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The Tax Disc (VED) thread vol 1 - No Do$h
Following a sterling suggestion from DVD, this thread is for the discussion of all things pertaining to Vehicle Excise Duty.

Once it gets full I shall open Vol 2. Following the Dynamic Mr Dave\'s sterling work yesterday in gathering all the various multi-volume threads together I shall see if I can maintain some semblance of order on this one.

[Clutches head in hands and reaches for the Rioja]

No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
Just a reminder to watch the renewal of your Excise Licence otherwise you may get well and truly stung.

New piece of legislation coming into force on 30.11.03


Amendment of the principal Regulations

2. In the principal Regulations (Road Vehs (Reg and Licensing) Regs 2002) after regulation 9 within Part II there shall be inserted -


" Supplement payable on late renewal of vehicle licence

9A. - (1) Where paragraph (2) applies a supplement of the amount prescribed in paragraph (3) shall be payable.

(2) This paragraph applies where -


(a) a vehicle licence taken out for a vehicle expires,

(b) no vehicle licence was issued for the vehicle before the end of a period of one month beginning with the date of that expiry, and

(c) the registered keeper has failed to comply with requirements contained in Schedule 4.


(3) The supplement shall be £80, except when it is paid to the Secretary of State before the expiry of 28 days beginning with the date on which the registered keeper is notified that a supplement may or has become payable, when it shall be £40.

(4) The supplement shall be payable by the person in whose name the vehicle is registered under the 1994 Act at the date of the expiry of the licence by reason of whose late renewal the supplement becomes payable.".

DVD
Reminder re your Excise Licence - L'escargot
Seems fair to me. Late payment is late payment, and it costs the DLVC money in lost interest just like it would any other business. Everybody knows how long you\'ve got to pay. Don\'t see why I should subsidise the late payers.
--
L\'escargot by name, but not by nature.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Flat in Fifth
Glad we've now got that one clear then DVD ;-)

So in a nutshell it's now even more vital you renew on time or SORN, and if you sell or scrap the vehicle tell the DVLA or else.....

Nice to see our legislators can still write legalese to keep PU and pals gainfully employed..
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Mark (RLBS)
So, if the licence expires 30/9 and I sell it on 1/10 with no tax. I'm going to be liable for the fine if the new owner doesn't sort it out, irrespective as to whether or not he has registered it in his name on the 02/10, since I would have owned it at expiry.

Have I understood correctly ?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - martint123
At a guess, yes, you should have declared SORN for the 1/10 as you owned it on that day.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Pugugly {P}
Mark,
Yes that's how I read it as well. Seems to me that the minority who have abused the loopholes in the past are now making the majority (who haven't) pay. This will affect me as the fleet we maintain here at home will have be taxed by the book or SORNED when the 1st falls on a weekday, whereas in the past I have waited until the Saturday morning to tax the odd bit of ironmongery that probably not venture out onto the public roads for weeks....typical. (Tractor, trail bike, quad thing...)
Reminder re your Excise Licence - volvoman
".... that the minority who have abused the loopholes in the past are now making the majority (who have) pay."

And just when hasn't that been the case ?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - cockle {P}
Just a reminder to watch the renewal of your Excise Licence
otherwise you may get well and truly stung.
New piece of legislation coming into force on 30.11.03
" Supplement payable on late renewal of vehicle licence
9A. - (1) Where paragraph
(2) applies a supplement of the amount prescribed in paragraph (3)
shall be payable.
(2) This paragraph applies where -
(a) a vehicle licence taken out for a vehicle expires,


In the best spirit of legalese.
The way I read that is that a vehicle must always have a current licence or SORN, therefore deadline for taxing is midnight on last day of the month for which the current licence is valid. Thus if I wander into my local post Office at 09:00 on the 1st of the month I am guilty and can expect a fine in the post. Better make sure we no longer forget when the 30th/31st is a Sunday....

Cockle
Reminder re your Excise Licence - cockle {P}
Just a reminder to watch the renewal of your Excise Licence
otherwise you may get well and truly stung.
New piece of legislation coming into force on 30.11.03



Hmmm.

Missed that first time round, nothing underhand about the fact that it comes into effect when the end of the month falls on a Sunday?
I wonder how many people will get a bill for £40 just before Xmas???

I think I know where you're going to be on Saturday morning, PU!

Cockle
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Bromptonaut
On my reading Mark may will be caught, unless there is some saving somewhere, but the Saturday taxers are OK as the combined effect of (a) and (b) is to create a month's grace.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Pugugly {P}
Funny you should say that cockle...the tax on the bike runs out 31.12. which means I'll have to tax it on 29 or 30th or on the preceeding Wednesday 24.12. - busy time of year for briefs (of the legal variety).
Reminder re your Excise Licence - No Do$h
Surely
(b) no vehicle licence was issued for the vehicle before the
end of a period of one month beginning with the date
of that expiry, and
(c) the registered keeper has failed to comply with requirements contained
in Schedule 4.


Means that you have a month's grace? Perhaps I'm being a bit "No Brains" rather than No Dosh?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - AdrianM
Agree. You have one months grace to renew your tax or be subject to £80 fine reduced to £40 if paid within 28 days of notice. This is to stop all those who 'forget' to renew and so save themselves a month or two tax.

Adrian
Reminder re your Excise Licence - pmh
Can you apply for SORN ahead of time? Necessary if you take an extended holiday abroad (or alt are delayed returning by illness or similar) the tax expires, nobody else can declare and sign SORN on your behalf (can they?), so what way out is there?


.


pmh (was peter)
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Aprilia
Givent that I occasionally go abroad for a month or more at a time this could be a right pain! Its the kind of thing I'm almost bound to forget.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
Correct me if I am wrong but I read it like this:

DVLA send a renewal form 14 days or so before Licence due.

Are you going to use it after Licence expires ( or flog it on without a Licence).

No = then SORN.

Yes = Then renew. You have 14 days to do so before Licence expires (6 weeks if you will be
abroad when the old one expires).

Or in the days after expiry trot along to PO or LVLO and renew. You do of course run the risk
of being reported for using the vehicle without a Licence as by Law there are no days of grace.
DVLA have shown in the past some lattitude by allowing 14 days before prosecuting but this
is not set in concrete.

Now the Bar Coding on the new Licences. In the old days PO used to record the issue and details of your Licence on a special Form which was sent to DVLA so that they could check that a Licence had been issued. (Used to get copies of this for false declaration cases to prove Licence taken out after stop and illegal use not declared). Hence DVLA found it prudent to allow 14 days.

Your new Licence has the bar code that PO scan before they hand over. Thanks to modern electronics the issue of the Licence can immediately in milllisecond be zapped to DVLA so their records are up to date before the Licence is handed over to you. Wow.

I also read it there is a months admin break in which time (and as yet they haven't put anything on their site about the new law) they will do a cull and those who have not declared SORN or a Licence taken out then a little brown envelope will drop on the doorstep of whoever DVLA have recorded as the Keeper on the day the Licence expired and who will be liable, demanding eighty notes but if you are good and comply forthwith, to you Sir 40 notes. Plus of course the Duty not paid. Plus of course any fine for being caught without a licence in between time.

Purely my interpretation.

Over to you Pdc :/

DVD
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Pugugly {P}
Agree with DVD. Tax it SORN it before the old one expires. And don't use it if is SORNd. Ask poor old Moonshine if you don't believe it.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Clanger
Time for the DVLA to accept standing orders or direct debits, or is that just too simple?


Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
Reminder re your Excise Licence - martint123
Time for the DVLA to accept standing orders or direct debits, or is that just too simple?

At the moment yes, but once the insurance and MOT databases get fully working there will be no need to provide evidence of them when applying for VED

Reminder re your Excise Licence - Cliff Pope
Can you apply for SORN ahead of time? Necessary
if you take an extended holiday abroad (or alt are
delayed returning by illness or similar) the tax expires, nobody
else can declare and sign SORN on your behalf (can they?),
so what way out is there?



What happens if you simply fill in a SORN declaration, date it 2 months in advance or whatever, and post it off to the NKVD at Swansea?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
Cliff

Cannot see why this should not be allowed.

In your case SORN would have to be declared on Form V890 (download from DVLA site). It actually asks for the date of commencement of SORN.

Whilst the form can be signed by partnership, limited company or other legal entity and position declared it does state that it should be completed by the registered keeper. However I do not think that DVLA is such a heartless beast (except when dealing with Moonshine)that a note accompanying the form from someone else on behalf of the Keeper with an explanation would not be acceptable. Providing it is abundantly clear there is no intent to miss out on paying duty which is really all they are interested in.

If they put the Duty on fuel no one would escape and all this paperwork unnecessary.

DVD
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Flat in Fifth
[devils advocate mode = on]

Lets take DVD's example of the data being zapped in a millisecond from post office to DVLA.

First day of the month the database of renewed tax/SORN is compared with database of vehicles which should have been taxed or SORN'd.

Large list produced where no tax/SORN. Then this data is output into a mail merge giving notice that a £40 penalty is now due.

Month's grace now ticking before this £40 is now £80.

It all depends upon the detail and time allowed for SORN to be declared and reach DVLA. Not had time to check the detail on that.

[devil's advocate mode = off]

Surely I've got the wrong end of the stick but could this be a possible scenario.

Comments?

Reminder re your Excise Licence - moonshine
The tax on the Audi runs out this month so in my lunch hour I went to the post office with my docs and a nice cheque for £165. Queued for what always seems like hours at the PO, get to the front and hand my docs and cheque over hoping to get a nice new tax disk in return.

Doh!!! - I'd picked up my insurance schedule rather than the cert (elephant.co.uk docs all look the same) - Sorry sir, no tax for you today.

I'll have to try again tomorrow, Saturday mornings are not nice at my local PO. Maybe I should declare a SORN just in case....
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
No FiF, from my bed in the asylum I read as follows.

There is a month from expiry of the licence before they send out the Supplement demand of 80notes but to ensure that you pay they reduce it to 40 if you pay in the time allowed.

Could be the plug for the 13 month use. Leave without tax for a month or more then pay duty. SORN and this latest gem should prevent it?

Got to go Nurse with a b***** great needle approaching.

DVD
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Flat in Fifth
DVD, I do hope the needle wasn't a blunt one!

I do agree it does read like that, they definitely imply that the notices would not be sent out before the month grace is up. I use the word imply quite deliberately, ie they don't actually say that.

I can't believe they would be so cynical, money grabbing or wasteful of public funds to send out the notices earlier, but these days I'd believe anything of this lot.

Nevertheless if you need to declare SORN on V890 then that has to be posted to Swansea and not declared at the post office, at least as I read things in this particular branch of bedlem.

Therefore, seeing as so much mail is lost every day, this begs the question whether any postal communication with DVLA, e.g. posted SORN / change of keeper, would be best sent by special delivery, ie tracked all the way. Recorded delivery being a waste of money in my experience.

FiF

PS having just made an adverse comment re GPO, can confirm delivery rec'd AOK @ Villa FiF this morning. Ta!
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Pugugly {P}
Is there a facility for reporting SORN online ? If not there should be.

Snail Mail - not so slow. I posted a letter at midnight on Thursday in the local sorting Office. It arrived (30 miles distant) first post the next morning. Now that is a service.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - frostbite
By my calculation (30mpg @ 12k miles) if the road tax were to be transferred to petrol price, it would add around 12p to the price of a litre.

A sensible idea so most unlikely to be adopted by HMG, and would also make SORN redundant.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - moonshine
I'm sure the scrap road tax/ add to fuel discussion has already been done to death.

But, I agree that the road tax should be scrapped and added to fuel. It MUST be a more efficient method of collecting the money, fairer and saves costs of enforcing. Of course I also believe that a insurance and mot disk should be displayed in the windscreen.

Reminder re your Excise Licence - NowWheels
By my calculation (30mpg @ 12k miles) if the road tax
were to be transferred to petrol price, it would add around
12p to the price of a litre.
A sensible idea so most unlikely to be adopted by HMG,
and would also make SORN redundant.


Transferring road tax to a fuel levy might make sense if the only object of road tax were to raise revenue, but I had always assumed that the function of the road tax was as also to maintain a record a vehicles' owner/keeper.

I doubt that HMG would want to abandon any attempt to maintain a record of a car's keeper -- it would make it harder to trace the ownership in the event of an offence. That applies not just to motoring offences, but to the use of vehicles in other sorts of crime.

I suppose that could still be achieved by reducing the road tax to a cost-recovery fee for registration, but even so it would leave about 10p/litre to be raised from the taxes on fuel. I can't see any government of any hue wanting to take the political risk of trying that -- there would be huge protests, especially from the vocal high-mileage users.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dalglish
i am no good at lawyer language.

does this mean you have 28 days grace after expiry of ved disc before you risk automatic fine?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
Seems DVLA will do a cull at the end of a month and run a programme through their computor which will give a list of those vehicles that are on file untaxed/unsorned. Fine will go out to those on the list.

Get out of this belief "days of grace" there is none and never has been.

DVD
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Vin {P}
"Get out of this belief "days of grace" there is none and never has been."

What does the following mean, apart from one month of grace? (cut from legalese at start of thread).

(b) no vehicle licence was issued for the vehicle before the end of a period of one month beginning with the date of that expiry, and

V
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Vin {P}
Sorry, just reread that and it seems a bit abrupt.

I read the above wording as a "supplement" becoming payable if:

a. a vehicle licence taken out for a vehicle expires, [AND - implied by the "and" at end of (b)]

b. no vehicle licence was issued for the vehicle before the end of a period of one month beginning with the date of that expiry, and

c. the registered keeper has failed to comply with requirements contained in Schedule 4.

So, in my case, car tax ran out 31st December. I renewed on 2nd Jan. I fall foul of (a) but am saved by (b) as a licence has been issued for the vehicle before 31st January. Can't this be described as a period of grace?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
Vin

Just to re-iterate sorry if it reads pedantic

S.29 Vehicle Excise & Registration Act 1994 creates the offence of using a vehicle on a road without an Excise Licence. There is no "but OK if one taken out in 14 days after expiry" i.e. commonly called days of grace. So in your case if RFL expires 31.12.03 and you re-Lic 2.1.04 but used the vehicle on 1.1.04 then at Law you have committed the offence of using on 1.1.04.

What you mention is housekeeping by DVLA so that in the month following the expiry of your Licence, no SORN has been declared and no Licence re-newed then they will draft you an 80 note fine.
If either one of these has been actioned then your OK. The 80 notes is in addition to any offences of using within that time you may have committed.

Going back to the first Para there is a sort of Gentlemans' agreement that DVLA will not prosecute if a new Licence is taken out within 14 days from expiry but nothing under the law that says they have to do so.

Finally this is not a criminal offence merely Revenue like Income Tax.

DVD

Reminder re your Excise Licence - No Do$h
In other words DVLA won't kick off at you for 28 days, but the local constabulary or traffic warden can still issue you with a ticket during that time.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - frostbite
And wouldn't it be nice if we could pay for our VEL by credit card!

Even the creaky old TV Tax sorry, licence, can be paid this way.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dalglish
i am confused.

if you keep car in private drive and or garage and not on public highway and no official or neighbour complains then you have 28 days grace.

my simple mind says:
ved expiry 31 december 2003.
put car in garage or private drive and go on holiday on 12 december 2003 to australia.
come back on 18 january 2004.
find ved reminder in post.
take it to post office on 19 january 2004 for new tax disc.
use car on road again after display new disc.
no need for sorn. no £80 or no £40 fine.
everybody happy.

so what is the problem?
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Pugugly {P}
Is there a problem with a lack of plain English here ?

DVLA say they will scan their records the month following the expiry of the tax disc. So lets say the tax finishes on 30.6.04, Doesn't this mean they then run their checks in July ?

To be really pendantic DVD isn't the offence one of "keeping" a vehicle on a road untaxed as well as "using" ?

BTW saw the DVLA public info film today. It showed a blue Beford Rascal van....aready featured in this site IIRC. Cue Twilight Zone music.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dwight Van Driver
Deuce PU

Says Using (first) or keeping.....

DVD
new tax disc laws - Imagos
As per usual a new tax disc law has been introduced on the quiet, the 80 quid fine for not having a valid disc. Surely this is a long overdue law or am i missing something?The AA dont seem to impressed.I think its a fair cop no disc no excuses! after all you have a 2 week reminder, or am i being too harsh?

or are we being penalised for being just forgetfull.... or lazy.
new tax disc laws - Ivor E Tower
The fine is excessive IMHO if you have bought the disc but forgotten to display it. What concerns me is the proposed automatic fine for not immediately renewing and displaying the disc. My wife's car has a disc that expires at the end of August. The past 3 years we have been out of the country on that date, having left prior to the renewal letter arriving by post. The car has remained locked in our garage whilst we have been away, and I have on return from the holidays walked to the Post Office to re-tax it on, typically Sept 3rd. No great problem at present, but under the proposed new legislation it appears that I may have to write to DVLA to declare impending SORN before going on holiday, then re-tax on return. I could tax for 6 months to alter the renewal date, but then I incur the extortinate interest rate demanded by the government for paying for only 6 months' tax rather than the full year - so I refuse to do this on principal.
Incidentally did you realise that when you apply for a refund of duty eg when selling the car, you only get the amount based on the 12-monthly rate not the 6-monthly rate, even if you are returning a 6-month disc. Talk about daylight robbery.....
new tax disc laws - Steve G
It will only effect the forgetful law abiding motorist.
If you drive a car which you dont bother to register or insure it wont effect you at all.
new tax disc laws - martint123
Ivor, if you're on holiday, then you can tax it 6 weeks in advance

www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/vehlicnc.htm#2.%20%20How%...e
You may apply to relicense the vehicle by post up to six weeks in advance, to a Head Post Office. If you give an address abroad, the licence can be sent to you there. You can also apply by post or in person at a DVLA Local Office. When relicensing at either a post office or DVLA Local Office, you will need to provide a letter to accompany your application explaining why you are applying so far ahead.

Steve,
If you drive a car which you dont bother to register or insure it wont effect you at all.

It may help to ensure that a seller sends of the V5 bit as it will be the registered keeper that gets the fine.
new tax disc laws - Hugo {P}
Hmmm...

Instead of actually bringing the main perpetrators, who deliberately drive with no Tax, insurance or MOT or just a selection of the above, will no doubt continue to be above the law, whilst honest joe public, who may be overworked or stressed etc trying to make ends meet due to the other stealth taxes that Mr Brown introduces, has a hefty fine imposed for an honest oversight.

I don't object to this measure in principle, but it MUST be accompanied by a get tough policy on persistant VED evaders. Confiscating their cars is a joke, as most are not roadworthy in the first place - no a mandatory prison sentance for tax evasion is too kind to these lowlives.

On that note, a happy new year to you all! Now where did I put that reminder.....

Hugo
new tax disc laws - Imagos
ok ok points taken but maybe the whole disc system needs a total overhaul or abolishing altogether but how do we replace it? yes i'm fed up of taxing my car on time every time and seeing lots of cars about with out of date discs i agree there's no easy answer, but how do they do it in other countries? I still think though its a case of no disc no excuses..
new tax disc laws - lezer
I thought the fuel escalater tax introduced by the last government was to get rid of ved, they started with vehicles over 25 years old being exempt!! When the present government got in, they kept the escalater tax in but stopped vehicles over 25 being exemped.

new tax disc laws - HF
Oh no not again! I'm almost certain a similar thing happened to me a year ago, and I'm even more certain that I moaned on here about it.

Went out New Year's Eve to get my new tax disc. Everything, and I mean *everything*, had closed up early - lord knows what time. Ok so I can understand that *everyone* has the right to a NY break, but it meant, as a law-abiding, trying-to-get-my-tax citizen, that the beloved Astra has had to be illegal today, (it was not driven) and will be until I can get to the Post Office tomorrow.

I expect that for the first time in 14 years of living at this address, tomorrow a.m. will see an influx of tax disc inspectors in my street.
new tax disc laws - Imagos
so why oh why HF did you leave it till the last minute??? if you got done you've no one to blame but yourself. maybe a reminder a month prior to renewal instead of 2 weeks would have helped. Why do we need to go to post offices in the 21'st century why cant we have direct debits. The tax disc system in the UK hasn't hardly changed since 1903 now's the time for some serious overhaul and a foolproof system that will not let the lowlife evaders get away with it and not penalise the law abiding tax disc payer.
new tax disc laws - runboy
Just to check my understanding (and maybe that of others who have posted):

1. The DVLA will now automatically send out fines to people who have not renewed their VEL on time. They don't know until someone tells them that you have not displayed your newly aquired VEL. So no automatic fines from the DVLA for not displaying a valid VEL.

2. The police are now turning to automatic number plate recognition to catch known people-this includes out of date and not renewed VEL. The hi-tech equipment can not detect the fact you are not displaying your newly aquired VEL. With so few police walking about the streets, I doubt no one will ever notice!

3. The DVLA do allow you a period of grace-at least 14 days after expiry. So over the Christmas and New Year period, anyone collecting their new VEL in early January will not be shot at dawn.

What do people think about road tax being put on petrol? Trouble is, the low-lifes just drive away without paying anyway!
new tax disc laws - Welliesorter
What do people think about road tax being put on petrol?


Of course it already is. I wonder how much would have to be added to the price of a litre to enable the tax disc to be abolished. On the face of it, taxing fuel is a fairer system as you pay according to the amount you use. There'd be protests from country dwellers who may need to cover more miles than townies. I suppose you'd also get complaints from owners of lawnmowers, and petrol-engined weed cutters.

On the subject of displaying things, why not have some sort of visible insurance document? I believe they have these in Ireland.
new tax disc laws - henry k
Just to check my understanding (and maybe that of others who
have posted):

>>

DVLA says
tinyurl.com/22t96
new tax disc laws - Phil I
>Why do we need to go to post offices in the 21'st century

You can send by post to Local MVL office 2/3 days max.
new tax disc laws - Rob the Bus {P}
so why oh why HF did you leave it till the
last minute??? if you got done you've no one to blame
but yourself. maybe a reminder a month prior to renewal instead
of 2 weeks would have helped.


imagosuk,

It has nothing at all to do with forgetting to tax the car, but everything to do with being on a low wage and having to find money for Christmas presents for mine and HF's children, as well as paying all the other bills and unexpected expenses that have cropped up recently (tyres, batteries etc).

Sadly, I cannot stipulate my pay-date and it so happened that it was New Year's Eve.

I agree that, basically, it will be our fault if HF gets done, but please remember that not everybody is in the position of having the money ready to hand as soon as it is needed.

I would hazard a guess that, under this system, very few hard-core evaders will get caught. Instead it will be people like us, who are strapped for cash this year, or who genuinely forget due to other stresses/worries.

There is a Bedford Rascal parked a few doors down with an "03 00" expiry date on the disc. I doubt very much whether this will get caught under the new scheme...

Cheers

Rob
new tax disc laws - Imagos
rob the bus>

yes i understand about being strapped for cash perhaps payment system could be changed to a scheme simular to the tv licence say 10 monthly payments aka direct debit. I didn't realise till today either that you can buy tax disc stamps at a post office and affix to a card then present this along with your application on renewal. Not sure of the value of stamps that you can buy but if you visit a post office regulary i'm sure it would be a great help to a lot of people who dont know this method exists..
new tax disc laws - Rob the Bus {P}
I didn't realise till
today either that you can buy tax disc stamps at a
post office and affix to a card then present this along
with your application on renewal. Not sure of the value of
stamps that you can buy but if you visit a post
office regulary i'm sure it would be a great help to
a lot of people who dont know this method exists..


I, too, had no idea that you could pay by this method. Seems a touch antediluvian though, when you consider the leaps and bounds made in payment technology. Why can't they have a swipe card, like a phone top-up card which could be used at PayPoint locations. You simply roll up with a tenner and ask them to add it to your card. Any amount stored on it is then knocked off the amount to pay when it comes to car-tax time. This way, you could top-up at all manner of places, not just post offices.

Cheers

Rob
new tax disc laws - pdc {P}
I transfer £10 each month to a seperate bank account to cover the yearly cost of VED. I do this with other amounts that can only be paid yearly too, so in a sense I am paying on a monthly basis.
new tax disc laws - trancer
"i'm fed up of taxing my car on time every time and seeing lots of cars about with out of date discs i agree there's no easy answer, but how do they do it in other countries?"

In the US the closest thing to the tax disc would be vehicle registration. This needs to be renewed yearly, no 6 month option and no refund if removing car from road use (you do get "credit" applied to next car registration though). You can only renew registration at DMV (DVLA) locations which are ridiculously crowded and through mail and internet credit card transactions. Taxing a car is much easier here in the UK, even if it is 5 times more expensive than what I was paying in Florida. You still get people driving without it and it is usually a fixed fine ticket if caught by the police. No automated fines or number plate recognition gizmos.
new tax disc laws - CG
Trancer,

You, like me and a lot of others, are obviously fed up with faithfully taxing your own car but seeing loads of others getting away with it. The remedy is quite simple - contact the DVLA at mailto:unlic.dvla@gtnet.gov.uk with the details of what/where/when and they will action your report. Of course, some of those vehicles will not have been registered correctly or at all - but those that have been will be chased up. I had a problem with cars parked near where I live - most were untaxed/expired and I got fed up with seeing this continue. The local plod didn\'t want to know so I tried the above action. All bar one are now taxed up to date so it probably does work.

I simply don\'t understand the reported reactions of the AA and RAC - how is their resistance assisting their law-abiding members I wonder???

I agree with transferring VEL to fuel so that everyone using a vehicle will have to pay. £200m is a lot of dosh not to collect! Arrangements would have to be made for exempt vehicles but they will be a tiny number in comparison with the rest. Where there\'s a will........

CG

PS The fine is £40 if paid within 28 days.
new tax disc laws - Imagos
i didn't realise there was an email adress to report offenders thanks that'll be going into my address book!
new tax disc laws - No Do$h
I have updated CG\'s post so you should only need to click on the address to send an email to DVLA.

If you want to post an email address add the word MAILTO: immediately in front of the email details. This will post the address as an email link.

Make sure that you use lower case only for the word MAILTO (I\'ve used upper so that the word appears on this page), don\'t forget the colon and don\'t put a space between the colon and the address.
new tax disc laws - James_Jameson
The French manage without road tax.

They abolished it, I believe, approximately a couple of years ago.
new tax disc laws - cockle {P}
The French manage without road tax.
They abolished it, I believe, approximately a couple of years ago.

>>

Sounds like a little EU harmonisation wouldn't go amiss in this case, then!

Arrgh, that's another resolution gone, wasn't supposed to mention the E word....

Cockle
new tax disc laws - Pugugly {P}

"If you drive a car which you dont bother to register or insure it wont effect you at all"

In the spirit of the Season "Oh yes it will"

Pass an ANPR static or mobile and the Rossers will take the greatest delight in doing you. PNC carries tax disc expiry details.

However superb the DVLA's supercomputer is it cannot tell whether
a car is displaying a tax disc or not, what it can tell is whether you taxed your car or not. DVLA quite politely remind you when its due its up to you to buy it if you don't expect to be done. Quite simple.

The registred keeper of the Bedford Rascal will get done under the new scheme. The other option is to report this to your Enviromental Health Department and have it removed as an abadnoned car.

The only issue I have with the new regs is that there is no right of appeal. (i.e. I was in hosptial etc), I am certain that this isn't compliant with Human Rights protocols. I look forward to challenging them.


new tax disc laws - malteser
Why does one have to pay tax at all to drive on public roads? We know that all taxes for everything taxable go into the same pot which then pays for everything.
VED, fuel taxes,congestion charges and road/bridge tolls are really unfair levies on the less well off in society, depriving them of the mobility enjoyed by the affluent!
..........................................................
"Rude, crude and socially unacceptable"
new tax disc laws - cockle {P}
The only issue I have with the new regs is that
there is no right of appeal. (i.e. I was in hosptial
etc), I am certain that this isn't compliant with Human Rights
protocols. I look forward to challenging them.



Hey, PU, is that you touting for business!

See, give you a few days off and you start getting withdrawal symptoms and start champing at the bit!

Cockle
new tax disc laws - Imagos
after reading all the posts i still think its a case of no disc no excuses, but for one part.
yes i agree now there maybe some pretty exceptional circumstances so no right of appeal is wrong.
you'd have to be pretty unlucky to be in hospital for over a month when your tax expires but i accept it DOES happen.
new tax disc laws - patently
i didn't realise there was an email adress to report offenders
thanks that'll be going into my address book!


Don't bother.

We park on a local road to deliver the little one to nursery. It's busy - there aren't many parking spaces so there are yellow lines limiting you to 2 hours only. So its a bit galling to see several vehicles parked in the same company livery, all untaxed, all of which stay there for days, typically (we pass regularly).

I have repeatedly told all of:

local council

local plods

DVLA (including submission of a witness statement with my address - scary!)

about this and made clear the offenders are persistent and making life harder for those of us that are legal. All three expressed their thanks and said they would do something.

None have ever replied to me. Nothing happened to the vehicles. Nothing has changed.
new tax disc laws - Dalglish
>> i didn't realise there was an email adress to report
offenders
>> thanks that'll be going into my address book!
>>
Don't bother.

>> None have ever replied to me. Nothing happened to the
vehicles. Nothing has changed.


solution: write to one or all
chief constable
alistair darling
local mp
chief of your council
on second thoughts write to all and copy to tony b liar.
new tax disc laws - Dalglish
As per usual a new tax disc law has been introduced
on the quiet, the 80 quid fine for not having a
valid disc. Surely this is a long overdue law or am
i missing something?The AA dont seem to impressed.I think its a
fair cop no disc no excuses! after all you have a
2 week reminder, or am i being too harsh?
or are we being penalised for being just forgetfull.... or lazy.


this was discussed by other backroom boys before. you was warned in advance. so no excuse for not knowing law if you visit backroom regular.

moonshine
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=17...7
said "It looks like even getting your tax a day late will incur a fine. "

rob-the-bus has no defense. like him, i is skint and have nowt dosh. but i learn to budget since watching american alvin money guru on bbc2. now i have dosh for car insurance mot service
rac and ved. no dosh mean no car.
new tax disc laws - No Do$h
rob-the-bus has no defense. like him, i is skint and have
nowt dosh. but i learn to budget since watching american alvin
money guru on bbc2. now i have dosh for car insurance
mot service
rac and ved. no dosh mean no car.


Oy! I resent that remark I do.
new tax disc laws - Rob the Bus {P}
rob-the-bus has no defense. like him, i is skint and have
nowt dosh. but i learn to budget since watching american alvin
money guru on bbc2. now i have dosh for car insurance
mot service
rac and ved. no dosh mean no car.


Dalglish,

All the budgeting and forward planning in the world cannot help you when the batteries on both cars (£70 and £110) fail, two tyres are mysteriously - and irreperably - deflated (another £70) and our fridge packs in (£200). All within the space of a fortnight. Add that to the impending Christmas pressie fest and we were left somewhat short for HF's car tax.

Terribly sorry for not having the ability to foretell the future. Maybe your "american alvin guru on bbc2" does lessons in clairvoyance?

Cheers

Rob
new tax disc laws - Dalglish
hey rob.the.bus sorry i dont mean to be personal and sorry because i dont mean to cause no offense.
i think if i am skint with no dosh then means no car.
but you or HF not to worry because see another posting heading reminder re your excise license by dwight van driver and by no-dosh.
there the lawyer expert say there is 28 days grace if my simple enlgish is not mistaken. but only if you dont use car on public road.
so i think HF will not get £80 fine?? unless dwight and no-dosh tell you different.

new tax disc laws - Imagos
yes everyone has unexpected bills even more reason to have new system ie. 12 monthly direct debit.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Thommo
An old guy I know has a rather nice car sitting under a dust sheet in his gargae. He wants to get rid and has asked me if I am interested. Car has not been taxed or MOTed (and has not moved) for 2 years. He (like many people) has never heard of SORN and the car is not SORNed.

I am interested and would buy the car get it running and tax and MOT it. Now, as I understand it the registered keeper is now liable for the tax on the car whether he owns it or not.

If I buy it and transfer it in to my name, I presume that I must SORN it immediatley and tax it in due course (when I have the MOT).

Question.

Could I be made liable in any way for the failure to tax it in the past?

Speculation.

Assuming they do not go after me, will my SORNing (or taxing) it, flag up to the powers that be that it has not been taxed/SORNed for the past two years and increase the chances that the old boy will get done for his ommission?

I would welcome comments...

PS. My mate has no less than 3 vehicles (2 motorbikes, 1 car) in his garage that have not been taxed or SORNed for 3 years+, I can not convince him that this is a problem.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Dwight Van Driver
Funny as SORN is an annual event that the old chap has not been sent retax/SORN papers from DVLA on the anniversary of the date of expiry of the old Licence.

If there was no Licence in force for the vehicle on 31.1.1998 (N. Ireland 30.11.2002) and

No Licence has been taken out since and

The Vehicle has not been used on a public road, then

SORN does not apply. Your 2 years does not allow this exemption unless you are in NI.

So if you buy then attach a SORN declaration (download from DVLA site on Web) with V5 when you notify change of ownership, and SORN every year from that date or until such time as you intend to use on a road when you will re-license. As a new owner you cannot be held responsible for Excise matters before purchase.

Now what to do with the old chap? Openess, for we all hate fiddlers and truth will out,so compose a letter for him that he was the owner, sold it to you and that he did not understand because of his age (?) the implications of SORN and ask for forgiveness.

DVD
Tax discs SORN and the law - martint123
I'd suspect the old guy's "two years" could have been "a few years"??. if, as DVD says, it has not been taxed since 31/1/98 then you and he are ok. The DVLA site indicates that there is no need to declare SORN until the car has 'entered the system' by being taxed.
Tax discs SORN and the law - king arthur
SORN does have to be declared annually, but I seem to recall reading that DVLA would not send you a reminder to do this, you just have to remember yourself.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Cliff Pope
They do send a reminder - I have just had one.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Dynamic Dave
Yep, with every reminder, the envelope will also have a leaflet informing of SORN inside. Like most things though, people treat these leaflets as junk mail and just discard without reading them.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Thommo
Thank you all for the help.

What I think I will do is SORN it with the V5 as DVD advises and see if the authorities come back. If they do I will (hopefully) sort it for him.

Definitely 2 years because he was active and mobile up to 2 years ago when he got mugged by 4 thugs in the nearby town. Since then he never leaves the village and rarely leaves his house. Sad but true.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Dwight Van Driver
Whilst on the subject of Excise Licence, two interesting points that you may not yet be aware of:

From January 2004 after notifying DVLA that you have disposed of a vehicle an acknowledgement letter will be sent by DVLA proving you are no longer responsible for taxing the vehicle.

Keep this letter in a safe place. I would suspect there might be implications for without it they may hold you responsible for infringements by the new owner if he does not notify acquisition/tax the vehicle. The letter could also help if you start to amass speeding/parking tickets after disposal of your vehicle.

Misplaced your VE5 Registration Document? From February 2004 there will be a charge for replacement. (Change of details will still be free).

There has been a general tightening up of Registration and Licensing so if you do not deal with matters expeditiously then expect a financial penalty.

DVD
Tax discs SORN and the law - Dalglish
from 1st january 2004

from now on you have to keep document to prove you are not the registered keeper of vehicle that you have sold or disposed of.

i see from dvla web site you now need 2 docs to prove your id before you can register as vehicle keeper.
Tax discs SORN and the law - martint123
I'd not noticed that before - unless they've just slipped it in!

The new car tax (vehicle licensing) rules mean that from 1 January 2004 the registered keeper of a vehicle (the person named on DVLA's record) remains responsible for taxing a vehicle (or making a SORN declaration) until that liability is formally transferred to a new keeper. To avoid liability for taxing it, the keeper needs to inform DVLA when the vehicle is sold, transferred, scrapped or exported. Once DVLA has been notified about a sale/transfer we will issue an acknowledgement letter, which should be kept as proof that the vehicle record has been changed.
Tax discs SORN and the law - Dalglish
I'd not noticed that before - unless they've just slipped it
in!


dvla ref
www.dvla.gov.uk/newrules/reg_vehicles.htm

From 1 January 2004, if you are registering your vehicle on form V55/4 or V55/5 you will need to produce documentation confirming both your name and address. This new procedure has been introduced to ensure that keeper details provided at the time of registration are genuine, thereby preventing the fraudulent registration of vehicles. Name and address checks are required on all V55/4 and V55/5 applications.

Documents Required
In order to license and register your vehicle using V55/4 or V55/5 you must provide, along with your application, either your DVLA photocard driving licence or one original document from each of the lists below. Copies are unacceptable.
Reminder re your Excise Licence - Dalglish
Deuce PU
Says Using (first) or keeping.....
DVD


eh??? lawyers!!!!
now more confused than ever!!!!
Reminder re your Excise Licence - expat
>how do they do it in other countries.
Here in Western Australia you can pay your vehicle rego over the Internet by credit card, by cheque through the post or in person at the local shire office in the country or at a Vehicle Licencing Centre in the city. Third party personal insurance is included in the registration but not third party property. ie I hit Joe Blow in his Mercedes and he is injured. Motor vehicle insurance trust pays Joes injuries but he sues me or my insurance company for the damage to his Merc. 12 months rego costs A$458.45 for my Mazda 323 1.6. When renewing rego no need to produce licence, insurance or anything else other than money.
We also have no MOT. If the police think your car is unroadworthy they give it a yellow sticker. You cannot take that off without incurring a huge penalty. You must take the car to an inspection centre and it gets a real tough going over.
97,000 motorists fined £80 - Dalglish
97,000 motorists fined £80

"Thousands of drivers who failed to renew their tax discs will receive an £80 penalty in the post on Monday under a new enforcement scheme.
The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) says 97,000 penalties are being issued to UK motorists whose discs expired at the end of December."

from bbc news

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3511714.stm



97,000 motorists fined £80 - GolfR_Caravelle_S-Max
97,000 x £80
Wow. £7.2 Million. Potentially a month.
I wonder how that will be used.
As long as it's motoring related, it's a valid discussion.
I wonder how over-budget the computer system was?
97,000 motorists fined £80 - henry k
DVLA Press release

tinyurl.com/37wxx

It states "there are nearly 200,000 more taxed vehicles on our roads which are now safe and legal"
I smell a rat! - frostbite
A large Brown one in fact. Unless I am mistaken, this years budget is somewhat earlier than usual, meaning that any changes will take effect much sooner. I notice because I have timed my annual VEL renewal (starting April) so that I can usually avoid any increase for a year.

Not this year though! My renewal form has only arrived today and I don't have time to do the deed today. So, I have a nasty feeling that I/we will be paying considerably more to fund the expeditions out East that have left Gordon short of brass.
I smell a rat! - Mapmaker
No, he's merely gone back to a more sensible date. Often items are announced in the budget which relate to the relevant tax year (e.g. income tax bands) which runs with effect from 6th April. If he doesn't have his budget until mid-April, employers don't get the information they require for calculating PAYE until after the start of the period to which it applies. Mid March is rather more traditional. Moving to a Wednesday, as he did in 2001 was a break with recent tradition when it had been on a Tuesday.

2004: Weds 17 March
2003: Weds 9 April
2002: Weds 17 April
2001: Weds 7 March
2000: Tues 21 March

Must fill the car tonight.
I smell a rat! - pdc {P}
It does amuse me that people fill up their tanks just because it's budget day. Say 2p goes on a litre, then for me, to fill the tank, I'll be paying an extra £1.20. Hardly breaking the bank now is it?
The Tax Disc (VED) thread vol 1 - BrianW
Closely related is the issue of tolls.

If tolls were to be charged at the rate of 10p per mile then that would work out at £3.50 per gallon on a 35 mpg vehicle.

Or 77p per litre.

Effectively doubling the price of petrol.

Please tell me my maths are wrong!
 

Value my car