerous others. All have relatively upright seating.
My personal recommendation (and one I keep threatening to go ahead with myself) would be something a little more upright still. One of the hybrid trail bikes, such as the Yamaha TDM850, the new Suzuki 650 V-Strom (not a spelling error) or similar all offer big-wheel safety, good visibility and comfort. You are also much more visible on this sort of bike due to the extra height.
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....all offer big-wheel safety...
Please explain - I know that trail bikes usually have larger wheels but how does that provide greater safety?
You've probably guessed by now that I'm not a rider :-)
Chad.
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As No Dosh stated, not all bikes are the "crouch riding position"! Basically there are 5 types:
1. Trail bikes - upright seating, from little scramblers to huge continent crossers
2. Sports bikes - hunched over the handlebars, at slow speeds you might find there's too much weight on your wrists but good at sustained high speed
3. Tourer - upright riding position, typically with luggage racks as standard, tall screen to keep the wind off, big fairing.
4. Cruiser - Harleys and their wannabes
5. Naked - sometimes called retro style, looks like motorbikes did in the late 70s before everyone wanted a race replica.
All of these are available from 50cc to 1000cc+, so try sitting on a few and see what you prefer. For commuting I've got a retro style bike (a Honda Hornet 600) which has plenty of power, an upright riding position which is good for seeing over the tops of cars and no fairing so if I drop it the bills shouldn't be huge. Downside is that cruising at over 100mph for any length of time gives you neck muscles like Arnie.
Big wheels like bikes are generally better than small wheeled scooters because if you hit a bump or pothole (what, on British roads??) the bike stays more stable. Cornering is also better at high speeds. Scooters are great around town, but a bike is more flexible.
Gareth
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The CB500 mentioned above isn't a tourer, but it certainly isn't a sports bike. Very much designed with the commuter in mind, as are the Suzuki GS500, the Kawasaki ER-5 and numerous others. All have relatively upright seating.
I have an ER-5. It's my first bike and I bought it for commuting on, and also for having a bit of fun at the weekends. It's ideal for commuting - fast enough to beat any car away from the lights and nimble enough to make filtering a doddle. Come spring I may be in the market for something with a leetle more kick, but it probably won't be as good a commuter as my ER-5.
And you have to admit, it looks the part a little more than a scooter does.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/angryjonny/er5.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/angryjonny/scootay...g
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"it looks the part a little more than a scooter does"
I agree entirely, but having witnessed a rally here in the summer, there still seem to be people who think a 60's Vespa with 8 lights and 14 wing mirrors is the zenith of good taste!
I can see the appeal of something with leg shields, built-in storage and 'twist and go' gears, especially for commuting, but the dynamics of a 'proper' bike are more enjoyable, IMHO.
I'm old enought to remember the Mods and Rockers clashes, and it was clear then that there is more than one school of thought...
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I have only bought one two-wheeler new (a Honda Bali 100) scooter.
Most of my motorcycles/scooters have been bought with around 8,000 miles on the clock and I have run the last couple to at least 80,000.
My last purchase had 33,000 when I bought it.
If you get it checked when you buy it and maintain it properly (I use a professional garage) a bike/scooter should last you for years.
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Hi Brian. I find being able to do 80,000 miles from a scooter unbelievable. Would it start to cost a lot to maintain at these higher mileages. My last scooter ran to 25000 miles, and the engine blew. My current scooter has 18100 miles, and seems perfect. Serviced a lot by myself, and dreading the valve clearances that are soon due!
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>>Oh, and which scooters are better. Kymco or Yamaha>>
Yamaha are an internationally renown Japanese company who make the finest musical instruments, leading edge electronics, the best outboard motors bar none and have been at the top of the motorcycle game for 50 years.
Kymco are Taiwanese, they have only recently made bikes/scooters that might be considered competitive, they basically make cheap copies of Japanese bikes, they do have a good reputation for reliability if not dynamics.
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A Yamaha XT660 big single is fun, reliable and economical available as trail orientated and road orientated (super moto) versions, the Honda CB500F twin is fine as is the CB600F four which is effectively a detuned Hornet mentioned above, less fun though more flexible. You cant go wrong with a Honda or Yamaha though Suzukis are not so well finished IMO. Also a Kawasaki KLE500 is a upright psuedo trail bike, not very fast though a great commuter, the 650 twin ER6n is funky and good to ride, the ER6f similar though has a fairing.
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"they basically make cheap copies of Japanese bikes, they do have a good reputation for reliability if not dynamics."
Kymco's aren't actually that much cheaper than mainstream brands. An equivilent yamaha might cost £2700, whilst a kymco costs £2500, a saving of £200. To be fair this is not a huge amount.
Resale value on a kymco is less as well.
However, after owning two Kymcos and one Yamaha, I can say the quality of the kymco is better than Yamaha scooters, but about the same as Honda. Longetivity, I think the same really.
Parts prices on Kymco are less. But they are not available so much really.
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However, after owning two Kymcos and one Yamaha, I can say the quality of the kymco is better than Yamaha scooters, >>
That may be your experience based on one Yamaha however typically Yamaha are right up there with Honda in the quality and reliability stakes.
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